Oh Snap! New S4 starts at $45,900!!!

[BMdblU]

Spotted a sprint blue one behind me today, didn't know they were out. I pulled up beside the driver and we chatted briefly.. said it was pretty quick and he seemed to like it.. he said it was a company car. It looked and sounded amazing.

Originally Posted by NewSong

Also:

- Any domestic are crap, the interior looks like legos, and they drive like boats (even if said domestic beats 335i on the track)
- 335i's just offer European finesse
- You get more women driving a Bimmer
- If a car is more luxurious, the 3 Series is sportier and higher performance
- If a car is higher performance, the 3 Series has the better interior
- If a car is both more luxurious and higher performance than the 335i, the the other car is ugly
- If a car is more luxurious, faster, and better looking, go f*** yourself, the 335i was just right for me and anything more is too much
- If all else fails, outright lies and slander about the non-335i car

I think that about covers it.

You're an idiot.. go do something better with your time then troll a forum and maybe you can get one of these cars you oh so clearly want.


:finger:

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by BMdblU

maybe you can get one of these cars you oh so clearly want.


:finger:

Which cars would those be?

How do you know what I have in my stable?

[jeremicium]

I vow that if I my 335 turns out to be a bad experience, I will move on, get another car, and stay off of bmw forums...looking for every opportunity to take a jab at the car that let me down...

So much of that here. Not that everyone is doing it, but come on...you guys that take every chance to bash the 335 are doing exactly what you hate in all those guys that place 335s on pedestals and take every opportunity to trash other cars.

Find better things to do

[dpwr]

competition is a good thing

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

I vow that if I my 335 turns out to be a bad experience, I will move on, get another car, and stay off of bmw forums...looking for every opportunity to take a jab at the car that let me down...

So much of that here. Not that everyone is doing it, but come on...you guys that take every chance to bash the 335 are doing exactly what you hate in all those guys that place 335s on pedestals and take every opportunity to trash other cars.

Find better things to do

I love my 335 but its making me try to find another brand for my next car, I'm sorry....

When it's good, it's great, but that's just not often enough. And BMW's attitude about things like the HPFP are just making it worse. People warned me about LR and its problems before I got my Disco, but it came and went without a negative peep. 20k miles on my BMW, and I've had so many features malfunction or go bad that I might as well be driving a base Kia Rio.

I have been a BMW owner for a long time, owning every 3 series since the E21. And let me tell you that things have changed more for the worse than for the better. The S4 is the better car now, and unless there's some revolution at BMW, it will continue to be that way for a while. I hope BMW has a surprise in store for us all, but I've pretty much lost faith.

[cstavaru]

That test where the S4 wins is a joke.

The BMW was tested in xi form, where it does not have the upgraded M-Sport suspension but the standard raised xi suspension (softer than even the standard 335i suspension). Also the 335xi is slower than the 335i on a track. Would they have chosen the 335i M-Sport manual (or DCT but stupidly this is not available on the sedan), the results would be different (I think they chose the automatic gearbox, which is stupid to compare with Audi DSG). Also, if they chose a 335i M-Sport with BMW Performance Power Kit (which is an OEM part and brings the power on par with the Audi) the BMW would win hands down.

A proper comparison would be Audi S4 vs. BMW 335i M-Sport manual transmission with BMW Performance Power Kit (whose price would not be higher than the price of the BMW tested, because the xi suspension and the automatic gearbox would replace the cost of the M-Sport and the Power Kit).

Also, the Audi had an LSD whereas BMW had the open diff. If BMW would also offer a LSD as a BMW Performance option, the S4 would be destroyed. But this does not count, since BMW is not offering the damn diff (are you f*cking listening, BMW ?).

But the review was probably mean from the beginning to have the Audi as winner. You can't compare an Audi S with a standard BMW except when you want Audi to win.

So I have no doubts whatsoever that the 335i chassis is way better than the Audi chassis. With the addition of the BMW Performance Power Kit, the engine power difference is also eliminated.

