colder weather=noisier roof?

[tranquility]

I've noticed that as the temperature drops, I'm starting to hear what seems to be the seals of the roof (mostly the gaps from the top and bottom of the rear window part) rubbing against the rest of the car: is this normal due to the rubber seals hardening up, I suppose?

[BMWZ4]

Hi Tranquility, hope all is well with you!

Funny, my roof rattles & squeaks happened with the opposite weather conditions (super hot / sunny days with the sun beating down on the roof for a few hours). On cooler days, not a sound.

At any rate, got tired of the noises and took it by the dealer and they tightened up a few things and never had the noises again!

Dave

[Constant.S]

I had a similiar problem but with no extreme weather conditions (extreme heat or cold). I Took the car to the dealer and they checked it out and applied some sort of silicone lube (i think silicone, not sure) all over the rubber seals.

[teagueAMX]

It's Gummi Pflege

AutoGeek has it and you can do a search on the net for it.

http://www.autogeek.net/1z-einszett-...are-stick.html

.

[tranquility]

Thanks a lot guys. I'll make sure to check it out!

[teagueAMX]

It's BMW original product for weatherstripping and seals.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

It's BMW original product for weatherstripping and seals.

Thanks Lion King, I'll remember to ask the dealer.

[teagueAMX]

You're welcome

[cdeslandes]

I've applied Gummi Pflege once so far, and no roof rattle or air leak of any kind even in 30° F/-1° C weather.

[///carbon]

Originally Posted by cdeslandes

I've applied Gummi Pflege once so far, and no roof rattle or air leak of any kind even in 30° F/-1° C weather.

really? i have that noise too and it's a pain in the as*...

i will try this too!! THANK YOU GUYS!!

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by ///carbon

really? i have that noise too and it's a pain in the as*...

i will try this too!! THANK YOU GUYS!!

No prob.

FYI - it's my understanding that BMW does not recommend using a silicone on the seals and weatherstrip, and I can second that from own experience.

[///carbon]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

No prob.

FYI - it's my understanding that BMW does not recommend using a silicone on the seals and weatherstrip, and I can second that from own experience.

just ordered it for 13 eur.

4 eur the product and 9 eur shipping. lol

[teagueAMX]

Go figure - shipping cost more than the product.

[skier219]

There is a grease Honda sells called "Shin Etsu Grease", which is a white silicone grease (very much like a dielectric grease). It's recommended for window/door gaskets. On my S2000 hardtop, I apply a thin smear of Shin Etsu along the lower gasket of the hardtop each winter before putting it on, and it effectively silences any noise between the top and the car that might occur as the rubber hardens up in the cold and rubs/chafes. I imagine a similar strategy would work well on the Z4. With the top partially up, it should be easy to see/access the gaskets that press down on the rear deck when the top is down. A light rub of Shin Etsu (similar to applying chapstick to your lips) will do the trick.

BTW, while I have heard that silicone spray is not recommended for automotive gaskets and seals, the grease is. Not sure what the difference is. I can say that this silicone grease is a lot cleaner and nicer to work with than typical petroleum-based grease, and doesn't smell like grease. Wherever you see a translucent white grease used on a car, it's likely this stuff. In addition to being used for lubrication in precision mechanisms, it's great for all kinds of applications, including electrical and wiring work where you want to protect raw conductors or connectors from moisture and corrosion.

You can find Shin Etsu many places online. A tube is $10-15.

[Constant.S]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

No prob.

FYI - it's my understanding that BMW does not recommend using a silicone on the seals and weatherstrip, and I can second that from own experience.

Yep, cause silicone dry's out and leaves a crust on certain types of rubber or plastic which ends up drying them out and make them lose elasticity. My Ducati dealer told me that too about not treating my motorcycle with cheap silicone stuff.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by skier219

There is a grease Honda sells called "Shin Etsu Grease", which is a white silicone grease (very much like a dielectric grease). It's recommended for window/door gaskets. On my S2000 hardtop, I apply a thin smear of Shin Etsu along the lower gasket of the hardtop each winter before putting it on, and it effectively silences any noise between the top and the car that might occur as the rubber hardens up in the cold and rubs/chafes. I imagine a similar strategy would work well on the Z4. With the top partially up, it should be easy to see/access the gaskets that press down on the rear deck when the top is down. A light rub of Shin Etsu (similar to applying chapstick to your lips) will do the trick.

