In Research Mode - '11/'12 Z4

[Boudreaux]

Hello All,

I'm in research mode for a convertible, and looking at the Z430i very closely.
I realize this car comes with a 4 year maintenance program, but I'm looking down the road.

Is this car one that has easy oil changes, or does it require going to the dealer for oil changes, and greasing.

Thanks for any info.....!!!


Boudreaux
from Cajun Country

[jpd]

I may be wrong, but self change oil is not on. Greasing????????? don't think that it's needed. Intending to buy????? Lease?????

German options like Mercedes and Audi will be the same not to mention Boxsters. If this is important you may need to look to North American Pony Cars.

[Boudreaux]

Thanks for your quick reply.

The car will not be a daily driver (garage kept), so oil changes will probably be once a year (at the most). It will end up being a low mileage vehicle.

But I have to wonder if it's so complicated that it has to be a dealer service just to change the oil.

I love the looks of this car, especially the hard top convertible. The North American Pony Cars seem to leave a little to be desired after looking into the Z4.

Thanks again.....!!!

[Jordanpryce]

You won't have a problem changing your own oil and filter. You will need some metric tools though! Enjoy!!!

[persian54]

dealer pays for your oil changes

[Dr Stig 2]

Originally Posted by persian54

dealer pays for your oil changes

And the specialty oil they use in the Z4 is not cheap. Let them pay if they will.

[HerrK]

Originally Posted by Boudreaux

Is this car one that has easy oil changes, or does it require going to the dealer for oil changes, and greasing.

The oil filter canister can be accessed under the hood. If your familiar with BMW's you simply remove the can cover and put in a new paper element. Draining the oil is easy. I do find it easier to do if I remove the plastic belly pan, about 18 twist lock fasteners.

OK so BMW will do your oil changes every 15K miles or once a year whatever comes first. I did my first change at 5K. My one year "Dealer" change came at 11K. I will get another change at about 16K when the computer racks it up, as the dealer does not reset the oil miles at the one year change. From here on out I will change about every 7.5K.

When I took over service & maintenance on the wifes BMW it had gone through the normal BMW change activity @ 15K miles. At 100K miles I removed & replaced the valve cover gasket as it was old and leaking. The top end was relatively sludge free. So the 15K intervals are probably OK, but for peace of mind I will cut these in half for the Z.

Mobil 1 European car formula oil (BMW approved) is $6.50 @ Walmart (7 qt capacity) Filters are about $10. Peace of mind Priceless.

[richard in NC]

Per another thread, you'll need a high quality low profile jack to get the car up in the air.

[vinlikesred]

let the dealer do it, and once the warranty expires, pass the problem to somebody else.

i love german cars but i believe they become a headache once the warranty expires.

[skier219]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Per another thread, you'll need a high quality low profile jack to get the car up in the air.

Would low-profile ramps work? That's what I used for my S2K.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

let the dealer do it, and once the warranty expires, pass the problem to somebody else.

i love german cars but i believe they become a headache once the warranty expires.

+1

@ Boudreaux - German engineering may be great, but their quality control doesn't stack up very well against the Japanese makes. You'll want to get the extended warranty.

[Jordanpryce]

I don't agree. Stay away from the turbo versions and you'll have plenty of longevity. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles in german cars, and still own a 2000 VW Eurovan with 201,000 miles and nothing but regular maintenance.

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

+1

@ Boudreaux - German engineering may be great, but their quality control doesn't stack up very well against the Japanese makes. You'll want to get the extended warranty.

[cdeslandes]

For a low-mileage car I would recommend changing the oil at least twice a year. I follow a 5,000 miles/6 month schedule for my car.

My car is 15 months old and has only 9,400 miles (15,000 km) on it. I changed its oil at 1,600 miles (end of break-in period) then 5,000 miles later and it's been 6 months since then so it's off to the dealership on Monday.

I had to pay for the first 2 oil changes, we'll see if BMW agrees to pick up the third.

[cdeslandes]

Originally Posted by Jordanpryce

I don't agree. Stay away from the turbo versions and you'll have plenty of longevity. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles in german cars, and still own a 2000 VW Eurovan with 201,000 miles and nothing but regular maintenance.

