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      04-11-2012, 12:04 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post


We need a true M Z4 prepared by M engineers. The Z4 35is was disappointing, the steering was connected to nothing. Worst steering feedback in that segment. And while the engine is a thing of beauty, it lacks the spirit of an S engine.
Do you bitch and bad mouth about other people's cars on THEIR car forum often?
Do you generally do it just on the forum's or do you bad mouth people's car's with your opinions straight to their face too?

Last edited by 35iDriver; 04-13-2012 at 10:22 AM..
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      04-11-2012, 02:02 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2 View Post
Please share with us all exactly what they did to the Z4 35iS engine when they added it to the 1M...

It has the same power, torque, (I've dynoed both and they were within 2kW of eachother and the curves were identical) and both have the same overboost function.
The marketing from BMW even said it was the engine from the Z4 35iS.

The sticker change is the only bit we know about, so your facts about what has changed will be of great interest to us all.
First of all, we both know that quoting marketing lines doesn't necessarily gives you the truth. However, I didn't mean that 1M has more power or torque, I said that engine was worthy of M badge anyway but they did not want to put that badge while it was in the Z4's engine bay; and now in 1M on the contrary I could live without a badge. You say you dynoed both, please share the results and I will also be glad to see identical curves etc. and we will end discussion.

There are too many dyno results for the 1M showing that the car is way underrated. I don't know if they all match numbers for Z4 dynoes. I also remember clearly from early interviews with the M engineers and executives, saying that they re-worked the z4is engine and found power everywhere. If I would be a better internet searcher I would provide you with the exact interviews. For now, the only "proof" if you need one, is I can remind you the fact that 1M comes with an M button or sport mode (not identical to the one in Z4) which changes the throttle response sharply. I believe precisely because of the M mode plus the MDM software (also not identical but similar with the DTC in Z4) and being a manual gearbox with specific gear ratios the engineers had to play with the mapping of the N54T engine for the 1M, just to "suit" it for that car. I am not and have never been talking about any major change.

If 1Ms have more power than the Z4is I really don't know about it and don't care as well. It wouldn't be a surprise for me to find out they really do have more power, since 1M history is all about underrating the car since day 1, in performance numbers, engine output, official lap times etc. These are out of the scope of this conversation, but you must have heard about them. I always believed that the Z4is engine was the best choice for a small M car and they just did what I was dreaming of and am happy about that, end of story. If like you said here as well back in February 2011 (I was searching an interview and found this on this very same topic, your words) you are commenting as follows:

"The main difference is in the wrapping materials they use for the two engines, and of course the taste of the people who buy them.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. It shows the 35is engine was good enough for an M car afterall."

All I was saying that, yes I agree with that but there is some (minor) work that had to be done on the engine to make it work the way that the engineers wanted it work in 1M, be it providing more power or not, they had to re-work on some minor issues.

If I loose my job and my family and have enough time to spend in internet, I will make an extensive search for you In the meantime don't worry a bit I gladly accept that they are basically the same engine with same/similar outputs.
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      04-11-2012, 03:52 PM   #69
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oooh man here we go....
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      04-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #70
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I can settle this very easily.

I have both (Z435iS and a 1M). My Z4 is actually quicker than our 1M, that is until you come to the first bend.

Then the Z4 doesn't see where the 1M went.

Both fantastic cars that do different things. Both with exactly the same engine (apart from the plastic cover with the badge).

Mapping is different to match the manual verses DCT but non M mode in the 1M is very unresponsive compared to M mode.

They did this for a reason and to be fair probably to make the car less jumpy in traffic and to give that "wow" factor when you hit it.
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      04-11-2012, 05:03 PM   #71
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Dont we all just love people who come to our forum to tell us why they believe their car is better than our cars?

Why then do these visitors to our house act so surprised when we ask them to explain themselves?

Why would a 1M owner be so threatened by the fact that their car shares some parts with non-///M cars?

Heaven help them if they find out the door handles were not specially cast out of a similar but bespoke mold using hyper futuristic alloys that shaved 3.5 grams off the cars weight while still maintaining the classic BMW interior design styling.

Notice to the world: Back your claims with facts or keep your disparaging opinions and beliefs on your own forum.
Making excuses of being too busy or important to find evidence to back up your claims and making veiled insults at those who have time to research their facts are not ways to make friends and influence people.

Dyno results as requested... Taken from my Video so apologies for the grainy images.
The 3kW difference is meaningless. Both cars had runs that morning with bigger spreads, and the 35iS was running half a tank of 95 RON as opposed to the 98 RON in the 1M.
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Last edited by Dr Stig 2; 04-11-2012 at 09:59 PM..
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      04-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #72
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Well said, Dr.
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      04-11-2012, 08:37 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2 View Post
Dont we all just love people who come to our forum to tell us why they believe their car is better than our cars?

Why then do these visitors to our house act so surprised when we ask them to explain themselves?

Why would a 1M owner be so threatened by the fact that their car shares some parts with non-///M cars?

