Lets talk about slimy dealerships

[RABAUKE]

I was on the post "How about some POSITIVE comments for dealers?", and I found my self lacking.....so bring your gripes folks.

I'm not sure whats worse, a car salesman, insurance salesman or divorce lawyer.....

Seriously, doesn't have to be BMW, as I said in my post I recently bought an MB, the guy who sold it to me seemed genuine, and then the GM came over to welcome me to "the family" falk me. I'm not marrying your daughter guy, I bought a car from you. I haven't had to take it in for any warranty issue yet but left feeling like I wanted to shower.....overall I'd rather chew tinfoil and shave my head with a cheese grater than deal with a dealership....any dealership.

Lets here your stories....

[davis449]

Momentum BMW in Houston. Worst buying experience EVER. I bought my previous pre-owned 2012 135i there back in 2014. Salesman was a moron. Everyone says this, I'm for real. Sales mgr. was useless, too. The F&I guy..forget it. Thank God I had my best friend there with me who sold cars for over a decade. It took us ALL DAY (we showed up at 11:00 AM) to get a deal done. And I was being totally fair with the deal I presented. This was a car I spec'd out five days before getting there. I get there and all of the sudden, the car's not CPO'd yet. This after them telling me twice, once on Monday and once of Friday before I drove over that evening, when I called that it was, not to worry, and just drive on over from SA. We took a break from their horseshit and went down to Clear Lake to look at one, but it wasn't what I wanted, so we went back and pushed through. It took all three of those idiots to get the deal done. At the very end ~8:45 PM my buddy literally kicked the F&I guy's chair aside from his desk and ran the numbers for him. He held the calculator up to the guy's face and said "THAT'S the number, THAT'S the deal. Now put that in the computer, print it out, so he can sign it, and we can go the fuck home." My God, what a struggle that was.

When I traded my car in for the Z4 here in SA, I initiated the process to refund the remainder of the aftermarket warranty I purchased from Momentum immediately. After more than 8 weeks I headed to BMW West Houston in Katy, ironically also run my Sonic Automotive (same as Momentum), to get my Dinan tune. Couldn't believe how well I was treated there comparatively. My secondary purpose was to head to Momentum with all my paperwork and evidence to, come hell or high water, get my money. As soon as I stepped in the place I could tell absolutely NOTHING had changed and saw the same idiot sales manager and the same incompetent F&I guy. I just shook my head. That took 2 hours. I waited around for an hour and a half of that for that F&I guy to come speak with me. When he didn't show up, the front desk girl finally came and got me and took matters into her own hands (thankfully). She walked over the the new car showroom, and dug up my check that was at the bottom of some endless pile of mail to be sent out (the check was cut two weeks prior). That was the last half hour to 45 mins. I spent there. Never, ever, ever again. IDC if they have the perfect car I want with all the options...won't even bother.

[Germanauto]

Bought a lightly used japanese luxury sedan from an Infiniti dealer. One guy I worked with was nice but didn't make any effort to make a deal. A month later, another guy was able to make a deal and as the car was being prepped, salesguy 1 comes up to us and says "hey I was the one who was working with you I should get the credit" or something like that. It's just so unprofessional and not something you'd ever expect from a luxury car dealership. That and some other things really turned me off from the Infiniti brand as a whole. Second class cars, second class facilities, and second class employees. There's a reason they're viewed as a "poor man's BMW."

Another time, the service guy I was working with at a Lexus dealer started making snide remarks about me buying the car used from another dealership. It's extremely unprofessional, fact is that they were being crooks charging arm and leg for their CPO car. I got the same ride with fewer miles for $3,500 less than what you were quoting and I let him know that. It's a 20K mile Lexus so who the hell cares about CPO, it's going to be reliable so paying that extra $3,500 is stupid. At the end of the day it's a Lexus and I deserve the same quality of service no matter which dealership I visit.

[Germanauto]

Another time I was helping my folks select a new SUV. They just wanted to check out the ML so we went to the MB dealer. Instead of pulling up a nicely optioned model to test drive they just picked the first car they saw, a lightly-used ML white outside with beige MB-tex. Well that didn't do the car any favors. To add to that the ML is ugly even in higher trims and has the driving dynamics of a wet paper bag. Regardless, if somebody wants to test drive a car give them a good one, not a dirty used model with MB-tex.

My folks passed on that and got another X5 with all the ///M sport goodies.

[paliknight]

Ford wouldn't let me test drive the gt350 nor the raptor. I laughed and jumped in my F82 and left. They didn't realize I just like to dress scrubby.