Turbo doesn't have to equate short life. I know folks who've put 250,000 miles on turbocharged cars.

To be trouble-free with a turbo engine, take care of it like airplane owners take care of theirs:

• Allow the engine to warm up progressively (I stay under 3,000 RPM until the oil temp gauge starts moving, and under 4,000 until it's fully warm)
• Allow for a cool-down period for the turbo (after a "spirited" run, I drive like an old lady for the last mile before shutting down)
• Be conservative on oil changes (I follow a 6 month/5,000 miles schedule) and keep a clean air filter (I change mine every 10,000 to 12,000 miles)
• Use the highest octane rating fuel you can find (in the U.S. that means 93 or 94)

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by vinlikesred

let the dealer do it, and once the warranty expires, pass the problem to somebody else.

i love german cars but i believe they become a headache once the warranty expires.

I cannot agree with that. My daughter for example is driving my 2nd BMW a 535IS from 1987 the car now has over 250,000 miles on the odometer yes maintenance does cost, then what is $500- to $500- once in a while for maintenance if you don't have to worry about other break downs nd monthly maintenance.

A German car is build for the high speed of the Autobahn, so they are IMHO build much better then other cars and do lost a great deal longer.

Another point I drove a 2002 e46 M3 for 7 years nearly 90,000 Miles very little maintenance apart from oil changes after warranty and one spring replaced. I sold that car last year in tip top shape for $25,000-

Just my 2 cents

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

+1

@ Boudreaux - German engineering may be great, but their quality control doesn't stack up very well against the Japanese makes. You'll want to get the extended warranty.

Nice to see you visiting here I do agree German QA is moving somewhat down hill while the Japanese is improving all the time at least on the automotive side of things. The Germans better be on guard.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Nice to see you visiting here I do agree German QA is moving somewhat down hill while the Japanese is improving all the time at least on the automotive side of things. The Germans better be on guard.

Hi Rolf-Dieter. Hope all is well for you.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Jordanpryce

I don't agree. Stay away from the turbo versions and you'll have plenty of longevity. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles in german cars, and still own a 2000 VW Eurovan with 201,000 miles and nothing but regular maintenance.

I don't disagree with you. But did I say that German cars are poorly made - no.

But I stand by my statement, and frankly, I think if you look through many of the forum's current and archive comments, you'll find that German quality control doesn't match up to the Japanese - simple.

Following WWII, the Japanese were known to make some of the worst crap in the world. I remember as a kid born in 1956, the words "Made in Japan" stamped on an object meant it was junk. Why don't we say that today: because the Japanese desperate to improve adopted Deming's statistical approach to quality control and product improvement. No other country has adopted his methods to the extant that Japan has.

Reading some of the comments here, you have to wonder what quality control methodology BMW is using. But that's the problem with a quality control program - if it's not well designed and not rigorously adhered to, some product will be great and some will be less than great.

Having said all that - BMWs are fantastic cars! Enjoy

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Reading some of the comments here, you have to wonder what quality control methodology BMW is using. But that's the problem with a quality control program - if it's not well designed and not rigorously adhered to, some product will be great and some will be less than great.

So you are saying they need more quality control on their quality control?

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

So you are saying they need more quality control on their quality control?

I think what he is saying (as I read between the lines) some of the BMW top brass now mostly accountants need to be changed back to down to earth engineers you know accountants are penny pinchers trying to reduce costs everywhere (not a good idea on high end cars like a BMW).

Case in point; I had a e85 2008 Z4 is (before I had a e89 2009 Z4 3.5i). I only will comment on the e85, the casing on the rear mirror kept falling off the dealer finally fixed it then the plastic just above the ashtray kept falling off the dealer suggested I hate that perhaps we should weld a brace across it LOL. The e89 is another story, I no longer talk about it ,,, I've moved on, back into a M3.

My point on a $80K car things should not fall off or apart I am sure you agree.

Yes the BMW is a great automobile if they only move the accountants back into the accounting department all would be well.

[SANguru]

oh yeah?? kind of like the sludging issues with the lexus IS, ES, RX V6's that caused lexus to buy back a lot of the cars because the engines were prematurely dying?

