Thoughts on 2009 S35i offer

[B335T]

Hey all, currently thinking about trading my 07 335 for a s35 z4. I found this offer at a dealership and would like your opinion.

Space gray 09 s35i, w/ DCT

mileage: 26,786

Packages: Premium, cold, sport, Navigation

Price: $37,994

Thanks

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by B335T

Hey all, currently thinking about trading my 07 335 for a s35 z4. I found this offer at a dealership and would like your opinion.

Space gray 09 s35i, w/ DCT

mileage: 26,786

Packages: Premium, cold, sport, Navigation

Price: $37,994

Thanks

I am enjoying the DCT gearbox in my Z4 a great deal, but personally I am very hesitant to own a car from any manufacturer with a dual clutch gearbox that is about to go out of warranty.

My general understanding is that the clutches are a wear item (just like in a traditional 3 pedal manual) except that with the DCT you can't just change the clutch. You have to replace the entire gearbox, which is very expensive.

There isn't much long term data on this DCT durability and servicing cost, because cars like the one you posted about are among the first in the BMW line up to have the DCT and they are only 3-4 years old.

Given all of the lease deals you can negotiate on leftover 2012 Z4 35i right now I personally think it makes sense to just lease, enjoy the car, and let someone else deal with the hassle.

[35iDriver]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I am enjoying the DCT gearbox in my Z4 a great deal, but personally I am very hesitant to own a car from any manufacturer with a dual clutch gearbox that is about to go out of warranty.

My general understanding is that the clutches are a wear item (just like in a traditional 3 pedal manual) except that with the DCT you can't just change the clutch. You have to replace the entire gearbox, which is very expensive.

There isn't much long term data on this DCT durability and servicing cost, because cars like the one you posted about are among the first in the BMW line up to have the DCT and they are only 3-4 years old.

Given all of the lease deals you can negotiate on leftover 2012 Z4 35i right now I personally think it makes sense to just lease, enjoy the car, and let someone else deal with the hassle.

I'm sure there are a number of folks selling their used Z4s e89s right now that would take serious offense to that kind of comment, but the person above is entitled to their own opinion.

In reality an automatic transmission (or semi automatic in this case) is built to last much, much longer than 26k miles, unless it was seriously abused.

However, potential 35i DCT buyers can probably make a rational decision based on both the absolute stellar maintence record for the DCT since its inception as well as all the glowing reviews it has received from experts and owners alike.

I'm keeping my 35i well past the 48 month warranty period end (which is July 2013), without a worry, since I know how the car has been driven and maintained since it had 5 miles on it the day I took delivery. Not every used car is a hassle someone wants to give to someone else.

At this point you still have the remaining mileage and time remaining on the warranty and the price they are asking looks like a steal, compared to what used Z4s are fetching in AZ.

[nicknaz]

Agreed, 35iDriver, that there's dependency on how the car was driven and maintained. As well as how long the OP would like to keep the car.

That's the thing with cars from dealers though, right? You don't know who used to own it, how they used it and how the dealership employees drove it when it was traded in.

Besides, what is "seriously abused" anyway? If the owner warms up the car to operating temperature and accelerates from every stop using full throttle in sport + (which revs the motor up then slips the clutch to launch quickly) or always uses full throttle upshifts at the redline to merge onto the highway, then changes engine oil every 15k miles per the manufacturer, is that serious abuse or is that just normal expected use by someone who leased and knows they aren't keeping thecar? I know that I personally wouldn't like to have long term ownership of that particular machine.

Anyway, I didn't mean to come across as being offensive or controversial but just wanted to share a point of view.

If OP is going to keep for only 3yr or something, might be similar cost to just lease the thing

[Jayda]

Strictly from a price standpoint I bought my 2009 35i with 4,500 miles as a BMW certified preowned for 41,000 (purchased last October). It is DCT, has premium package, sport package, navigation, premium sound, heated seats, satellite radio, 19 inch wheels and adaptive m suspension. I like that is is under at least a preowned warranty until December 2015. I never considered the long term liability of a dual clutch transmission. All I can say is I love this car....sexy fast and a real eye catcher! I never lease cars as I tend to drive more miles per year than typically allowed in a lease.

[Romer]

seems like a great price based on the research I did in June when I bought mine.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by 35iDriver

I'm sure there are a number of folks selling their used Z4s e89s right now that would take serious offense to that kind of comment, but the person above is entitled to their own opinion.

In reality an automatic transmission (or semi automatic in this case) is built to last much, much longer than 26k miles, unless it was seriously abused.

However, potential 35i DCT buyers can probably make a rational decision based on both the absolute stellar maintence record for the DCT since its inception as well as all the glowing reviews it has received from experts and owners alike.

I'm keeping my 35i well past the 48 month warranty period end (which is July 2013), without a worry, since I know how the car has been driven and maintained since it had 5 miles on it the day I took delivery. Not every used car is a hassle someone wants to give to someone else.

At this point you still have the remaining mileage and time remaining on the warranty and the price they are asking looks like a steal, compared to what used Z4s are fetching in AZ.

Take offense? I thought he was being rather non-judgmental in his post. Either way, you can't argue that a manual gearbox will outlive a DCT or any auto tranny. From a mechanical standpoint, it's indisputable. I think that was his point.

