Don't plan on trading your Z4 anytime soon...

[twin turbo]

I have decided that I want an M3 and tried to trade my 2009 Z4 35i at 2 different dealers this weekend. I knew I was going to take a pretty big hit, boy was I in for a shock. My car stickered at $59,995, all options, 19" wheels, no Nav or premium sound. I was offered $36,000 at one dealer and $37,000 at the other. Both dealers told me the same story, 2010's are out and they have a $5,000 dealer incentive on them. One dealer showed me the wholesale invoice of a 2010 Z4 optioned exactly like my car, bottom line was $44,000. I thought at worst case my car would be worth $45K. They said why would I give you $44K for your car when I can order a new 2010 for the same price, hence the $37,000. I was also told that 85% of Z4's are leased, and BMW will not lease a car that has been titled limiting their customer base for the car. Needless to say I was pretty pissed off. $23,000 in depreciation in 5 months is ridiculous. I guess I purchased the wrong car at the wrong time.

[Memphis1]

sell it privately mate...

[bobbydog]

It's the same for all cars. When I bought my Z4 I had my 2008 m3 e90 evaluated, they would only give me 46k for it and I paid more for it than the Z4...You should go to Carmax and trade in your Z4 for a used M3.

[rmorin49]

I am not at all surprised. I am buying a brand new Z4 using ED and with the Holiday Cash and discount I am saving almost 13% off the US MSRP. Winter is a terrible time to trade a convertible, maybe not so much in Florida, but most of the rest of the US. Typically, most cars depreciate up to 20% the first year, often even more. The only way I was able to trade my 09 E93 335i for a Z4 is because it was a trade assist for an 07 E93 335i that I bought through ED. I only had about $50K in it and am getting $47K on a trade counting the Holiday Cash. You may find that CarMax will give you more cash than the dealers will offer in a trade. This was the case for me when I wanted to trade a MINI Cooper S convertible, I got $3K more in cash from CarMax than the BMW dealer was willing to give on a trade for a 335i. Same thing at a VW dealer. I ended up selling it to CarMax and paying cash for an R32.

[bobbydog]

Oh, so you'd feel better, I traded in a less than three years old $56K audi a6 this spring for $16K... that's $40K for three years, and it wasn't even fun to drive!

[Memphis1]

yeah, but thats a POS audi, that doesnt count... hehe j/k

[bingee]

Oh this makes me sick!!!!! I'm not planning on trading my Z anytime soon as I just got it in October. I seen the marking support offering 5,000 which I just lost because I thought I got a pretty good deal and did not want to wait until March to buy-what a mistake!

[bobbydog]

I wouldn't feel bad because of what the dealer tells you. They just want to make as much money as possible.
When I got my Z4, I could have leased it for 27 months with a residual of 41k at the end of the lease. So what are they telling you? That if I had leased it and want to return it now that they will make me pay them 6K to turn it in?
If you sold a Z4 to the dealer for 35k, they will turn around and sell it for 55k tomorrow giving some reason why it's better to buy a lightly used for 55k rather than spend 63 for a new one and they won't tell you about any discounts you may get.

[TarqZ4]

No one is winning buying new – my Z4 is a fun car I intend to keep for years.

If you buy a new car every year you need your head examining.

The Z4 as a second / third car can not be bettered in my opinion, there are not too many around, fast enough to stay infront of the hot hatches and not too flash to piss people off.

Does anybody really believe they will not lose money on a car purchase?

[mrboon]

just dont sell

[Otago]

My previous car i had was Toyota MRS, with me for 9 wonderful years (150000km). I intend to keep the z4 for at least 8 years before considering buying a new one which I think otherwise is totally waste of money.

[Rubber Ducky]

Sometimes it makes more sense to lease. It keeps you out of the used car business, not a field for amateurs...

[Oh Captain My Captain]

So those of us getting a 2010 model now will get screwed when the 2011 comes out in March. Do I have my information correct on the 2011 release?

