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      07-14-2012, 06:25 AM   #23
Atebit
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Given the car is an 09 & the price the dealer charged to remove it, it sounds like a non-PNP module, but that's by no means conclusive. While I do love the smart top, seeing pictures like this do make me cringe.

Glad the OP got it worked out, but I can only hope newer ST hardware and firmware is free of these issues.
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      07-15-2012, 03:43 PM   #24
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This was the device they removed

Probably the older style.
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      07-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #25
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Eek--I have the newer style unit installed and have been monitoring these threads to see whether I should remove it. The only issue I've ever had was where I walked away from my car one time and came back to it an hour or two later only to find the roof in the half raised, stacked position. It went down fine, though, and I haven't had any issues since. I'm not sure what caused it. Luckily, thats the position the roof would need to be in for you to get the unit out, but still scary to imagine that happening during a thunderstorm.

I also would never consider installing the original version of the module with all those different cables. That's asking for trouble, I think.
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      07-16-2012, 06:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstone_ttlz4 View Post
Eek--I have the newer style unit installed and have been monitoring these threads to see whether I should remove it. The only issue I've ever had was where I walked away from my car one time and came back to it an hour or two later only to find the roof in the half raised, stacked position. It went down fine, though, and I haven't had any issues since. I'm not sure what caused it. Luckily, thats the position the roof would need to be in for you to get the unit out, but still scary to imagine that happening during a thunderstorm.

I also would never consider installing the original version of the module with all those different cables. That's asking for trouble, I think.
You may have accidentally activated the trunk access position?
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      07-18-2012, 11:24 AM   #27
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Wow after hearing about all these comments it really makes me think if I should remove mine even tho I've just fixed it up.
I wonder if The module is responding to other remotes in the area resulting in the accidental roof lowering.
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      07-19-2012, 10:12 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fre2bpowerless View Post
Figure if I ever have an issue, I'd blame it on the faulty fuel pumps. *wink wink nudge nudge*
Funny, but I will not take the bait. Okay, maybe a little - BMWNA bastards and my crappy local dealer!!!
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      07-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///MIKE View Post
Wow after hearing about all these comments it really makes me think if I should remove mine even tho I've just fixed it up.
I wonder if The module is responding to other remotes in the area resulting in the accidental roof lowering.
It shouldn't. Here's a reply from Mods4Cars which they've asked me to post in their behalf:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mods4Cars
Thanks for bringing this to my attention! Since we're not allowed to post on forums (being the manufacturer of a product in question), could you please ask the other guy to contact me with the serial number of his module so I can find out which version of the module he has. It is unfortunate, that these cars (packed with electronics) tend to fail sometimes and the first thing people assume it, that our product is to blame. It is of course tricky to "prove" anything and the dealership sure is happy to find something to get out of providing warranty service. As an electronics engineer and actually the person who designed, developed and programmed the firmware for the
smarttop module I can tell you that I think it should be impossible for the module to damage anything in the car UNLESS you are going 100 mph after starting a top-open cycle while the top is still moving.

Just think of the data bus as a computer network and then try to imagine how would it be possible with pure data communication to "break" another computer on the network? In the other case posted, how would data commands coming from our module possibly be able to physically short out a trunk release? In other words, no matter how loud you would try to scream into a telephone, the earpiece on the
other side would never break, because the signal levels are limited.

Same here. There are only so many valid data command the module can transmit and the car electronics either accepts them the same way it would accept the same command coming from the key remote or the top switch or it rejects them (say for example the trunk is open and you try to use the top).

The module, seen from the car's electronics side, is nothing more than an intelligent monkey holding a switch for you while monitoring the
status of the ongoing operation.

We would definitely appreciate if you could either post my statement on the forum or clarify otherwise, that it is not proven that the smarttop caused any problems. We would not want others to be scared away, just because two unrelated incidents that happened by
coincidence with a module installed. I wonder how many other electrical problems have been discussed by members on the forum,
only that the one common denominator "I installed a smarttop module" is missing.

I can assure you, we put greatest effort into developing and testing the module and especially with the latest version with plug-and-play wiring I am very confident in saying that I don't believe that (if installed properly) there is any way for it to "break" anything in the car.
I've known the guys at M4C for a number of years throughout different generations of BMWs and can say they are very thorough in testing, as most of it has been developed on site using our autologic tool.

Maybe even borderline OCD at times, which isn't a bad thing
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      07-21-2012, 06:07 PM   #30
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Well, I'll have to say but perhaps I've been tempting fate, but I've had my PnP version of the SmartTop installed for several months no with NO issues. I've DEINSTALLED it and RE-INSTALLED it four times now in preparation for taking it in for service. I'm able to do this in probably 15 minutes. Hearing these problems scares me a bit, but my experiences have been very positive and the benefits of having the SmartTOP are enough to keep me using it.

Some main observations here:

(1) When installing the SmartTop, OR when deinstalling it and plugging the original connectors back together again, you have to make sure you plug in the connectors properly. It took me a few times to figure out how to get the connectors to attach properly. If you don't do it properly, it may appear that the top does not open or close at all. I know now to "angle" the connectors a certain way before connecting them to make sure the contacts are mated correctly.

Now, I originally thought this was a problem with the SmartTop PnP connector until I realized that this same issue occurred when I de-installed the SmartTop and it occurred with the original connectors. So, I think it's a matter of technique to make sure that the connectors mate properly. I know what it is supposed to "feel" like when it's done properly now, since I've done it a few times now.

(2) When installing/de-installing, you pull the trunk cover all the way up in order to access the area. However, BE CAREFUL that you don't leave it in this position as you test out the top. I make it a habit to move the trunk cover all the way to the "down" position in case I accidentally or intentionally test putting the top down. I wouldn't want to see what happens if I put the top down while the trunk cover is still in the UP position.

