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      01-07-2015, 08:11 AM   #1
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Never be this guy....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu2q_Snb3Hk
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      01-07-2015, 08:34 AM   #2
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Frankly I'm mighty suspicious of this video. It looks impossible under any normal circumstances. The road is dry, and he's not flooring it. He revs it a tiny smidge and suddenly it's flying across the road?

I call BS.
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      01-07-2015, 11:29 AM   #3
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It's on the main page of this site with comments from the driver about what happened.
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      01-07-2015, 11:37 AM   #4
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There is a long thread on the F80 M3/M4 forums right now, and the owner identified himself and gave an explanation

Apparently he had the electronics completely off (i.e. DSC OFF) and it was cold outside so the car got sideways when he hit the throttle (he thought he was rolling on the throttle and was surprised by what happened next....)

F80 M3/M4 weighs ~3400-3550lbs and makes 424hp and 426ftlb at the wheels (relative to claims of 424hp and 406ftlb at the crank) and the stock tires are 275 wide Michelin PSS which aren't super sticky, so they can be overwhelmed by the power

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-bm...numbers-video/
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      01-07-2015, 11:56 PM   #5
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If you've ever driven one, the throttle sensitivity makes that seem totally plausible, especially on cold tires with no DSC. I looked like a teenager driving a stick for the first time when I took the F80 out for a spin.
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      01-08-2015, 03:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazykoh View Post
It's on the main page of this site with comments from the driver about what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
There is a long thread on the F80 M3/M4 forums right now, and the owner identified himself and gave an explanation

Apparently he had the electronics completely off (i.e. DSC OFF) and it was cold outside so the car got sideways when he hit the throttle (he thought he was rolling on the throttle and was surprised by what happened next....)

F80 M3/M4 weighs ~3400-3550lbs and makes 424hp and 426ftlb at the wheels (relative to claims of 424hp and 406ftlb at the crank) and the stock tires are 275 wide Michelin PSS which aren't super sticky, so they can be overwhelmed by the power

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-bm...numbers-video/
Do you guys have the forum link?

I still don't understand how he could screw up, he's just going straight, even if he put major power down, just keep the wheel straight and don't suddenly let off the gas. I'm confused how this and similar accidents occur.
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      01-08-2015, 03:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Do you guys have the forum link?

I still don't understand how he could screw up, he's just going straight, even if he put major power down, just keep the wheel straight and don't suddenly let off the gas. I'm confused how this and similar accidents occur.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1075458

Try flooring it with DSC OFF when there is some snow in a parking lot. I think you'll find that the rear will step out, similar to what happened in the video

In the video, no snow is needed because there is more than enough power to overwhelm 275mm wide PSS tires in the dry....
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      01-08-2015, 04:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazykoh View Post
It's on the main page of this site with comments from the driver about what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
There is a long thread on the F80 M3/M4 forums right now, and the owner identified himself and gave an explanation

Apparently he had the electronics completely off (i.e. DSC OFF) and it was cold outside so the car got sideways when he hit the throttle (he thought he was rolling on the throttle and was surprised by what happened next....)

F80 M3/M4 weighs ~3400-3550lbs and makes 424hp and 426ftlb at the wheels (relative to claims of 424hp and 406ftlb at the crank) and the stock tires are 275 wide Michelin PSS which aren't super sticky, so they can be overwhelmed by the power

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2015-bm...numbers-video/" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://blog.caranddr...ers-video/</a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...video/</a></a>" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://<a href="http...o/</a></a></a>
Do you guys have the forum link?

I still don't understand how he could screw up, he's just going straight, even if he put major power down, just keep the wheel straight and don't suddenly let off the gas. I'm confused how this and similar accidents occur.
There's an explanation for how it happens in the x5 forum. Post is by cit1991 toward the end of second page. I'll try to link it below. I'm not an expert, but it seems a plausible explanation.

What Happens When DSC Is Turned Off http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1075750
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      01-09-2015, 03:05 AM   #9
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Thx guys, I haven't read the links yet but in the meantime, how the heck did ppl stay alive in the olden days w/ no electric nannies to bail them out? I still don't get it.

nick>
Yes, it steps out as per your snow example, but you still have the ability to correct via steering....not as if the guy was turning, he was pointing straight ahead. I've had my car slip a bit on the highway when going faster than usual in the rain but it just required a quick steering reaction to put it back on the straight. I'm still confused how that M3 dude could screw up so majorly. Anyway...

