Talk about Customer Service

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

I put my story on paper about my BMW 296 Wheels, just see my signature below

so much for the ...

"The Ultimate Driving Machine" .... "A Company of Ideas" .... "Sheer Driving Pleasure” .... “Joy is Driving” .... or .... “ Joy is Pleasure"

I hope you folks never ever have this kind of problems.

Cheers,

Rolf-Dieter

[jmelong]

Rolf,

I have been enjoying your posts for a long time, and this accounting of your cracked wheel debacle was well done.

What a shame that a company like BMW would stoop to such low levels of Customer "dis-service" just to save the price of a new wheel. What a shame, but not surprising. If anyone at BMW that really cares would look at this, the obvious outcome would have to be.... for the price of a $600 wheel, we have now brought down upon us a million dollars in bad publicity. You would think that after the HPFP debacle, and trying to cover that up for YEARS, that BMW would have learned their lesson. Apparently not.

[Land_Shark]

I am sorry to hear that Rolf-Dieter... If I were you, I wouldn't fold the book... Did you write to BMW Germany? They will need to understand how their dealer in the Us/Canada was dealing with an obvious problem thT BMW has, acknowledge and not sure are working on solving it... Very disappointing BMW NA!!!

[HerrK]

Rolf,

Did you ever determine the root cause of the failure. Fatigue or Fracture. Either is a viable cause. Fatigue in a highly stressed material with a surface flaw (stress riser) near the point of failure. Fracture with a impact load and sudden failure due to substate flaws or improper material selection.

I'd assume a "brittle fracture" When a part is overloaded and breaks with no visible distortion. This can happen because the material is very brittle, such as gray cast iron or hardened steel, or when a load is applied extremely rapidly to a normally ductile part. There are some instances where brittle fractures appear in normally ductile materials (aluminum). This indicates that the load was applied very rapidly, such that a severe shock load on the most ductile piece can cause it to fracture like glass.

So assumming a "Brittle Fracture" the two types are "Transgranular" & "Intergranular"

Transgranular fracture where a fracture crack passes through grains. Fracture surfaces have faceted texture because of different orientation of cleavage planes in grains. Resulting from "Improper material selection for design criteria"

Intergrannular fracture where the fracture crack propagation is along grain boundaries (grain boundaries are weakened or embrittled by impurities segregation, etc) - Resulting from manufacturing "Bad casting"

In either case BMW would be liable, did you present them with any evidence of the type of failure.

[Vintage]

I love reading the posts from the knowledgeable people here; I just wish I could meaningfully contribute

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by jmelong

Rolf,

I have been enjoying your posts for a long time, and this accounting of your cracked wheel debacle was well done.

What a shame that a company like BMW would stoop to such low levels of Customer "dis-service" just to save the price of a new wheel. What a shame, but not surprising. If anyone at BMW that really cares would look at this, the obvious outcome would have to be.... for the price of a $600 wheel, we have now brought down upon us a million dollars in bad publicity. You would think that after the HPFP debacle, and trying to cover that up for YEARS, that BMW would have learned their lesson. Apparently not.

Thank you for your post jmelong,

It is not the money to me it is the principal of the matter. I am out off pocket over $800- Canadian (counting the tie shop wheel installation and hotel). Not to speak of the inconvenience factor.

It looks like as someone already stated the company no longer is run by knowledgeable people. I've come to that conclusion from the way this was handled from start to finish.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by Land_Shark

I am sorry to hear that Rolf-Dieter... If I were you, I wouldn't fold the book... Did you write to BMW Germany? They will need to understand how their dealer in the Us/Canada was dealing with an obvious problem thT BMW has, acknowledge and not sure are working on solving it... Very disappointing BMW NA!!!

I am folding the book, I need to put this behind me. It has been a very disappointing ordeal. However, I don't mind talking about this if it serves it's purpose to bring to light what goes on in BMW Customer Relations (as they call it). I have the feeling that all the details I've provided to BMW Customer Relations have been totally ignored.

Fact I copied both the US and Canadian Customer Relations Departments with my last e-mail and all I get back is a standard automated message like the one I attach below (I only "X" out ID information for obvious reasons).

