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      03-06-2010, 08:55 AM   #1
matthewz409
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Question Resale of 6-spd vs. DCT

I'm a previous owner of Z4(e85) model. I've been thinking of purchasing the e89 but have found very few 35s with manual transmissions. I know DCT is faster than the 6-spd but I'm not looking for speed. Rather I just like the connection you get with a manual. After looking at other brands - Porsche, Nissan 350z, etc, very few manuals end up on the lot. It seems Corvette is the only model still catering to this market. This seems to tell me the manual is a thing of the past and it makes me very concerned about resale value of a manual vehicle.

What do you guys think?
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      03-06-2010, 09:03 AM   #2
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auto vs manual

You know, I'd buy what I enjoyed driving the most, resale being secondary.

That said, as an old ex hot rodder, I've grown out of the want of manually shifting. Traffic probably did me in the most but also the reliability of automatic transmissions and the paddle shifters do it for me on the occasional need to see the rpm's.

I also recently searched for low mileage 2009 C6 Corvettes. I focused on automatic's only. You're right about Vettes, there are plenty of manual shifts especially for the Z06 and up. Again, paddle shifters are a nice substitue for that occasional desire for control.

I've just gotten used to the fast shifts of automatics and the convenience in traffic.

Buy what you enjoy and forget about resale or you may regret your ride. Don't compromise what you enjoy.
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      03-06-2010, 09:08 AM   #3
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Buy what you enjoy and forget about resale or you may regret your ride. Don't compromise what you enjoy.
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      03-06-2010, 10:02 AM   #4
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Hereare a couple stories:

I had a 6 speed manual MINI Cooper S vert that I was going to trade on a VW R32. Took it to the MINI dealer where I bought it. It is a dealer in a large metropolitan area. He game me a trade in value much lower than I was expecting. Took it to CarMax and received an offer $1500 more than the MINI Dealer. Then I took it to the VW dealer where I was buying the R32. He called a couple dealers and got a quote and said, "Too bad it's a manual, around here no one want to have to shift bacause of all the traffic, but I have another option if you can let me have the car for a day." I told him OK. The next day he called and gave me an offer $3K more than CarMax. He said he found a buyer in Florida and told me that manuals still sell well there.

I also had a 1990 BMW 535 with a 5 speed manual. When I decided to sell it I put an ad in The Roundel and was besieged with buyers. Everyone of them said, I can't believe I found a 535i with a manual tranny. Needless to say I got top dollar for it since I had multiple offers.

So, I agree, buy what you want. There are still a few of us out there that enjoying the connection to the car that a manual tranny gives you. Granted, there are fewer wanting a manual, but when you want one you need to be able to find one. I pick up my s30i 6 MT on Monday and am really stoked.
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      03-06-2010, 10:20 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
Here are a couple stories:

The next day he called and gave me an offer $3K more than CarMax. He said he found a buyer in Florida and told me that manuals still sell well there.
That is good story. It is interesting your dealer found a buyer in FL. It must have been the 1 guy looking for a manual. I was in FL last week and visited three dealers. All of them said "we never see or sell manual anything. Very hard to sell b/c nobody wants them". I suspect it's the traffic and also needing to satisfy marital unit.

Last week at my local dealer in Chapel Hill told conflicting story. He said they never order manuals except M3 sometimes. They also don't like to take them on trades, but when they do they sell quickly b/c they are rare. He had similar story about a manual 5-series that quickly sold.

I sold my last z to a guy who couldn't even drive stick so maybe I shouldn't worry. I had to drive it to his house then he drove me home. Funny.

Thanks for the help. I will probably end up ordering in the next week or two. I guess that would make it an '11 model, right?
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      03-06-2010, 10:42 AM   #6
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in my opinion, there is no doubt that the DCT will have better resale value (assuming no major mechanical issues with DCTs versus manual) - the facts here in the US is that the vast majority of people, even those that want sporty Z4s, want an "automatic." this simply translates into more dollars when sold later
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      03-06-2010, 01:47 PM   #7
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in my opinion, there is no doubt that the DCT will have better resale value (assuming no major mechanical issues with DCTs versus manual) - the facts here in the US is that the vast majority of people, even those that want sporty Z4s, want an "automatic." this simply translates into more dollars when sold later
I would hope that all things equal a similarly equipped Z with a DCT would have a better resale since it is an extra cost option. Time will tell when the used car prices come out there will be a deduct for cars without an automatic if this is what the market dictates.

However, right now that is not the case according to Kelly Blue Book. I ran the numbers on a 2009 s35i with 10K miles, excellent condition. The book trade in value is the same for an automatic and a manual, $47,850.
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      03-06-2010, 10:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
I would hope that all things equal a similarly equipped Z with a DCT would have a better resale since it is an extra cost option. Time will tell when the used car prices come out there will be a deduct for cars without an automatic if this is what the market dictates.

However, right now that is not the case according to Kelly Blue Book. I ran the numbers on a 2009 s35i with 10K miles, excellent condition. The book trade in value is the same for an automatic and a manual, $47,850.
nothing personal, but KBB means s___. I am not a vulgar person but this is a fact - dealerships do not rely on it and nor do people for the most part. Time will tell but manuals ALWAYS have a considerably lower resale value whether the car is a trade in or person to person sale - people want "automatics" even though manuals are great
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      03-06-2010, 10:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewz409 View Post
I'm a previous owner of Z4(e85) model. I've been thinking of purchasing the e89 but have found very few 35s with manual transmissions. I know DCT is faster than the 6-spd but I'm not looking for speed. Rather I just like the connection you get with a manual. After looking at other brands - Porsche, Nissan 350z, etc, very few manuals end up on the lot. It seems Corvette is the only model still catering to this market. This seems to tell me the manual is a thing of the past and it makes me very concerned about resale value of a manual vehicle.

