Finally got to test drive a 35i with DCT!

[Roadstergal]

I finally found a dealer that had a 35i with dct to test drive yesterday. I drove about 70 miles as three closer BMW dealers did not have a dct to test drive.

When I got to the dealer they had a deep sea blue with ivory interior waiting for me. The car had the sport package with 18" wheels. It was gorgeous! The car was fast and the shifting smooth and fast. I did like it, but I was not blown away by it, as I thought that I might be. For those of you that read my prior posts, I have always driven manuals, but was interested in test driving the dct based on all the accolades it has received. I was tempted to end my purist ways and go with this amazing tranny that supposedly had the best of both worlds. I was initially impressed, but the more I drove it, I realized that it still seemed more like an automatic and the fun factor of a real manual was gone. I thought it was going to feel less like an auto and alittle more like a manual but for me, it did not.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but not enough to give up my six speed manual. If you have driven more automatics in your lifetime than this probably would fill the bill as a more sporting option, but if you love driving manuals, it just didn't fit the bill. I started thinking that after the novelty wore off, I would be definetely missing the standard.

As I drove my six speed manual 2006 Z4 back home, top down, on a gorgeous day, I had a big smile on my face as I was manually shifting gears. I now have to decide between the 35i or 30i. They have a six speed in each. I plan on driving them back to back sometime next week at my local dealer. As I write this, I am leaning more towards the 30i because it is lighter and I think would handle more like a drivers car. The exhaust note is nicer as well. I will make my final decision after driving both cars.

I will get either fully loaded. The best deal I have received is about $2500.00 off the build your own price on bmwusa.com. Is that a good deal? That is what I was given right out of the box without any haggling.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Roadstergal

I finally found a dealer that had a 35i with dct to test drive yesterday. I drove about 70 miles as three closer BMW dealers did not have a dct to test drive.

When I got to the dealer they had a deep sea blue with ivory interior waiting for me. The car had the sport package with 18" wheels. It was gorgeous! The car was fast and the shifting smooth and fast. I did like it, but I was not blown away by it, as I thought that I might be. For those of you that read my prior posts, I have always driven manuals, but was interested in test driving the dct based on all the accolades it has received. I was tempted to end my purist ways and go with this amazing tranny that supposedly had the best of both worlds. I was initially impressed, but the more I drove it, I realized that it still seemed more like an automatic and the fun factor of a real manual was gone. I thought it was going to feel less like an auto and alittle more like a manual but for me, it did not.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it, but not enough to give up my six speed manual. If you have driven more automatics in your lifetime than this probably would fill the bill as a more sporting option, but if you love driving manuals, it just didn't fit the bill. I started thinking that after the novelty wore off, I would be definetely missing the standard.

As I drove my six speed manual 2006 Z4 back home, top down, on a gorgeous day, I had a big smile on my face as I was manually shifting gears. I now have to decide between the 35i or 30i. They have a six speed in each. I plan on driving them back to back sometime next week at my local dealer. As I write this, I am leaning more towards the 30i because it is lighter and I think would handle more like a drivers car. The exhaust note is nicer as well. I will make my final decision after driving both cars.

I will get either fully loaded. The best deal I have received is about $2500.00 off the build your own price on bmwusa.com. Is that a good deal? That is what I was given right out of the box without any haggling.

Thanks for the info.

I struggle with the same questions. I think a lot of us guys tend to wavier toward the tek side, and I'm definitely in that camp. I also like a lot of power. If the current 30i what have been available 30 years ago, folks what have been in tears, "Oh My God, 255 hp!". But it sort of relative by today's standard: 300 hp 35i, 414 hp m3, 500 M6, 500 hp 911 tt, and it goes on.

I haven't purchased anything from a BMW dealer as yet, but I doubt they're any different than the rest of their breed. Explain to them that you are shopping around, don't given into pressure, let them know that you're a serious buyer and see what deal they'll be give willing to make when they see you don't mind walking away. You might even be able to get a couple of dealers working against each other. One of the best tools I use is having my financing all set up before I walk in - then say "Forget the monthly payment yada yada, what's your bottom line price?"