[Vintage]

look - it is a very good time to buy cars but not sell them; plus, in this economy depreciation will be huge for ANY car (just look at the brand new 911)

[BlueZ4AZ]

What the stealership said sounds rational and all, but it is a crock of S%^T. Sometimes they think we are idiots. Makes me laugh.

The trade-in value is based on what the stealership could sell it for at auction (wholesale), IF they do not happen to sell it (retail) as a used car on their own lot first. The incentives/mfg discounts on new cars have absolutely no affect on auction values. A $60k MSRP 2009 Z4 would probably sell for $46-$48k at auction right now. There's your real trade-in figure if you had to trade-in right NOW.

In addition, since the dealers have this $5k incentive from the BMW on 2010's, you better believe that that is ALL the discount the stealerships will try to offer for a while, since 2010 just started. They may end up having to discount a little more in some instances. So, a $60k MSRP 2010 will sell for about $54- $55k. That means they could sell a used 2009, with the same features/options for around $48 -$50k.

The best thing to do is keep the car longer....

If you plan on keeping your 2009 4 years before selling it, like I do, then you spread the depreciation out 48 months. The car will hardy depreciate at all during year 4, while the car is either paid off or your loan payments are paying off huge chunks of principle each month.

In 4 years, the discounts/MSRP/Selling Prices on the new 2013's won't affect the resale price of a 2009 model, as you will be selling to a completely different market.

The longer you keep the car the less affect the sale price of the new model year has on the value of your car when trying to sell it to another private party.

[Chuck76]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

I have decided that I want an M3 and tried to trade my 2009 Z4 35i at 2 different dealers this weekend. I knew I was going to take a pretty big hit, boy was I in for a shock. My car stickered at $59,995, all options, 19" wheels, no Nav or premium sound. I was offered $36,000 at one dealer and $37,000 at the other. Both dealers told me the same story, 2010's are out and they have a $5,000 dealer incentive on them. One dealer showed me the wholesale invoice of a 2010 Z4 optioned exactly like my car, bottom line was $44,000. I thought at worst case my car would be worth $45K. They said why would I give you $44K for your car when I can order a new 2010 for the same price, hence the $37,000. I was also told that 85% of Z4's are leased, and BMW will not lease a car that has been titled limiting their customer base for the car. Needless to say I was pretty pissed off. $23,000 in depreciation in 5 months is ridiculous. I guess I purchased the wrong car at the wrong time.

Twin, just curious as to why you are attempting to switch from the Z4 to M3. Something you don't like?

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by Chuck76

Twin, just curious as to why you are attempting to switch from the Z4 to M3. Something you don't like?

You know what caused this, I just leased my wife a new 2010 IS-F. I love the V8 and the DCT-like transmission. It's an absolute blast to drive. I wanted an M3 when I bought the Z4, didn't want to spend $75,000 at the time. I kidded myself that the Z4 and the convertible option (first convertible for me) would make me happy, but I love high horsepower cars. I traded a 640hp Shelby GT500 on the Z4. I commute 100 miles per day so I can't drive her car to work, just on the weekends. Just a stupid move on my part, should have spent the money at the time because it's going to cost me twice as much now.

Speaking of depreciation, I only lost $10,000 on the Shelby after 9 months and I traded it in at a BMW dealership. I tried to sell it privately, but got more as a trade in with the sales tax savings. Obviously the BMW dealership didn't want the Shelby, but I still got a fair price. A BMW dealership should want a perfectly maintained 2009 Z4 35i, especially since they don't have any used (E89) Z4's on their lot. A $23,000 depreciation on a BMW at a BMW dealership is just bullshit, that's 39%. I have never had a car depreciate this much in my entire life, and I have owned dozens of new cars. I am OCD, I cannot drive used and I get bored with cars rather quickly. Expensive habit.

Oh well, rant over. Everybody enjoy their Z4.

[bobbydog]

You can get a used m3 for 48k now and I paid 72k last year...that's around the same depreciation.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BMW-M3-2008-BMW-...item2304a11fbc

Put a JB3 and you'll get more power than you can handle!