What do you guys think?
had nothing but manual cars for years and years. Have the dct transmission, and its brilliant. Much better for doing everything and having to deal with traffic. Also its like having three different kinds of tranmissions. There is a reason ferrari has stopped making standard transmissions in all their cars
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      03-07-2010, 01:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewz409 View Post
I'm a previous owner of Z4(e85) model. I've been thinking of purchasing the e89 but have found very few 35s with manual transmissions. I know DCT is faster than the 6-spd but I'm not looking for speed. Rather I just like the connection you get with a manual. After looking at other brands - Porsche, Nissan 350z, etc, very few manuals end up on the lot. It seems Corvette is the only model still catering to this market. This seems to tell me the manual is a thing of the past and it makes me very concerned about resale value of a manual vehicle.

What do you guys think?
I went with DCT because it is a better all rounder. Great in traffic and great when you just want to have a little fun. Still prefer manual when you just want to go for it. But due to a rugby injury to my knee/leg a few years ago, I don't see myself driving a manual car comfortably in traffic.
When I feel like rowing gears, I take my brother's 09 Audi S3. One of the easiest manual cars I've driven. Clutch is super light and the gears are so smooth. It's fun and doesn't kill my knee/leg.


T
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      03-07-2010, 06:17 PM   #11
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I agree that due to demand, traffic and improvements in technology transmissions like the DCT are becoming more popular and they do perform well. However, in a car like the Z4 I think there will always be some folks who want a manual. I don't think resale will differ much just because of the transmission. Time will tell. I only used KBB as a reference, I know it doesn't always reveal true market value. Most dealers base trade values on what is happening at the major auctions like Mannheim.
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Last edited by rmorin49; 03-07-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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      03-08-2010, 06:24 AM   #12
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Must be a manual transmission for me >>do not care about resale

For me the manual transmission adds part of the thrill of driving. Certainly a sporty car needs to handle well and have great performing brakes and engine but for me if the transmission is not manual I will not buy it. So if that means I will take a hit when selling it is worth every cent. My Z4 is a replacement to motorcycles and even the new Honda VFR 1200 bike has a DSG transmission so I bet within a decade manual transmissions in bigger bikes will be rare too. My fear is that in the next few years as more Europeans follow the North American trend to buy automatics it will be increasing difficult to buy a manual transmission in cars.
By the way does anyone know the ratio of manual to automatic/DSG transmissions in the Z4? When I bought in January the dealer said it was fewer than 10% with manual.
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      03-08-2010, 08:42 AM   #13
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Call me old fashioned, but I still like to row my own gears. I feel more engaged with the car than when I drive an automatic. That being said, I have yet to drive the DCT, but if it's anything like VW/Audi's DSG/S-Tronic, I would still have to opt for the 6spd manual. Cars are never a good investment. Go with what you love, not what you think others will want later. Good luck!
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      03-08-2010, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
Hereare a couple stories:

I had a 6 speed manual MINI Cooper S vert that I was going to trade on a VW R32. Took it to the MINI dealer where I bought it. It is a dealer in a large metropolitan area. He game me a trade in value much lower than I was expecting. Took it to CarMax and received an offer $1500 more than the MINI Dealer. Then I took it to the VW dealer where I was buying the R32. He called a couple dealers and got a quote and said, "Too bad it's a manual, around here no one want to have to shift bacause of all the traffic, but I have another option if you can let me have the car for a day." I told him OK. The next day he called and gave me an offer $3K more than CarMax. He said he found a buyer in Florida and told me that manuals still sell well there.

I also had a 1990 BMW 535 with a 5 speed manual. When I decided to sell it I put an ad in The Roundel and was besieged with buyers. Everyone of them said, I can't believe I found a 535i with a manual tranny. Needless to say I got top dollar for it since I had multiple offers.

So, I agree, buy what you want. There are still a few of us out there that enjoying the connection to the car that a manual tranny gives you. Granted, there are fewer wanting a manual, but when you want one you need to be able to find one. I pick up my s30i 6 MT on Monday and am really stoked.
You are right on and ENJOY your ED Z4 that comes in soon - please post pics
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      03-08-2010, 05:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
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For me the manual transmission adds part of the thrill of driving. Certainly a sporty car needs to handle well and have great performing brakes and engine but for me if the transmission is not manual I will not buy it. So if that means I will take a hit when selling it is worth every cent. RET
I agree. I was going to go with the new technology, but after driving it, I just didn't feel as engaged as I do with the manual. I don't care about resale values. I get what I want and not dependent on future resale values.
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      03-08-2010, 08:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageBMW View Post
You are right on and ENJOY your ED Z4 that comes in soon - please post pics
It's 9 pm and we just arrived home. Now I am absolutely convinced that I made the right choice. 6 speed manual tranny was a blast!!

Will post pics tomorrow in a separate thread along with my impressions of the car with the new Yokohama go flat tires.
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      03-09-2010, 09:30 AM   #17
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Did lack of a manual transmission keep you from buying a different car?

It did for me as I really liked the look of the new Audi A5 convertible and thought an all wheel drive four seater would have been great. We have a VW GTI and that car is really fun to drive as the 2.0 L turbo engine gives good fuel economy with lots of power so I hoped to get that engine in the Audi but Audi is not importing a manual transmission version to Canada.

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