BTW, while I have heard that silicone spray is not recommended for automotive gaskets and seals, the grease is. Not sure what the difference is. I can say that this silicone grease is a lot cleaner and nicer to work with than typical petroleum-based grease, and doesn't smell like grease. Wherever you see a translucent white grease used on a car, it's likely this stuff. In addition to being used for lubrication in precision mechanisms, it's great for all kinds of applications, including electrical and wiring work where you want to protect raw conductors or connectors from moisture and corrosion.

You can find Shin Etsu many places online. A tube is $10-15.

That's interesting info.

A while back I was doing some research on this subject and ran into a websales/club forum (believe it was bavarian autosport) and one of the posts discussed a dialectic grease (note photo below) for use in this application, and I got pretty excited about it because you can get it virtually anywhere, unlike Gummi Pflege. However, as I read a few more posts in the same thread there were a number of folks that indicated it wasn't such a great thing after all.

I've heard this debate rage for a few years concerning silicone based products. It seems that a person would have to take a good look at the chemical compounds found in weather seals to figure out how they react with silicone, but frankly I'm no chemist so I'd be out of my element. On the other hand I'd feel quite comfortable recommending virtually any product Honda feels good about because those folks totally OCD.

Does it absorb into the material or does it form a barrier on top of the material?

.

[skier219]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Does it absorb into the material or does it form a barrier on top of the material?

To the eye, it seems to stay on top of the material -- but I'd suspect there is at least some level of absorption if the material is porous. My experience with Shin Etsu thus far in this scenario has been confined to the S2000 hardtop gasket material, which appears to be identical to the soft/floppy inner gaskets found on most car doors, and the gaskets around frameless windows on older Subarus I have owned. In both of those cases, it seems to sit on top of the material like a film of chapstick, and wipes off readily. When I remove my S2000 hardtop in the spring and wipe it down, the Shin Etsu comes off and doesn't seem to really leave a noticeable trace behind, on either the hardtop gasket or the mating surface on the car's rear deck.

If I had to contrast the behavior/performance compared to sprays I've used in the past, I'd say that the Shin Etsu grease ends up acting more like a greasy surface film than a penetrating liquid. It's likely due to the properties of a grease, which doesn't really flow very readily.

I do have a negative data point to share on silicone spray -- I remember using it on door gaskets of a car I owned in the 80s, on the recommendation of a friend. It did seem to go on nicely and make the rubber softer and more compliant, but within a few weeks it got super noisy. My conclusion then is that it caused the rubber to develop a sheen, which then got real noisy as it rubbed against painted surfaces of the car. I can't think of a good word to describe it, but it was kind of a no mans land between grippy and slippery that made a lot of noise. Sort of like sitting on one of those padded vinyl arm chairs that makes all sorts rude vinyl-on-vinyl noises as you settle in. Luckily I was able to wash the silicone off the gaskets with some soap.

[Constant.S]

So, i stopped by the Dealer today and asked specificly about the products for the rubber care of the car. He told me NOT use any generic aftermarket products even if they claim to be the factory approved ones, they might dry out the seals prematurely and cause future leaks and squeaks. He recomended getting the original BMW care product for that use which i did. You could argue about an aftermarket product being the same in a cheaper price but after all i did buy a BMW and not a KIA and im willing to pay some extra cash for the best product available
Here's the link of the product i got:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._showroom.html
You go to Cleaning and Care > Special Products. Its called Rubber Protectant.

[Memphis1]

my first service is monday, i'll tell them to put that on my seals.

[Dr Stig 2]

I actually hate putting my roof up, as it makes so much noise (rattles and creaks (not squeaks).
Mind you, I am a perfectionist, so I tend to give others too much slack when they dont live up to my expectations.

I have taken it in twice.
First time they lubed it and it was a bit quieter, but still a bit rattley, and the white lube they used was impossible to clean off my plastics and the visible rubber seals along the centre of the roof. Not happy Jan. (For the benefit of the international readers, this is an Australian saying, expressing extreme dissatisfaction)

Second time I noticed no improvement at all after they worked on it for a day.