[B335T]

Thanks for all the advice. The car is a BMW CPO, not sure whether that will make a diff in how it was previously maintained etc... I am hoping the bmw technicians really do inspect the car for defects, but my 07 335 was a CPO and did not suffer any problems, but I know that will not apply for every CPO, it's just the peace of mind knowing that the car is CPO'd. I do plan on keeping the z4 for a long time, it will basically become a garage queen, and will only be taken out during the weekend and days off. I was mostly concerned about the HPFP, the frequent complaints of the wheel crack on the 269's(which I may ask the CA to swap for 326's) and the possibility of the hardtop mechanics failing. Are there many issues regarding problems with the hardtop becoming stuck in place or not properly working?

[teagueAMX]

I personally love manual transmissions, so what I'm about to say is not an endorsement either way. Having said that, I personally believe DCT transmissions will have the longevity and trouble free nature associated with an automatic transmissions, but with far few parts. They are already proving that which is evidenced by the rate they are being adopted throughout the automotive industry.

Point 1: For all practical purposes, even though a DCT is shifted in a computer controlled manner like a modern automatic transmission (yes even in manual mode), its internal parts are virtually identical to a traditional manual transmission. They have individual gears, central shafts, selector forks etc. The only real difference is the clutch setup.

Point 2: The DCT in the Z4 has a dual wet clutch system that are used alternately. This is not to be confused with a double clutch (like older sports cars) where both clutches are engaged at the same time. This mean the each DCT clutch is getting half the wear associated with shifts that a normal manual transmissions clutch system experiences.

Point 3: The DCT dual wet clutches are virtually identical to automatic transmission clutch pack friction disks. From a mechanical design these are a hugely successful design because they are constantly bathed in fluid to keep them cool and to reduce wear from friction. In a well maintained automatic transmission clutch pack friction disks can last 100,000 miles. That can't be said for a manual transmission clutch.

Point 4: The biggest killer or problem with a manual transmission is not the transmission itself, but the clutch. The biggest problem there is the operator (i.e., excessive slippage). The 2nd problem is poor linkage adjustment that controls the clutch, which also results in slippage or poor engagement. The DCT does not have that problem. As noted, DCT clutches are computer controlled and operated in mill-seconds open to close.

[mpbruin108]

Originally Posted by B335T

Hey all, currently thinking about trading my 07 335 for a s35 z4. I found this offer at a dealership and would like your opinion.

Space gray 09 s35i, w/ DCT

mileage: 26,786

Packages: Premium, cold, sport, Navigation

Price: $37,994

Thanks

Based on price, I got my car with same options as you got without navigation BUT with CPO until 2016 (or was it 2015) for about 37,250. I had about 29k miles when I bought mine. So does a Navigation system equal CPO?

[B335T]

Originally Posted by mpbruin108

Based on price, I got my car with same options as you got without navigation BUT with CPO until 2016 (or was it 2015) for about 37,250. I had about 29k miles when I bought mine. So does a Navigation system equal CPO?

Dude I have no idea, I'll find out this coming weekend though lol. Are CPO's price negotiable?

[35iDriver]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Take offense? I thought he was being rather non-judgmental in his post. Either way, you can't argue that a manual gearbox will outlive a DCT or any auto tranny. From a mechanical standpoint, it's indisputable. I think that was his point.

I may have been a bit harsh.

[snk]

Originally Posted by B335T

Dude I have no idea, I'll find out this coming weekend though lol. Are CPO's price negotiable?

Everything in life is negotiable

[mpbruin108]

Originally Posted by snk

Everything in life is negotiable

Oh yeah, try telling that to the irs

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by 35iDriver

I may have been a bit harsh.

I didn't think so, no worries

Good luck with the purchase OP, sorry to take your thread off topic.

I would really push the dealer hard OP. From my own experience shopping recently I believe you have a lot of leverage as a buyer. I was able to get my car for a little below dealer cost without much back and forth.

[B335T]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I didn't think so, no worries

Good luck with the purchase OP, sorry to take your thread off topic.

I would really push the dealer hard OP. From my own experience shopping recently I believe you have a lot of leverage as a buyer. I was able to get my car for a little below dealer cost without much back and forth.

Thanks I'll try my best lol.

[B335T]

My concern is that I know hardtop's add complexity and I would want to keep the car for 10-20 years. I've heard when these things go haywire they are a nightmare to repair mechanically and financially due to the difficulty in diagnosing a sensor or chip problem which these HT's are full of. I know it's still early to tell since the car came out 3 years ago, but anyone know if BMW made the HT solid enough to justify long term use?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by B335T

My concern is that I know hardtop's add complexity and I would want to keep the car for 10-20 years. I've heard when these things go haywire they are a nightmare to repair mechanically and financially due to the difficulty in diagnosing a sensor or chip problem which these HT's are full of. I know it's still early to tell since the car came out 3 years ago, but anyone know if BMW made the HT solid enough to justify long term use?

http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682055

Check out the file in the first post of that thread. I believe there is an entire section on the hardtop that lists out and describes all of the sensors and moving parts that enable the top to function.

Have you taken a look at 2008 E86 Z4 M by any chance? If mechanical complexity is a concern to you, my humble opinion is that folding hardtop, DCT gearbox and twin turbo direct injection motor should be taken into account when evaluating future repair costs and probability of part failure (i.e. more parts = more things that could fail).

[snk]

Originally Posted by mpbruin108

Oh yeah, try telling that to the irs

My bad.... "Everything in life is negotiable" except IRS and a pissed off wife

[mpbruin108]

Originally Posted by snk

My bad.... "Everything in life is negotiable" except IRS and a pissed off wife

touche