From: XXXXXX XXXX, Mgr. <CustomerRelations@bmwusa.com>
Subject: Your BMW Correspondence [1-1773577334]
Date: February 10, 2011 2:03:07 PM EST
To: Rolf-Dieter XXXXXXX <XXXXXXX@XXXXXX.com>

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC.

We received the correspondence that you have copied to our company. If you are seeking further assistance please contact the Customer Relations and Services Department.

The BMW Customer Relations and Services Department is available Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. You can reach us at 1-800-831-1117.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX XXXXXX
Customer Relations and Services
Representative

The above was a reply to a lengthily e-mail I posted to the Canadian BMW Dealership. As can be seen no one reads or is interested in what we have to say.

[Vintage]

are you guys trying to wind me up on a beautiful Friday??? trust me, I could fill volumes on this issue between BMW wrecking my wife's e89 in port after ED and not telling us, and then refusing to warrant the HPFP. I will spare you all as I have cried many a word on other posts on this site regarding these issues

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by HerrK

Rolf,

Did you ever determine the root cause of the failure. Fatigue or Fracture. Either is a viable cause. Fatigue in a highly stressed material with a surface flaw (stress riser) near the point of failure. Fracture with a impact load and sudden failure due to substate flaws or improper material selection.

I'd assume a "brittle fracture" When a part is overloaded and breaks with no visible distortion. This can happen because the material is very brittle, such as gray cast iron or hardened steel, or when a load is applied extremely rapidly to a normally ductile part. There are some instances where brittle fractures appear in normally ductile materials (aluminum). This indicates that the load was applied very rapidly, such that a severe shock load on the most ductile piece can cause it to fracture like glass.

So assumming a "Brittle Fracture" the two types are "Transgranular" & "Intergranular"

Transgranular fracture where a fracture crack passes through grains. Fracture surfaces have faceted texture because of different orientation of cleavage planes in grains. Resulting from "Improper material selection for design criteria"

Intergrannular fracture where the fracture crack propagation is along grain boundaries (grain boundaries are weakened or embrittled by impurities segregation, etc) - Resulting from manufacturing "Bad casting"

In either case BMW would be liable, did you present them with any evidence of the type of failure.

Thank you for your post HerrK,

I did think about it a lot. After all it has been my life's work (failure analysis and hands on field service). I was going to cut out a V-Section of the wheel (in the area of the crack and one in an are where there is no crack). Then have detailed Finite Analysis performed to determine the route cause of the failure. I may still have this done once I get the wheel back from the Canadian BMW Dealership. However, from the interest that has been shown me on this issue I wonder if it is all worth the effort. I may feel different about this next week or next month. I do know the right people from my past 25 years being self employed in the mechanical engineering field.

To me it is crystal clear, I think I talked about it in other posts. The wheels on the rear axel have a 2.5 degree chamber, the RFT with reenforced sidewall (steel sheets in the sidewall - Bridgestone now is on Generation 3 adding cooling fins to the RFT sidewall). Every time one drives over the slightest bump in the road forces are transmitted to the inner wheel rim (stresses build up). Some day those stresses have to go some place and eventually in my humble opinion end up as a crack. First a hairline crack then the crack opens more and more then a flat tire will follow. In short layman terms it is like the paperclip, you can end that paper clip so many times only then it will snap.

Right now I am to disappointed at the final outcome to do anything else.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

I love reading the posts from the knowledgeable people here; I just wish I could meaningfully contribute

Love your bike btw, very nice. I had one just before I left Germany at age 20. It was a BMW 250 CC as I recall loved it.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

are you guys trying to wind me up on a beautiful Friday??? trust me, I could fill volumes on this issue between BMW wrecking my wife's e89 in port after ED and not telling us, and then refusing to warrant the HPFP. I will spare you all as I have cried many a word on other posts on this site regarding these issues

Yes Vintage, I remember those posts...

At least our diesels are going strong!!! They are aren't they?

[juhap]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

trust me, I could fill volumes on this issue between BMW wrecking my wife's e89 in port after ED and not telling us, and then refusing to warrant the HPFP. I will spare you all as I have cried many a word on other posts on this site regarding these issues

Oh how I wish others followed your example. If I blocked all the threads that mention the 296 issue, there would be very little left to read here.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by juhap

Oh how I wish others followed your example. If I blocked all the threads that mention the 296 issue, there would be very little left to read here.