This time I have told them to keep it in until it is rattle and creak free - or I wont buy the X5 they are trying to sell me. The ML is looking good...
It seems I need the leverage on them to get them to do they job properly.

Dont get me wrong - you guys provided the evidence that this car can be made properly, my dealer is just trying to save some effort and some of the warranty money by only doing the minimum they think they can get away with.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Constant.S

Here's the link of the product i got:
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle..._showroom.html
You go to Cleaning and Care > Special Products. Its called Rubber Protectant.

Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by skier219

To the eye, it seems to stay on top of the material -- but I'd suspect there is at least some level of absorption if the material is porous. My experience with Shin Etsu thus far in this scenario has been confined to the S2000 hardtop gasket material, which appears to be identical to the soft/floppy inner gaskets found on most car doors, and the gaskets around frameless windows on older Subarus I have owned. In both of those cases, it seems to sit on top of the material like a film of chapstick, and wipes off readily. When I remove my S2000 hardtop in the spring and wipe it down, the Shin Etsu comes off and doesn't seem to really leave a noticeable trace behind, on either the hardtop gasket or the mating surface on the car's rear deck.

If I had to contrast the behavior/performance compared to sprays I've used in the past, I'd say that the Shin Etsu grease ends up acting more like a greasy surface film than a penetrating liquid. It's likely due to the properties of a grease, which doesn't really flow very readily.

I do have a negative data point to share on silicone spray -- I remember using it on door gaskets of a car I owned in the 80s, on the recommendation of a friend. It did seem to go on nicely and make the rubber softer and more compliant, but within a few weeks it got super noisy. My conclusion then is that it caused the rubber to develop a sheen, which then got real noisy as it rubbed against painted surfaces of the car. I can't think of a good word to describe it, but it was kind of a no mans land between grippy and slippery that made a lot of noise. Sort of like sitting on one of those padded vinyl arm chairs that makes all sorts rude vinyl-on-vinyl noises as you settle in. Luckily I was able to wash the silicone off the gaskets with some soap.

Based on that link, BMW has the Rubber protectant, which if you look closely at the photo is actually Gummi Pflege. They also sell a silicone based spray product, but it has different uses according to their info.

Here are BMWs product descriptions:

Rubber protectant, 300 ml*
Protects and cares for all the car's rubber parts and extends their life. Preserves the integrity of rubber seals in the engine compartment and prevents window and door seals from freezing up in winter. Also suitable for cleaning and maintaining tyres and rubber floor mats.

Silicone spray, 300 ml*
The CFC-free silicone spray is a universal oil- free lubricant. By forming a water-repellent layer, it protects electrical systems and eliminates friction problems. Especially suitable for sliding roofs, door hinges, floor cables, safety belts and other moving parts made from plastic and metal. Contents: 300 ml.

You’ll note that BMW is suggesting their silicone product is a lubricant suitable for plastic and metal. We know that plastic, like metal, is typically impervious to penetration by liquids. If AutoGeek’s info about Gummi Pflege is correct, it’s a water based product more ideally suited for non-plastic products that can absorb the material. I would suggest that silicone based grease may be forming a barrier to protect your seal from the elements, which is not bad, but likely is doing nothing to actually extend the life of the seals and weather strips. No doubt that gets back to the recommendations I read on the other forum concerning not using dielectric grease on weather seals.

.

[teezee]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Based on that link, BMW has the Rubber protectant, which if you look closely at the photo is actually Gummi Pflege. .

I may be wrong but I think Gummi Pflege is just German for rubber maintainer, I don't think it's a product in it's own right. Auto Geek sells Einszett's brand of rubber maintainer, BMW sells their own (probably) re-branded version of rubber maintainer. Not sure if there is any difference in the chemical make-up of their products.

For what it's worth, I did all my door seals, my trunk seal and any other rubber seals I could see with the 1Z product. Granted I didn't have any complaints prior, just did it as part of a thorough interior detail one time a few weeks ago. I like the sponge top applicator- makes it easier to apply and stay neat.