[maswastage]

I can't speak for the Audi S4, but I test drove the A4 3.2 and was very underwhelmed. I don't understand what these reviewers are smoking when they say that Audi's interior design is superior to BMW's. Aesthetically, I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but the Audi's plastic bits felt cheap and the navigation controls were not very intuitive. The steering felt dead and the suspension was too wobbly. I was expecting to find the Audi at least on par with my 328xi, bit it just was not the case.

Like I said, not an S4, but the test drive did leave me with a very poor impression of Audis in general.

[jmsent]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I love my 335 but its making me try to find another brand for my next car, I'm sorry....

When it's good, it's great, but that's just not often enough. And BMW's attitude about things like the HPFP are just making it worse. People warned me about LR and its problems before I got my Disco, but it came and went without a negative peep. 20k miles on my BMW, and I've had so many features malfunction or go bad that I might as well be driving a base Kia Rio.

I have been a BMW owner for a long time, owning every 3 series since the E21. And let me tell you that things have changed more for the worse than for the better. The S4 is the better car now, and unless there's some revolution at BMW, it will continue to be that way for a while. I hope BMW has a surprise in store for us all, but I've pretty much lost faith.

Really?? I've owned every 3 series since the E30, and I would say that each progressive model has gotten considerably better than the one before. By the time my 87 325is had 60k on the clock, I had a collection of service invoices that was as thick as a book. Within the first 2 years, I had front shocks fail completely, control arms wear, rear shock mounts, bad idle control unit, bad fuel injectors, water pump, and an oil leak. And those are the things I remember. Also, parts cost was astronomical.
My E36 had window regulators fail, the clutch was never right, plus the usual water pump, control arm, and rear shock mount problems.
My E46 330i was much better. It only needed a new differential due to horrible whine with the original one, the control arms needed replacing, and the radio broke. I didn't keep it long enough for the window regulators and water pump to go.
My E92 335i has needed a new fuel pump and a speaker grill replaced. That's it. After nearly 4 yrs of the E90 series, we are still not hearing about rampant window regulator failures, worn out control arms, or bad water pumps. The fuel pump issue IS a real problem. But it's one that BMW is standing behind, extending the warranty on the part to 10 years. And yes, when it fails, it's a big pain. But it isn't failing every day. Most of us are on our first or second replacement. That's a day in the shop for each. The rest of the time, our cars are usually just fine.
I don't believe BMW is going in the wrong direction at all. There are always going to be some problems, and there will be those who have more of those problems than others. The cars are a lot more complex, have a lot higher performance, but are in general also becoming more reliable. As for the Audi, I'm sure they are moving in the same general direction regarding reliability. But for those who are thinking of moving over to Audi in search of a better overall reliability experience, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Japan Inc. is the only place to go if you're on that quest.

[Greeney]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

That test where the S4 wins is a joke.

The BMW was tested in xi form, where it does not have the upgraded M-Sport suspension but the standard raised xi suspension (softer than even the standard 335i suspension). Also the 335xi is slower than the 335i on a track. Would they have chosen the 335i M-Sport manual (or DCT but stupidly this is not available on the sedan), the results would be different (I think they chose the automatic gearbox, which is stupid to compare with Audi DSG). Also, if they chose a 335i M-Sport with BMW Performance Power Kit (which is an OEM part and brings the power on par with the Audi) the BMW would win hands down.

A proper comparison would be Audi S4 vs. BMW 335i M-Sport manual transmission with BMW Performance Power Kit (whose price would not be higher than the price of the BMW tested, because the xi suspension and the automatic gearbox would replace the cost of the M-Sport and the Power Kit).

Also, the Audi had an LSD whereas BMW had the open diff. If BMW would also offer a LSD as a BMW Performance option, the S4 would be destroyed. But this does not count, since BMW is not offering the damn diff (are you f*cking listening, BMW ?).

But the review was probably mean from the beginning to have the Audi as winner. You can't compare an Audi S with a standard BMW except when you want Audi to win.

So I have no doubts whatsoever that the 335i chassis is way better than the Audi chassis. With the addition of the BMW Performance Power Kit, the engine power difference is also eliminated.