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/es30...and-rx300.html

or the infiniti airbag recalls..
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/04/i...to-airbag-iss/

or honda recalling almost a million cars???

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rous-airbags/1

let's not forget the toyota fiascos. I'm not sure if you can really say japanese quality control is any better...

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

I don't disagree with you. But did I say that German cars are poorly made - no.

But I stand by my statement, and frankly, I think if you look through many of the forum's current and archive comments, you'll find that German quality control doesn't match up to the Japanese - simple.

Following WWII, the Japanese were known to make some of the worst crap in the world. I remember as a kid born in 1956, the words "Made in Japan" stamped on an object meant it was junk. Why don't we say that today: because the Japanese desperate to improve adopted Deming's statistical approach to quality control and product improvement. No other country has adopted his methods to the extant that Japan has.

Reading some of the comments here, you have to wonder what quality control methodology BMW is using. But that's the problem with a quality control program - if it's not well designed and not rigorously adhered to, some product will be great and some will be less than great.

Having said all that - BMWs are fantastic cars! Enjoy

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by SANguru

oh yeah?? kind of like the sludging issues with the lexus IS, ES, RX V6's that caused lexus to buy back a lot of the cars because the engines were prematurely dying?

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/es30...and-rx300.html

or the infiniti airbag recalls..
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/04/i...to-airbag-iss/

or honda recalling almost a million cars???

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...rous-airbags/1

let's not forget the toyota fiascos. I'm not sure if you can really say japanese quality control is any better...

OK so this could start a war of words, but I'll bite - let's just agree to not let it get heated, OK.

First, I'm not suggesting that Japanese cars are in any way superior to German cars.

Second, let's also agree that any alleged superiority is simply a matter of taste or sensibility to one manufacture's, or make's, or country's way of designing/building cars. Example: German car design has been described as austere, whereas (IMHO) Japanese cars tend to have more cup holders but they also tend to have more gizmos and gadgets. I prefer the minimalist approach.

Third: I have experience direct and indirect (friends, family) with Japanese and German makes. IMHO, up until a few years ago, MB was one of the worst. A couple of different friends had MB and crap was literally falling off those cars. I hear they're better now. Another friend bought an absolutely gorgeous used e46. Of course nobody really knows the history of a used car, and fortunately for him he pretty good mechanically because he's had to do some kind of repair almost every month he's owned it. Ironically, he bought the Bimmer because his Corvette was driving him crazy with repairs. On the other hand, a number of family/friends with Japanese makes have driven them virtually trouble free 'till the wheels fall off at 300,000 miles.

Forth: How would I contrast a Japanese car v. a German car - sure maybe the Bimmer may cost a bit more in repairs long term, but which car would I rather own long term. A Japanese car is a throw-away (excluding a few very exception models) - IMHO after a few years they look ugly and dated - sorry folks don't hate me just saying how I feel. A Bimmer is a keeper. But, I like mid-engined cars and I feel the Acura NSX -T is a fantastic, underrated sports car. There are others as well, including the Honda s2000 a very nice front engine design.

Firth: Everyone has a success story to counter anyone else's nightmare story. IMO both are valid.

To address your points, 1) You'll note that oil changes are a frequent topic here on the forum. Most people agree that changing at a more frequent interval is a good idea. You also have to admit that an oil change schedule printed in a book for the user is not a manufacturing design or quality control issue. 2) Note that two of the articles you mentioned are related to air bags. No manufacture is immune to an occasional design issue, but it wouldn't surprised me if it wasn't the same airbag supplier responsible for both problems. 3) I would agree Toyota dropped the ball on that issue and paid a heavy price. It was clear that Toyota's top brass acted stupidly, but you'll also notice that Toyota solved problem and not a peep has been heard since.

I would characterize a good quality control program as a extensive study of every failure and analyzing them statistically. That data has to feed back into your engineering design cycle. One explanation for Japan's fanatical dedication to this type of quality control is that it paved the path to their economic/national political recovery i.e., regaining their sovereignty and national pride. That methodology became deeply embedded in their corporate culture, which I would say doesn't exist in the US or European corporate culture.

Cheers