[m_thompson]

Originally Posted by paliknight

They didn't realize I just like to dress scrubby.

On our first visit to the local BMW dealer the salesman would not talk to us about buying a new E91. He said that we could get literature and answers to our questions on the BMW WWW site and walked away.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by m_thompson

On our first visit to the local BMW dealer the salesman would not talk to us about buying a new E91. He said that we could get literature and answers to our questions on the BMW WWW site and walked away.

Funny thats what they did to me at the Audi dealership. I had a 97 explorer and gotten my first expensive suit [worth more than my car] and strolled in and asked to sit in an R8. They said no, so I asked to see the GM, showed him my bank account walked across the street started buying BMWS lol.


I will say going to a dealership now in the R8 seems to command a certain level of respect and treatment, that I've not seen with even my most expensive M's or the GTR.
-------------------------------------------------------

BMW Rockville has gutted the management I used to work with for 10+ purchases, and it drove me away from trying an i8 for a second time around to getting an R8, albeit from a BMW dealer in Virginia [Sterling]. Very happy with the service I got there..


Thankfully being in the D.C. area and stiff competition the dealerships have to kinda be on-top of their game, with so many BMW dealerships within a 20-75 mile radius.

[Eau_Rouge111]

My thing isn't necessarily slimy dealerships but the labor rate now a days...I popped into a local BMW dealership here in the GTA to get an idea of the cost of some minor cosmetic work on my Z4 M Coupe...$155 an hour they charge! For $155 an hour...i'd rather try it myself, screw up...learn...fix it and do it right the second time!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Ford wouldn't let me test drive the gt350 nor the raptor. I laughed and jumped in my F82 and left. They didn't realize I just like to dress scrubby.

Not slimy. Protective. Many Chevy dealers do this with Corvettes.

No offense, but a dealership isn't going to let every Joe Schmo take a drive in what are currently two of the highest-demand production vehicles available. You needed to demonstrate that you were serious. "Dressing scrubby" isn't serious.

Not the dealer's fault. Yours.

[BEM-S4]

I regularly deal with 4 BMW dealers for any new car purchase. That number is now down to 3. Last car I called them all up, said I need to trade my Audi and get a Sport Wagon with XYZ options. Give me your best number on both, and I'll show you all my best deal in writing to see if you can beat it. I don't want to waste my time or theirs and am very up front about my expectations and how I plan to negotiate the deals.

Anyway after I ordered the car with Sun (whom I LOVE by the way) another guy called me like teenage stalker girl style every 15 minutes starting immediately after I emailed him telling him I went elsewhere. Couldn't process "better luck next time" and he kept giving me deal after deal to review. None better, mind you, just oh look over here the BMW is so much less now. Shiny things ooohhh ahhhhh. Don't pay attention to your trade value that we dropped to make up the difference. I finally stopped there on my way home from the office, pulled him into the sales manager's office and laid into both of them.

Two levels of agitation there. First I buy a lot of cars. Don't jerk me around just give me your best deal up front you know I'm transparent about things and if you're not the best I'll give you a chance to beat it or more importantly give you a shot at the next car. Can't always make it happen no harm no foul. Second and more importantly, these guys all know what I do for a living. In what universe does robbing from Peter to pay Paul shell game bullshit where you're just pathetically obvious about moving money from one pile to the other and trying to trick me do any good?

Beyond any of that all of these guys are in my area and I've sent them all business in the past. Doesn't make a ton of sense to try and pull a fast one to sell a single car.

[wdb]

Complaining about car salesmen is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and the pig is not smart enough to understand a word you're saying, let alone understand math.

[instantexpert]

I helped a former partner buy a Ford Fiesta. We're in the dealership and I have all the numbers I'm willing to pay. I tell the salesman, he agrees and then writes something else down on the paper. Two hours of negotiation where he would go back to his manager and come back with different numbers that I sent him to his manager with. Finally, sticking to my guns and paying very careful attention, I got a reasonable deal out of them.

I would have walked if it hadn't been a pinkish/magenta/fully loaded/had to have it car for her. *sigh*

So, the paperwork is all signed, we now own a brand new Ford Fiesta and they come to tell us the bad news that the brake master cylinder had to be changed before we could take it home so they sent us home in the car we no longer owned.

I went back to the GM who assured me the salesman had used his last chance and would be fired then they gave me free oil changes for a couple of years.

I should have walked but, in this case, it was the salesman and not the dealership that was the problem. They took good care of me during my brief excursion into Fordlandia.