For the handful of new cars I've purchased over the years, I prefer to work with the fleet manager. I call on the phone and ask for the fleet manager, and then ask what their inventory is for specific cars along with the price for each one. They may not have the exact color or options, so call at least 3 or 4 dealerships, and it beats trying to go a bunch of lots and looking around. Then when find what you're looking for, call the fleet manager back and see what kind of deal their willing to make. BMW could be an exception - not sure if they have fleet sales.

Go to kelly blue book and see what their invoice amount is.

30i

http://www.kbb.com/KBB/NewCars/Optio...Z4_249333.aspx

35i

http://www.kbb.com/KBB/NewCars/Optio...Z4_249337.aspx

I know some indicate they have beat dealer invoice, but it's hard to tell what the real circumstances were or the deal.

[Z4 Beemer]

Good post Roadstergal. For me you hit the nail on the head when you said the word "novelty". I'm sure I would love the DCT at first, but after a while I suspect I might get fed up with it and would actually like to go back to a proper manual. I have always driven manuals, and although I'm starting to like what I hear about the DCT in the 35i, I would still view it as an automatic - in the UK you could drive it with an "automatic-only" license. I agree with you though, in that if you were a fan of automatics then it would be a good box to have.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Z4 Beemer

in the UK you could drive it with an "automatic-only" license.

What does that mean? They consider it an automatic?

[Z4 Beemer]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

What does that mean? They consider it an automatic?

In the UK, an "automatic-only" license allows you to drive cars that don't have a clutch pedal, so yes, it would be regarded as an automatic.

[NFexec]

I drove the same equipped car a while ago, and I totally agree. I thought I was in the minority - but apparently not!

Doug

[willysp]

Glad you got a chance to drive one before ordering one.

For me, the 35i and DCT was the right choice, which surprised me. It's definitely not the same experience as my Z3 3.0 with manual.

No right or wrong choice of course - congrats on getting enough info to make your decision!

FYI, my 35's exhaust note is significantly louder, longer and deeper after only 600 miles. I prefered it to the 30's when comparing them on the lot. I Love it now! YMMV

[Alext]

Thanks for the review. It has answered one of my concerns. I also thought like you. I just enjoy the control of a manual. It also saves a couple of grand!

[Rubber Ducky]

The DCT driven in automatic is an automatic in all respects save the actual mechanization in the drivetrain. The DCT driven exclusively with the paddles is a manual save the clutch peddle/rev matching/move-the-shift-lever hoohah of changing gears.

I've got 30K miles in an E93 Steptronic. Pure automatic. Except i've been driving it using only the paddles for over two years now and find it to be like the world's best manual ... minus the clutch stuff etc.

My thesis: two parts to driving a manual well: knowing what gear to be in; getting into that gear. Smooth and satisfying driving of a BMW with paddles (save that horribly clunky SMG - RIP) does not do away with the first part, knowing the gear to go to. All it does is automate the second part, getting into the gear. For what it's worth, all my prior cars were manuals. The E89 I have on order (already built and sitting on a pier waiting to cross the pond) is DCT.

Final comment: these perennial auto-vs-manual wrangles in car forums seem to have a touch of testosterone driving them: 'manuals are ... well ... manly.' Or so seems to go the argument. I think the DCT is a game-changer and if the motivation is driving well and not ego, it wins hands down.

[Roadstergal]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

The DCT driven in automatic is an automatic in all respects save the actual mechanization in the drivetrain. The DCT driven exclusively with the paddles is a manual save the clutch peddle/rev matching/move-the-shift-lever hoohah of changing gears.

I've got 30K miles in an E93 Steptronic. Pure automatic. Except i've been driving it using only the paddles for over two years now and find it to be like the world's best manual ... minus the clutch stuff etc.