How does that make any sense... The S4 is Quattro so the XI is the fine suspension to compare against. Also I heard it goes Stock - XI - Sport - Msport in terms of stiffness. Stock for Stock the S4 is the better car it sounds like.

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by Greeney

How does that make any sense... The S4 is Quattro so the XI is the fine suspension to compare against. Also I heard it goes Stock - XI - Sport - Msport in terms of stiffness. Stock for Stock the S4 is the better car it sounds like.

The xi suspension is not stiffer than stock, its softer.

They should compare the best sporty setups (non-hardcore like M3 and RS4) for similar prices that Audi and BMW have. It happens that the xi in BMW is not as good as quattro, but that doesn't mean a RWD BMW can't outperform an Audi. Also the S4 has a sport suspension whereas the 335xi is just a regular suspension.

At the very least they should have compared S4 manual with 335i M-Sport manual.

Since for the same money of a 335xi automatic I can get a 335i M-Sport sedan manual and add a BMW Performance Power Kit to it and spank the S4, my conclusion is that the test was grossly biased.

[SteveMondragon]

'wow' is all I have to say to a good number of posts in this thread. Lots of narrow minded folks.

I came from a 2006 B7 S4 and now driving the E92. While the E92 does feel more sporty when driving, the S4 was a great car with awesome throttle response and just felt like a great sedan. I don't have a E90 335i to compare, but I've driven plenty of them to know that no matter what mods you do, you can't match the torque & throttle response of the 4.2L V8. Although driving the E90 M3 is faster & much more sporty, but then you're paying $20k more. I got my B7 S4 brand new at $52k. Sticker on a fully loaded 335i when I priced it out was around $48k.

There are pro's & con's for both cars IMO. But they're suited for different styles of driving and for different personalities.


I will say this. I still like the B7 body style a lot, even to this day and would still buy that over the newer B8. I don't like the new B8 body style on the A4 and S4, but the interior is nicer. The curves on the body don't flow well.

[GreenPlease]

They should take the boost on the 335 up to 11.6 psi, stock for the S4, and re-do the road course test...

Bet that test would look different...

Where'd you find the number for the S4's stock boost?

[tna3]

Wow. Not a single post here about how in the world the S4 pulls off such good MPG goverment ratings compared to a 335i.

More power + More torque + AWD and still better MPG than a 335i RWD.

I really don't care much for Audi's either. But what they are reporting is ridiculously good. Compare say a Subaru STI, 305hp AWD 400 lbs lighter gets 17/23 from a 4 cylinder Turbo.

S4, is 3700 lbs, 330 hp, 19 inch wheels gets 18/28. Base 335xi with stock 17 inch wheels rated at a misely 16/25. Huge difference how did they do it?

[jlstyle]

Oh WTF....
S4 is now in same price range as E90/92 335!!!!!!

S4 will be definately a winner over E90 for me!!!!!
But I'll have to think real hard about S4 VS E92 335.

[Jurisprudent]

I've been thinking of picking up a lightly used B7 S4 as my next car after the 330... I hope this pushes the price down on those significantly. I can't see how it wouldn't - given some dealers are trying to get that for lightly used '08s.

And no, I have no qualms with BMW or my car... just getting ready for something different, and really enjoyed driving a friends S4 (4.2)

Don't drive enough for gas mileage to be a big concern.

[jmsent]

Originally Posted by tna3

Wow. Not a single post here about how in the world the S4 pulls off such good MPG goverment ratings compared to a 335i.

More power + More torque + AWD and still better MPG than a 335i RWD.

I really don't care much for Audi's either. But what they are reporting is ridiculously good. Compare say a Subaru STI, 305hp AWD 400 lbs lighter gets 17/23 from a 4 cylinder Turbo.

S4, is 3700 lbs, 330 hp, 19 inch wheels gets 18/28. Base 335xi with stock 17 inch wheels rated at a misely 16/25. Huge difference how did they do it?