[Maynard]

Many years ago during the purchase of a Mazda the dealership pulled out all the stops - I'd just read the 'tactics car dealers use' article that I think is now a classic, and just about lost my cool as they played every tawdry trick in that essay - right down to using the 'you're asking me to take food off my kid's table' line. Since I'm sort of in the head games business, I found it all kind of amusing. I'd come in late on a Saturday, and primed my wife to play her part. I stuck with the 'why won't you sell me a car?' line, and by the final bit, an hour after closing time, they had four guys from the shop standing around looking like bouncers and saying they 'couldn't come down a bit'. Playing it up, we 'left' (but killed a few minutes in the car, long enough for the GM to come running out 'wait they didn't get that last calc right, and we CAN meet your offer'.

Fast forward to our next car purchase (Honda), and I nearly crapped myself when a nice, personable salesman sits down and immediately offers us a better deal, and a better price on our trade than I thought I could get via KBB. Hate to admit it, but I felt a little like I'd been robbed, like when you have a big game coming up and the other side forfeits. They didn't even try to hard-sell the fluffy extra stuff (paint protect, underbody, etc).

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Not slimy. Protective. Many Chevy dealers do this with Corvettes.

No offense, but a dealership isn't going to let every Joe Schmo take a drive in what are currently two of the highest-demand production vehicles available. You needed to demonstrate that you were serious. "Dressing scrubby" isn't serious.

Not the dealer's fault. Yours.

Im in a suit and tie 10 hours a day 5 days a week. Not interested in doing that on my days off too. By scrubby I meant jeans and a Polo. Not torn up clothes.

But if I can test drive 100k+ cars at other dealerships then I would expect to test drive a ford.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by m_thompson

On our first visit to the local BMW dealer the salesman would not talk to us about buying a new E91. He said that we could get literature and answers to our questions on the BMW WWW site and walked away.

When I worked in sales, I had people in full suits committing fraud and I had people coming in dressed in a tank top, board shorts and flip flops spending thousands of dollars at verizon wireless. Not judging based on appearance is a fundamental of sales. If salesmen don't have basic fundamentals I don't expect them to be good at their jobs. I don't like working with mediocre salesmen.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by paliknight

When I worked in sales, I had people in full suits committing fraud and I had people coming in dressed in a tank top, board shorts and flip flops spending thousands of dollars at verizon wireless. Not judging based on appearance is a fundamental of sales. If salesmen don't have basic fundamentals I don't expect them to be good at their jobs. I don't like working with mediocre salesmen.

Amen. When my wife and I went to buy her a car, we went into an Acura dealership. She was coming from the office so she was dressed "appropriately". Me...t-shirt and sweat pants. At the time the second gen RDX was just released. We asked for a test drive. They assign us to a sales guy who looked at us and immediately showed us he felt we were wasting his time. During the test drive he was else where mentally and only interjected a comment here and there about some things about the car. All in all, he thought we were just joy riding.

Well, we get back to the dealership and he asks what we want to do; expecting us to just say we'll call you. I ask my wife if she likes the car and is interested in buying. She says yes. I turn to the sales guy and say we'll be back to talk numbers as my wife has to go back to the office because she's on her lunch break. He says ok and to test the waters he asks what are we looking at in terms of paying for the car. I told him I'm putting half down. His demeanor immediately changed as he realized we're serious. We come back later that day and I have to say the negotiation process was nice and he made up for the earlier experience. Since then, he has occasionally reached out via email to see how things are with the car and other to talk about other things. One of the best buying experiences and I would say had Acura had a 2 door coupe sports car, I would have entertained buying one from him.

Now the Mercedes dealership was a total disaster. Was interested in test driving a CLA45. Sales guy had poor follow up and pretty much blew me off. Ended up getting my 135i as a result which was also a nightmare buying experience. With buying from "upscale" marques, this was a night and day difference over my experience buying my Ducati.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Im in a suit and tie 10 hours a day 5 days a week. Not interested in doing that on my days off too. By scrubby I meant jeans and a Polo. Not torn up clothes.

But if I can test drive 100k+ cars at other dealerships then I would expect to test drive a ford.

Dude, you're not hearing me. You needed to demonstrate to the dealer that you were serious. If you didn't feel like doing it through appearance, then do it through words and actions. At least try to do a little convincing, man: something like "I would like to test drive a Raptor, if one's available. I really want to add it to the stable (then point to the M4)." If the salespeople don't react, go to another dealer and try again.

Just based on your posts, your general attitude screams "I make bank, and you should know that by telepathy and respect my bank!". I deal with this type every day; the city I live in is full of this kind of person. (Hell: people in Big D have this attitude even when they don't have bank.) Having money doesn't matter a whit to a Ford dealer. Demonstrating that you're serious does.