My thesis: two parts to driving a manual well: knowing what gear to be in; getting into that gear. Smooth and satisfying driving of a BMW with paddles (save that horribly clunky SMG - RIP) does not do away with the first part, knowing the gear to go to. All it does is automate the second part, getting into the gear. For what it's worth, all my prior cars were manuals. The E89 I have on order (already built and sitting on a pier waiting to cross the pond) is DCT.

Final comment: these perennial auto-vs-manual wrangles in car forums seem to have a touch of testosterone driving them: 'manuals are ... well ... manly.' Or so seems to go the argument. I think the DCT is a game-changer and if the motivation is driving well and not ego, it wins hands down.

I am sorry, but it just wasn't as fun for me. Believe me, anyone who knows me would admit that I am all for the newest high tech gadget, but in this case I have to pass. As I stated, the dct is great and will fill the bill for most people use to driving automatics and for some manual drivers as well, but if you really to be an extension of the car, it is manual all the way. I don't go for that manyly thing either. I am a female and I have always driven manuals and just feel that it is a travesty to drive a sports car with anything but a true manual.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by Roadstergal

I am sorry, but it just wasn't as fun for me. Believe me, anyone who knows me would admit that I am all for the newest high tech gadget, but in this case I have to pass. As I stated, the dct is great and will fill the bill for most people use to driving automatics and for some manual drivers as well, but if you really to be an extension of the car, it is manual all the way. I don't go for that manyly thing either. I am a female and I have always driven manuals and just feel that it is a travesty to drive a sports car with anything but a true manual.

The question: did you drive it paddles only? If yes, no further comment. if no, my words stand. (The paddles take getting used to, somewhat like learning the rhythm of a new car, shift points, etc., but also a need to think with your thumbs and the absolute need to keep track of what gear you're in. Fortunately, BMW makes the latter easy - the DIC gear display [M3. etc.] is clear and visible in all light. As with any new car, time makes it all mo' betta.)

[yabbanoname]

I think the DCT is great, also for the track (the suspension is however ...), anyway look at this:
Allan McNish in the R8 V10, with the R-tronic (it handles the power, but is sure isn't like the DCT).

[Roadstergal]

What do you mean exactly by paddles only? I put the gear selector in manual and used the paddles. I also drove it shifting with the shifter. I did see the gear display come up showing m2, m3, etc. I liked it, don't get me wrong, but as I stated in my earlier post, I felt that if I bought the car with the dct, that after a while I would be longing for my true and tried manual gearbox. I just couldn't take that chance laying all that money down on the car when the wow factor just wasn't there for me.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by Roadstergal

What do you mean exactly by paddles only? I put the gear selector in manual and used the paddles. I also drove it shifting with the shifter. I did see the gear display come up showing m2, m3, etc. I liked it, don't get me wrong, but as I stated in my earlier post, I felt that if I bought the car with the dct, that after a while I would be longing for my true and tried manual gearbox. I just couldn't take that chance laying all that money down on the car when the wow factor just wasn't there for me.

You did what I mean.

What you would need more time for is the growing feel of speed and ease of driving the car hard using the paddles to always get you into exactly the right gear ... no missed shifts, no CDV BS, etc. Same trade-off factors you describe ... I just come down on the other side, though with full sympathy for your viewpoint.

FYI, after I first got it, I damned near traded in my E93 - Steptronic is a great automatic, but I missed the manual feel. But when I started using the paddles (head slapper - should have done so from the start), I got it all back and - as said - have been most pleased with the experience. FWIW, the DCT should be a tick (.1 second maybe) 0-60, full auto against a skilled manual.

[Vintage]

I do love manuals and I love the DCT - it is a marvel. There is no wrong answer, but here in the states - the DCT WILL HAVE a MUCH HIGHER RESALE VALUE for those of you, like me, that bought the car (assuming no long term mechanical issues with the DCT). Anyway, even that didn't matter as for making the manual v. DCT decision because it is my wife's car and she wanted an "automatic." So, I bought her the best one around, and I really like it too.