Heaven help them if they find out the door handles were not specially cast out of a similar but bespoke mold using hyper futuristic alloys that shaved 3.5 grams off the cars weight while still maintaining the classic BMW interior design styling.

Notice to the world: Back your claims with facts or keep your disparaging opinions and beliefs on your own forum.
Making excuses of being too busy or important to find evidence to back up your claims and making veiled insults at those who have time to research their facts are not ways to make friends and influence people.
You live in virtual space don't you? Sorry to waste my and other people's time with this.
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      04-11-2012, 08:39 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Andy View Post
I can settle this very easily.

I have both (Z435iS and a 1M). My Z4 is actually quicker than our 1M, that is until you come to the first bend.

Then the Z4 doesn't see where the 1M went.

Both fantastic cars that do different things. Both with exactly the same engine (apart from the plastic cover with the badge).

Mapping is different to match the manual verses DCT but non M mode in the 1M is very unresponsive compared to M mode.

They did this for a reason and to be fair probably to make the car less jumpy in traffic and to give that "wow" factor when you hit it.
Very well and fair enough. Thank you for first hand clarification.
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      04-11-2012, 11:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Very well and fair enough. Thank you for first hand clarification.
The real power change between the N54 35i, 35is/1M engines is software - no searching around for bits of horsepower here and there. That's old school performance your talking about my friend. Besides, Dinan has them all beat.

Diana Stage III.

Nobody here has said the Z4 handles better than the 1M. That's what we're all asking BMW to produce. Give us a true Z4 ///M then we'll see.
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 04-12-2012 at 12:12 AM..
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      04-12-2012, 02:03 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2 View Post
The 1M engine is already an offshoot of the Z4 35iS engine. (direct transplant with a new sticker)
Bringing it back into a Z4 is not possible when it is already in a Z4 production model.


I do wish they had put the ///M Power rocker cover on the 35iS as they did on the 1M.
Open the bonnet and you get "BMW Twin Power" on our engine and the 1M boys get "BMW ///M Power" on theirs.
If they were soooo busy putting ///M badges all over the 35iS, why couldn't they acknowledge the engine was the most ///M bit and put a sticker there for us?

I'd trade the door sills, the speedo and steering wheel badges all for that engine cover. Let's face it, it is the only performance enhancing thing they changed on the 35iS, so it shoudl be the only thing that gets a ///M badge.
Just one thing about the rumored new Z4M35, it would not have the same engine as the current Z4 35iS because the current engine is the N54 "iS" or N54T (same as 1M) instead the Z4M35 would have the "is" version of the N55 with 320HP, that's a difference where you might encounter the why of the renaming situation.
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      04-12-2012, 03:47 AM   #77
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Re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jprooney View Post
Just one thing about the rumored new Z4M35, it would not have the same engine as the current Z4 35iS because the current engine is the N54 "iS" or N54T (same as 1M) instead the Z4M35 would have the "is" version of the N55 with 320HP, that's a difference where you might encounter the why of the renaming situation.
Yep i'd agree the new M135 is just that with a N55....

Also getting back to the 1M. BMW released this car as a "Halo" model to raise awareness and shift dead metal before the new 1 series hit the road.

To do this cheaply they raided the parts bin (and why not the parts bin is mega good).

Audi did the same with the RS3 and at the same time.

The 1M (as was the RS3) was a marketing ploy but it actually turned out to be a very special car and already a classic.

Z4 still makes me smile more on a sunny day though
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      04-12-2012, 08:13 AM   #78
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Thanks for the clarification Dr - interesting to note the top end power seems to be maintained on the 1M rather than dropping off sharply on the 35is. Could be a freer-flowing exhaust/mapping and/or the benefit of the 98 octane?
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      04-12-2012, 08:37 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Andy View Post
I can settle this very easily.

I have both (Z435iS and a 1M). My Z4 is actually quicker than our 1M, that is until you come to the first bend.

Then the Z4 doesn't see where the 1M went.

Both fantastic cars that do different things. Both with exactly the same engine (apart from the plastic cover with the badge).

Mapping is different to match the manual verses DCT but non M mode in the 1M is very unresponsive compared to M mode.

They did this for a reason and to be fair probably to make the car less jumpy in traffic and to give that "wow" factor when you hit it.
What kind of tires are on the 35is?
What kind of tires are on the 1M?
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      04-12-2012, 11:45 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35iDriver View Post
What kind of tires are on the 35is?
What kind of tires are on the 1M?
Runflats on Z4 and normal BMW specific Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s on 1M. Advantage for 1M.
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      04-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alext View Post
Thanks for the clarification Dr - interesting to note the top end power seems to be maintained on the 1M rather than dropping off sharply on the 35is. Could be a freer-flowing exhaust/mapping and/or the benefit of the 98 octane?
I think the exhaust is different on the 1M, at least I never heard the "drone" problem with Z4is which is very very common (majority of the cars) with the 1Ms. We owners already started to switch to N55 midpipes or MadDad's to increase flow, high rpm revving and throttle response (in non M or default mode) in our cars. These alternatives are reported to minimize drone problem as well.
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      04-12-2012, 11:54 AM   #82
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Dyno results as requested... Taken from my Video so apologies for the grainy images.
The 3kW difference is meaningless. Both cars had runs that morning with bigger spreads, and the 35iS was running half a tank of 95 RON as opposed to the 98 RON in the 1M.