Last edited by lcheong; 07-21-2012 at 06:21 PM..
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      07-21-2012, 11:06 PM   #31
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I am the OP of this thread and mine was the older one that was not the plug n play version. However I did have it installed for 9 months or so and it worked beautifully so I have no doubts about it not being installed correctly (I did it myself). I also would have problems with my headlight leveler getting stuck in the down position and was almost dangerous to drive from time to time and then would self correct. Of course the dealer says it was the ST causing that also but I must say it has not occurred since I de-installed it. The newer plug and play version has hopefully resolved any of these possible issues?.?.
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      07-22-2012, 03:56 AM   #32
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      07-25-2012, 05:04 AM   #33
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I have the older version STLFBW1 and have noticed that my battery becomes discharged overtime. This is due to the smartTop module not allowing the car to sleep.. The idrive light/engine start button/park break light will stay on too...

Anyone else have this problem? Tom@eas can you help out?

The module has the most recent updated firmware.

Thanks
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      07-26-2012, 06:31 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur_Up
I have the older version STLFBW1 and have noticed that my battery becomes discharged overtime. This is due to the smartTop module not allowing the car to sleep.. The idrive light/engine start button/park break light will stay on too...

Anyone else have this problem? Tom@eas can you help out?

The module has the most recent updated firmware.

Thanks
IIRC there was a a suggested wiring update posted on the mods4cars site for the early version of the non-PnP that were causing this problem, though I can't seem to find it now. If you go to their site & submit a support request along with the serial number of your module, maybe they can send it to you. Unfortunately they discontinued their support forums so you can't ask there.

I remember seeing this "tech note" on their site when i was originally considering the module. By the time I got around to buying it, they had already released the PnP module.
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      07-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atebit View Post
IIRC there was a a suggested wiring update posted on the mods4cars site for the early version of the non-PnP that were causing this problem, though I can't seem to find it now. If you go to their site & submit a support request along with the serial number of your module, maybe they can send it to you. Unfortunately they discontinued their support forums so you can't ask there.

I remember seeing this "tech note" on their site when i was originally considering the module. By the time I got around to buying it, they had already released the PnP module.


Thanks for ur help, I found the solution in this thread for anyone else who may have this problem.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=479099
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      07-26-2012, 11:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timwhayden View Post
I am the OP of this thread and mine was the older one that was not the plug n play version. However I did have it installed for 9 months or so and it worked beautifully so I have no doubts about it not being installed correctly (I did it myself). I also would have problems with my headlight leveler getting stuck in the down position and was almost dangerous to drive from time to time and then would self correct. Of course the dealer says it was the ST causing that also but I must say it has not occurred since I de-installed it. The newer plug and play version has hopefully resolved any of these possible issues?.?.
SmartTop communicates with the CVM (convertible top) module only, it has no access to the headlamp module (FRM).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur_Up View Post
I have the older version STLFBW1 and have noticed that my battery becomes discharged overtime. This is due to the smartTop module not allowing the car to sleep.. The idrive light/engine start button/park break light will stay on too...

Anyone else have this problem? Tom@eas can you help out?

The module has the most recent updated firmware.

Thanks
Older modules (2+ years, M4C will be able to determine your module version by your serial number) will require the power line be run directly to the battery to allow the module to properly enter sleep mode.

All current modules are PnP, and do not need this step.
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      07-27-2012, 11:13 AM   #37
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I had assumed that my paying BMW $453 to remove the Smart Top module would have put this behind us. However, yesterday I applied for 7/70,000 Platinum Extended Warranty from BMW and they deemed the car ineligible due to the Smart Top installation. We appealed and I even sent them a copy of the invoice for the work to no avail.
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      09-10-2013, 04:51 PM   #38
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Question for current SmartTop owners: has anyone had any issues since this thread?
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      09-10-2013, 09:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morfinx View Post
Question for current SmartTop owners: has anyone had any issues since this thread?
no
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      09-11-2013, 03:10 AM   #40
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Just 4 threads below:

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=884835
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      09-11-2013, 01:13 PM   #41
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Quote:
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I've seen and posted in that thread. Most initial issues are caused by improper installation, i.e. connector not being fully seated. I'm more interested in long term reliability.
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      09-11-2013, 02:45 PM   #42
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Ah, sorry, didn't notice that.

So I can only report from a German forum: Earlier smarttop modules MAY contain a critical suppressor diode that MAY cause a Polyfuse in the module's protection circuit to blow. This can impair all canbus devices and the complete vehicle's electronics. Allegedly, only modules before 110119-xxx may be affected but can be updated (with a new circuit, software update is not sufficient).

http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index.php?threads/verdeck-modul-von-smart-top-liegt-z4-elektronik-komplett-larm.74905/page-8#post-1487301
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      09-11-2013, 02:45 PM   #43
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Ah, sorry, didn't notice that.

So I can only report from a German forum: Earlier smarttop modules MAY contain a critical suppressor diode that MAY cause a Polyfuse in the module's protection circuit to blow. This can impair all canbus devices and the complete vehicle's electronics. Allegedly, only modules before 110119-xxx may be affected but can be updated (with a new circuit, software update is not sufficient).

http://www.zroadster.com/forum/index.php?threads/verdeck-modul-von-smart-top-liegt-z4-elektronik-komplett-larm.74905/page-8#post-1487301
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      09-11-2013, 03:16 PM   #44
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well if the ST remained activated during the roll down feature and stcuk or hung ther eit would send a constant voltage to the motor in the lock on the trunk causng it to overheat and fail. They are part of the same circuit i think. I consider it suspect and sad cause i wanted one.
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