[teagueAMX]

Maybe where Roadstergal is coming from and I may go as well, is the 6mt is a bit of a throwback to a more traditional, minimalist sports car configuration.

I'm a power user always chasing after the latest tek, but I'm getting a little tired of it. In this case I'm looking forward to test driving a 30i w/ 6mt. My sense is it will be more engaging rather than have a layer of tek between me and the Z.

Don't know if the Z4 will be my daily driver or not. Maybe after driving the 30i I'll decide to go for a 35i for my daily, and then try to find a good deal on a nice M Coupe. That might solve the issue for me.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Maybe where Roadstergal is coming from and I may go as well, is the 6mt is a bit of a throwback to a more traditional, minimalist sports car configuration.

So are unending rattles, mechanical breakdowns, and electrical problems that seem to breed in the dark. Go back far enough, and so is the handcrank starter. I loved my first car, an ancient '36 Olds business coupe, would love to still have it, but god bless me the repairs.

Nostalgia and bad memory reside in the same section of the human brain. Or, as a wise person once said, "Things weren't like this in the old days ... and they never were." You're sentiments aren't quite yet Luddite, but it's not a whole lot further down the path...

(All said in good spirit.)

[willysp]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

The question: did you drive it paddles only? If yes, no further comment. if no, my words stand. (The paddles take getting used to, somewhat like learning the rhythm of a new car, shift points, etc., but also a need to think with your thumbs and the absolute need to keep track of what gear you're in. Fortunately, BMW makes the latter easy - the DIC gear display [M3. etc.] is clear and visible in all light. As with any new car, time makes it all mo' betta.)

I don't understand your comment about paddles, and I have a DCT. It's the same whether you use the paddles or the shifter.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

So are unending rattles, mechanical breakdowns, and electrical problems that seem to breed in the dark. Go back far enough, and so is the handcrank starter. I loved my first car, an ancient '36 Olds business coupe, would love to still have it, but god bless me the repairs.

Nostalgia and bad memory reside in the same section of the human brain. Or, as a wise person once said, "Things weren't like this in the old days ... and they never were." You're sentiments aren't quite yet Luddite, but it's not a whole lot further down the path...

(All said in good spirit.)

LOL

I appreciate where you're coming from Rubber Ducky, but I didn't say I wanted to chisel my own wheels from a block of stone.

Roadstergal had another post asking ppl about the 30i vs 35i. I posted a response from an ezine article that basically says the the 30i 6mt is a better driver's car than the 35i. It's got less power, but it's also about 250 lbs (US) lighter than a DCT equipped 35i. The weight difference is carrier almost entirely by the front axle, which can have a significant effect on the basic driving nuisances.

So, getting back to my earlier statement, is the 30i's mt may provide a more visceral connection with the car and the road. At least that's what I'm hoping for when I drive it. I have a stressful job and deal with tek stuff all day long, and frankly sometime less it more and low-tek can be nice too.

I've loved a lot of cars in my lifetime, but the Triumph TR6 was my first love. Now if I said I going back to that then you'd have reason worry about me because everything you said applies to those cars.

Some people will cringe when I say this, but you may notice a slight resemblance between the TR6 and the Z4 - long, low hood, extreme rearward driving position, to name a few. How did BMW folks say it in their promo vids: They have extended the roadster mythos with the latest Z4. I would agree.

[Rubber Ducky]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Some people will cringe when I say this, but you may notice a slight resemblance between the TR6 and the Z4 - long, low hood, extreme rearward driving position, to name a few. How did BMW folks say it in their promo vids: They have extended the roadster mythos with the latest Z4. I would agree.

More the Austin Healy 3000 to my eye...

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky

More the Austin Healy 3000 to my eye...

Yes, actually I think you're right. The lines are much more similar.