Thanks for posting, I was expecting to see this. Like you said the "peak" power difference is meaningless. I still suspect the mapping might be different, to suit different characteristics of both cars.
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      04-12-2012, 12:03 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Andy View Post
Yep i'd agree the new M135 is just that with a N55....

Also getting back to the 1M. BMW released this car as a "Halo" model to raise awareness and shift dead metal before the new 1 series hit the road.

To do this cheaply they raided the parts bin (and why not the parts bin is mega good).

Audi did the same with the RS3 and at the same time.

The 1M (as was the RS3) was a marketing ploy but it actually turned out to be a very special car and already a classic.

Z4 still makes me smile more on a sunny day though
All true, I agree, including the last sentence (had a deposit on Z4is just before managing to have a quote for the 1M).

For me Z4 is more fun in normal driving, double car characteristics, a more elegant car, better quality in and out and has THE engine. I chose the 1M over it because it really feels more special to me, a manual only car, very old school, has the chassis/suspension to match the engine and gives you more practicality with back seats (really useable) and bigger trunk. Plus it costs less. I couldn't have the both.
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      04-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
Runflats on Z4 and normal BMW specific Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s on 1M. Advantage for 1M.
Absolutely, the tires make a hige difference.

Many of us Z4 owners have switched off the runflats. I switched to Michelin Pilot Super Sports. HUGE difference in handling!!! It's almost like driving a different car.

I'd be interested to see how they compared if you were to swap the runflats with the non runflats on the Z4 and 1M.

Last edited by 35iDriver; 04-12-2012 at 12:36 PM..
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      04-12-2012, 03:12 PM   #85
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Re:

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Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
All true, I agree, including the last sentence (had a deposit on Z4is just before managing to have a quote for the 1M).

For me Z4 is more fun in normal driving, double car characteristics, a more elegant car, better quality in and out and has THE engine. I chose the 1M over it because it really feels more special to me, a manual only car, very old school, has the chassis/suspension to match the engine and gives you more practicality with back seats (really useable) and bigger trunk. Plus it costs less. I couldn't have the both.

The 1M does feels cheap and dated (vastly so in some areas) in comparison to the Z4 but the 1M is better screwed together.

I've had serious build issues with both my E89's on arrival (especially the paint).

Perhaps I have just been unlucky. All our other BMWs have been flawless.

Still the Z4 is by far my fav car. I love driving it so much and as I have a disability the daft push pull gear change is perfect for me.

Apart from droping £200,000 on a 458 Spider there is nothing else that comes close for me.
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      04-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Andy View Post
Apart from droping £200,000 on a 458 Spider there is nothing else that comes close for me.
Amen.

Add to that they cost $600K here, pushing them that much closer to being unreachable...
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      04-12-2012, 05:12 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35iDriver View Post
Absolutely, the tires make a hige difference.

Many of us Z4 owners have switched off the runflats. I switched to Michelin Pilot Super Sports. HUGE difference in handling!!! It's almost like driving a different car.

I'd be interested to see how they compared if you were to swap the runflats with the non runflats on the Z4 and 1M.
I also switched to Michelin PSS, I am probably among the first to make that with the 1M, I just waited 550kms. with the stocks and they are reserve tires now. If I could I would do it the day of delivery cause I believe 1M should be the first new M car to have them as stock fitment but it just didn't happen. The car is smoother, has much better traction in all gears and conditions, handles better, a win-win tire, fits like a glove to the 1M.

With the PSS on Z4is and a run-flat on 1M, they would be closer maybe real close but the M3 borrowed wheels, brakes, whole suspension and steering are also there so it is difficult to imagine that just the tire swap would make the situation upside down, but would be interesting to see how much a tire can change.
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      04-12-2012, 05:22 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4Andy View Post
The 1M does feels cheap and dated (vastly so in some areas) in comparison to the Z4 but the 1M is better screwed together.

I've had serious build issues with both my E89's on arrival (especially the paint).

Perhaps I have just been unlucky. All our other BMWs have been flawless.

Still the Z4 is by far my fav car. I love driving it so much and as I have a disability the daft push pull gear change is perfect for me.

Apart from droping £200,000 on a 458 Spider there is nothing else that comes close for me.
The 1M is the most rock solid car I have driven and this includes a e90 330i I had before and many other different cars. The outdated interior is a fact and it doesn't bother me a bit, in fact I like the simplicity of the car, for 1M it feels natural and it is quite ergonomic. Maybe I feel like this because am not a fan of electronics or monitors in cars and ordered mine without a satnav and idrive, or a power seat. I think it is much better like this. Most plastics feel hard and cheap though. I wanna cover all the plastic areas with alcantara sometimes! The paint quality is equally bad in the 1M, strange that even z4 is not immune from this disease. I hope this is not a trend in BMW, my 1997 318ti had a better paint job.
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