One can do that ... Block Threads? Would that not be like an Ostridge sticking his head in the sand?

[Vintage]

I will admit, the X5 diesel has been amazing - zero problems with 30,000 miles. It truly makes me want to run out and buy a 335d; now that car really gets up and moves. Hopefully the 2012 models X5 and 335d will switch over to the X5 40d and 340d respectively with the 8 speed transmission and a little more power. I think for the 3 series highway MPG would approach 40 with no problem.

[skier219]

Sorry to hear about this, but I am not really surprised. In many years on car forums, and through my own experience, I have only seen one car company consistently step up and do the right thing, and that was Subaru. Their US customer service group seems to be staffed by normal, sensible, caring people. Every other company I have dealt with or have read about on forums has behaved like BMW in this case.

What bugs me the most, and what I saw in your story as well Rolf, is how idiotic they are with customer service, record keeping, paperwork, etc. It's like they try to fail their way out of paying up. And what they don't fail at is replaced by stonewall tactics. It's almost an art form, as if they are trained to work this way to avoid payouts.

We had one particular warranty experience with Honda, to the tune of $2500 unreimbursed, that has completely soured me on that brand (despite having owned several Acuras that were trouble free and having a lot of genuine respect/love for the S2000). I'll be damned if they get any more of my business. Though our tastes have moved a bit upmarket since my Subaru days, I am seriously thinking about going back to Subaru next time we need a new ski car. Their AWD is hard to beat anyhow, in any price range.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by skier219

Sorry to hear about this, but I am not really surprised. In many years on car forums, and through my own experience, I have only seen one car company consistently step up and do the right thing, and that was Subaru. Their US customer service group seems to be staffed by normal, sensible, caring people. Every other company I have dealt with or have read about on forums has behaved like BMW in this case.

What bugs me the most, and what I saw in your story as well Rolf, is how idiotic they are with customer service, record keeping, paperwork, etc. It's like they try to fail their way out of paying up. And what they don't fail at is replaced by stonewall tactics. It's almost an art form, as if they are trained to work this way to avoid payouts.

We had one particular warranty experience with Honda, to the tune of $2500 unreimbursed, that has completely soured me on that brand (despite having owned several Acuras that were trouble free and having a lot of genuine respect/love for the S2000). I'll be damned if they get any more of my business. Though our tastes have moved a bit upmarket since my Subaru days, I am seriously thinking about going back to Subaru next time we need a new ski car. Their AWD is hard to beat anyhow, in any price range.

I know how you feel ... BMW will not get my new car dollar anymore ether.

We just traded our family car for the 2011 Mercedes C 350 4MATIC and 2 of my close friends will also move over to Mercedes.

[rmorin49]

Rolf, I feel your pain as I had a problem with the folding hardtop in an 07 335i vert. After several letters and phone calls to both BMW AG and BMWNA, they did negotiate a buyback and ordered an 09 335i vert as a replacement. I used it as a trade from my '10 Z4 and it worked out very well in the end. That said, my next German car is likely to be an Audi.

[Land_Shark]

Audi????
I understand BMW NA is not doing a good job... Their customer services seem to fail you.
I would bring it all the way to BMW Germany if I am firm on my rights, but will not just switch to Audi just to voice to BMW that I am not satisfied with their After sale service... but that's me of course...

[HerrK]

Originally Posted by Land_Shark

Audi????
I understand BMW NA is not doing a good job... Their customer services seem to fail you.
I would bring it all the way to BMW Germany if I am firm on my rights, but will not just switch to Audi just to voice to BMW that I am not satisfied with their After sale service... but that's me of course...

+1000. I buy my vehicles on the merit & features for the particlar vehicle I am looking to acquire at the time. If you buy/lease a new car every year from the same dealer, assuming they don't change ownership, you will likely get the red carpet treatment from the local personnel. Join & search the Audi & MB forums you will run across similar dealer/MBUSA customer service dissatisfaction complaints.