Manual to manual 335iRWD vs S4: 17/26 vs 18/27. Big deal. Don't take published mileage as bible. Real world results can be very different. BMW tends to be conservative. I'm averaging 23-24 overall, and if I go mostly highway I get close to 30.

[Nikkahtropolis]

Originally Posted by maswastage

I can't speak for the Audi S4, but I test drove the A4 3.2 and was very underwhelmed. I don't understand what these reviewers are smoking when they say that Audi's interior design is superior to BMW's. Aesthetically, I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but the Audi's plastic bits felt cheap and the navigation controls were not very intuitive. The steering felt dead and the suspension was too wobbly. I was expecting to find the Audi at least on par with my 328xi, bit it just was not the case.

Like I said, not an S4, but the test drive did leave me with a very poor impression of Audis in general.

This.

[cuban335i]

The S4 is way more $$ fully loaded ~ 62k and fully loaded the 335i is 10k less.. you can get a m3 sedan for that price.. the prestige tiptronic s4 is 53k base and the m3 sedan is 54k base.. i don't see why many people are saying the s4 is so much better.. a jb+ on a base 335i (~42K) would beat a stock base s4 (~46-53K)

[domobrown]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

The xi suspension is not stiffer than stock, its softer.

They should compare the best sporty setups (non-hardcore like M3 and RS4) for similar prices that Audi and BMW have. It happens that the xi in BMW is not as good as quattro, but that doesn't mean a RWD BMW can't outperform an Audi. Also the S4 has a sport suspension whereas the 335xi is just a regular suspension.

At the very least they should have compared S4 manual with 335i M-Sport manual.

Since for the same money of a 335xi automatic I can get a 335i M-Sport sedan manual and add a BMW Performance Power Kit to it and spank the S4, my conclusion is that the test was grossly biased.

I think the only grossly biased comments on here are coming from you. Obviously, owning a car as good as a 335i has gone to your head. It must be hard to accept that Audi is now a worthy competitor. We all know the B8 A4 3.2 was never up to par with the 335i, so why are you complaining that the 335i lost to a more worthy opponent? Shouldn't this be partly expected/grasped when Audi announced the S4? You take this loss seriously and try to explain it when you don't need to. The 335i is still a damn good car. I think this loss shouldn't go to anyone's head. The E90 is aging (very well), but there is no denying that the new tech in the S4 makes it superior in some areas. I have hope for BMW's next gen 3 will be good as or better than the S4, but for now, don't take this loss so seriously. The 335i will still be awesome even if it's not the newest fastest thing available.

[twinturbo335]

Originally Posted by cuban335i

The S4 is way more $$ fully loaded ~ 62k and fully loaded the 335i is 10k less.. you can get a m3 sedan for that price.. the prestige tiptronic s4 is 53k base and the m3 sedan is 54k base.. i don't see why many people are saying the s4 is so much better.. a jb+ on a base 335i (~42K) would beat a stock base s4 (~46-53K)

here we go again.. my chipped 335 can beat your X.. what if the S4 is chipped too?

[RealSanaii]

I loved Audi when I drove my A4 for 2 years but when it came to service, I just hated going to the dealerships. I know it's not Audi's fault that the dealerships are rude but still it was an unpleasant experience for me and I pledged to myself that I would not buy a single car from that dealership.

I know there are many snobby BMW dealerships too but from my experience vising about 4 different dealerships /service department always ended with a big smile on my part.

[footie]

Originally Posted by cuban335i

The S4 is way more $$ fully loaded ~ 62k and fully loaded the 335i is 10k less.. you can get a m3 sedan for that price.. the prestige tiptronic s4 is 53k base and the m3 sedan is 54k base.. i don't see why many people are saying the s4 is so much better.. a jb+ on a base 335i (~42K) would beat a stock base s4 (~46-53K)

It's funny that, but when I specced both models equally high with the same type of kit I found the S4 to be only $4K more. And in that extra $4K the Audi had 19" alloys (bloody lovely ones at that), DSG (not available in the US yet) and Sportsdiff (something BMW don't even offer but make a world of difference).

All things considered I would say that this time round at least Audi are holding all the aces.