BTW, that video reminded me of this, similar but this guy was turning when gassing it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgm8I0B8bY

EDIT: crap, how do you imbed YT vids? Arrgh...

Last edited by tranquility; 01-09-2015 at 04:45 AM..
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      01-09-2015, 04:36 AM   #10
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I guess he just didn't have your skills
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      01-09-2015, 04:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I guess he just didn't have your skills
LOL, I dunno about that, but I haven't tried totally switching off my DSC like that guy. Funny thing is that the guy's claiming to have all these adv driving ed and that's the result? I'm still confused.
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      01-09-2015, 11:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
but I haven't tried totally switching off my DSC like that guy. Funny thing is that the guy's claiming to have all these adv driving ed and that's the result? I'm still confused.
Your first sentence I think explains why you're confused on how this happens. Your mild countersteer in the rain might have been VERY different if you had dsc full off.

And if you haven't done dtc off when flooring it in a low traction surface you haven't really tried to simulate how fast the car can get sideways...

I've done a solid amount of driver training and I've spun cars and had 'oh crap' moments that dsc has saved me from so im not at all surprised, especially since he driver came from audi (fwd based awd car)
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      01-09-2015, 03:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Your first sentence I think explains why you're confused on how this happens. Your mild countersteer in the rain might have been VERY different if you had dsc full off.

And if you haven't done dtc off when flooring it in a low traction surface you haven't really tried to simulate how fast the car can get sideways...

I've done a solid amount of driver training and I've spun cars and had 'oh crap' moments that dsc has saved me from so im not at all surprised, especially since he driver came from audi (fwd based awd car)
How do you fully turn off DSC again? ...and how to switch back on, just press the DSC button again? Ok, I gotta try this in a snowy parking lot to see firsthand. I'm still wondering how we survived as a species before electric nannies came into existence if basically what I'm hearing from reading that long M3/4 thread that if it's *off*, then one's basically screwed...whatever happened to proper car control from the human? Did everyone in the old days wipe out?
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      01-09-2015, 03:36 PM   #14
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He pressed the ///M button which disabled DSC. I think it totally defeats it on the M versions
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      01-09-2015, 03:54 PM   #15
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^How about our cars? I'm too lazy to look it up.
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      01-09-2015, 04:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquility View Post
Did everyone in the old days wipe out?
First 911 turbo (type 930) was called "widow maker"... I'm sure got this name for a reason! If you see someone haulin' in one of those, that's cause for respect!

The M button calls up presets setup by the driver. I guess his was set for DSC OFF

The "MDM" mode is fairly conservative in the F80. Any mod other than OFF would have probably saved him

in our car, hold DSC button until DSC OFF shows up on the screen.
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      01-09-2015, 04:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
First 911 turbo (type 930) was called "widow maker"... I'm sure got this name for a reason! If you see someone haulin' in one of those, that's cause for respect!

The M button calls up presets setup by the driver. I guess his was set for DSC OFF

The "MDM" mode is fairly conservative in the F80. Any mod other than OFF would have probably saved him

in our car, hold DSC button until DSC OFF shows up on the screen.
Yes, but those Porsches are ass-heavy so of course they swing out much more easily, olden days or present, still much easier vs front-engine/rear wheel cars.

I think it's hold for 10 secs and the big 'DSC OFF' shows up? I simply press quickly again to switch it back on? Ok, will report back, need to find a wide open space...wish me luck lol.
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      01-16-2015, 02:16 PM   #18
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Did you survive?
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      01-16-2015, 02:46 PM   #19
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This guy looks like he was in shock and kept putting power down without counter steer.

"Everyone knows you never go full retard"- Kirk Lazarus
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      01-17-2015, 09:06 AM   #20
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That was an expensive "Show off" move.
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      01-17-2015, 10:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rking117 View Post
He pressed the ///M button which disabled DSC. I think it totally defeats it on the M versions
Not true. The "M" button enables "MDM" or "M Dynamic Mode." It allows more slip angle than with the DSC fully enabled, but it will step in at some point, unlike fully disabling the DSC (which can be done via a separate button).

Note that there are two versions of MDM: American and Euro. Euro is, as you might have guessed, more aggressive and allows even more slip angle before intervention than the American version. Coding in the Euro MDM is a popular modification among E92 M3 owners, myself included.
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