My point about suits has nothing to do with the cost of what a person dresses in to make a purchase. It has everything to do with how serious a person is taking the purchase in the eyes of the person who controls access to the purchase. At its most basic: Tailoring shows that you care; OTR RTW (off-the-rack ready-to-wear) shows that you don't. zx10guy , that example, though skewed because of the presence of your wife in business clothing, actually proves my point: the minute you proved you were serious, the salesman changed his demeanor. Would the salesman's demeanor have been more appropriate earlier if you were dressed in slacks, or selvedge jeans, or even decent jogger pants? Almost absolutely, if the salesman knows his stuff. (That point is exclusive of the salesman not knowing his stuff, obviously ... and to be honest, that likelihood is greater at Mazda and Ford dealerships.)

And I'm sorry: the point about criminals in suits and slubbies as big spenders has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. You're simply trying to get in the door of a Raptor or GT350, not taking something off the rack. Nice try, but you're clutching at straws.



Now: can we get this thread back on topic, please?

[Alfisti]

Some good stories here, keep em coming.

Biggest issue i have is cultural, first thing i say when i walk in is "to be clear, any numbers we discuss are out the door numbers, as in all taxes, fees and charges included, how you work backwards from there is your problem but i need to know what i am paying, not guessing... capish". They all agree and we negotiate and settle on a price, all good then i go to sign and .... taxes on top.

Jesus fucking christ, mate i said all in, "well included taxes but not the GST" ...that's a fuicking tax.

And out the door i go. Drives me nuts.

[mirob]

HAHAHAHAHA...is this real life???

Originally Posted by Viffermike

You're simply trying to get in the door of a Raptor or GT350, not taking something off the rack. Nice try, but you're clutching at straws.

I hope this is a joke. If not it's still funny. Everything Ford makes is off the rack...maybe with the exception of the GT. Dealer markups DO NOT magically turn Ford into Ferrari.

Maybe we need to start showing up at the dealerships with knee pads and lip balm to let them know how serious we are about a purchase...

Anyhow, not even a week ago I considered trading my X5 M for an M5. The deal they offered me was so outrageous that I didn't even want to make a counter offer...I'll put them on blast just for shits and giggles...Alderson BMW in Lubbock, TX.

Lowballing is always expected but they went in for the kill...

[R3dliner]

Penn Toyota, dealership in long island tried to do some slick shit when I purchased a brand new highlander. They decided to tack on additional 2k on the loan invoice thinking I wouldn't check my paperwork. I caught those scumbags which they proceeded to apologize and told me it was a typo. Yea right.

[instantexpert]

Another quick story. Years ago I went to a Chicago Mini dealer just after they were first released and there was an apparent shortage of cars. If a salesman had walked up to me and said something like "I'm sorry, we've got a large backlog of orders but I'll be happy to show you a car and answer your questions." Literally, anything that involved acknowledging my existence would have been nice and I might have considered going with a Mini at that point. These salespeople might as well not have even been at work the way they were ignoring customers.

Instead, I walked away, determined never to purchase from that dealership ever and never did buy that Mini.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by mirob

HAHAHAHAHA...is this real life???

I hope this is a joke. If not it's still funny. Everything Ford makes is off the rack...maybe with the exception of the GT. Dealer markups DO NOT magically turn Ford into Ferrari.

Maybe we need to start showing up at the dealerships with knee pads and lip balm to let them know how serious we are about a purchase...

Not quite my point, and apologies if that wasn't clear. A person is trying to gain access to a product that's highly sought after and limited in supply no matter its volume, not take a product that's readily available for anyone to grab and go. That's a big distinction -- and in that respect, sure: it is a bit like a Ferrari.

The point is access. A person needs to do what they can to enable the access -- not assume that they are entitled to that access because of whatever. The same applied to the M2 when it was first around: it's not a limited-production car, but it was in high demand and was, thus, pretty much unobtainum for those wanting to try it before buying it. Same applied to the Performance Pack VW Golf GTi -- and, as I mentioned before, Corvettes (for different reasons). It has nothing to do with what a product costs, or its production volume. It has to do with access, and again: it is up to you to do everything you can to enable that access. If one dealer won't allow it for whatever reason, good or bad, you're perfectly free to try again at another dealer.

Besides (even though it has lottle to do with the topic here): what's wrong with markups for high-demand items? That's called supply-and-demand capitalism. You may hate it, but it's free-market economics 101.