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by bobbydog

You can get a used m3 for 48k now and I paid 72k last year...that's around the same depreciation.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BMW-M3-2008-BMW-...item2304a11fbc

Put a JB3 and you'll get more power than you can handle!

$24,000 in depreciation for a car that costs $72,000 a year ago is a little different than $23,000 on a $59,000 car that's 5 months old (33% compared to 39%), but I see your point. Car's depreciate, I understand that. I just never had one depreciate this bad in such a short period. I thought BMW was supposed to hold their value better than the average car, wrong again.

I already have a JB+ set at 100% (equivalent to JB3 on Map 3), didn't want to mess with the ECU wiring. What I really need is an exhaust system to make the car sound better. Eisenmann has a race version for $3,000, but it did not sound much different than factory system to me. I have never heard a good sounding N54 car, nothing like a high revving V8. The wife's ISF sounds very good for factory exhaust. That's why I need an M3 with Eisenmann Race or Meisterschaft GT2 exhaust.

[alan64]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

I have decided that I want an M3 and tried to trade my 2009 Z4 35i at 2 different dealers this weekend. I knew I was going to take a pretty big hit, boy was I in for a shock. My car stickered at $59,995, all options, 19" wheels, no Nav or premium sound. I was offered $36,000 at one dealer and $37,000 at the other. Both dealers told me the same story, 2010's are out and they have a $5,000 dealer incentive on them. One dealer showed me the wholesale invoice of a 2010 Z4 optioned exactly like my car, bottom line was $44,000. I thought at worst case my car would be worth $45K. They said why would I give you $44K for your car when I can order a new 2010 for the same price, hence the $37,000. I was also told that 85% of Z4's are leased, and BMW will not lease a car that has been titled limiting their customer base for the car. Needless to say I was pretty pissed off. $23,000 in depreciation in 5 months is ridiculous. I guess I purchased the wrong car at the wrong time.

you know what? I have been going through cars like crazy the last few years and this one I just plan to keep and hold on to. I think its a classic and I dont really care what is the latest greatest flavor. I remember when they came out with the z8 and I just loved the looks of that car. I thought they priced it way out of line at that time. I was thinking recently about looking into a used one when the new z4 came out. I fell it love with the looks of it and it was of course substantially less than the z8 was a number of years ago. Combined with the fact I bought mine in the early winter and they had received the 10's by then, I got what I thought was a fantastic buy on it. So to me, if I buy another car, it wont be because Im selling this one. To me its a totally impractical, two seat, makes no sense kind of car, that is one of the sweetest designs I have seen in awhile. Thats why its a keeper.

[Chuck76]

Originally Posted by alan64

you know what? I have been going through cars like crazy the last few years and this one I just plan to keep and hold on to. I think its a classic and I dont really care what is the latest greatest flavor. I remember when they came out with the z8 and I just loved the looks of that car. I thought they priced it way out of line at that time. I was thinking recently about looking into a used one when the new z4 came out. I fell it love with the looks of it and it was of course substantially less than the z8 was a number of years ago. Combined with the fact I bought mine in the early winter and they had received the 10's by then, I got what I thought was a fantastic buy on it. So to me, if I buy another car, it wont be because Im selling this one. To me its a totally impractical, two seat, makes no sense kind of car, that is one of the sweetest designs I have seen in awhile. Thats why its a keeper.

Not to mention that a lot of cars I see on the road are M3's. I asked several people what they thought between the z4 35i and the new M3's. Majority said that they would get the z4 because the M3 was played.

I'm not being biased as an owner of a z4 35i as my friend has a new M3 convertible hard top. The only down side I saw was that the interior was way to plain for me and he had it optioned out to the max. I say maybe the next revision of the M3 will be something fantastic.

As for the ISF, well it looks like a 250/350 to me. All in the same. My friend also picked up a new ISF in white. Looks nice, but I'd never own one of those. Only if they re-designed it I may be inspired a bit more.

As you owned a Shelby I own a Viper GTS. And though its enjoyable for its purpose, it not as livable as the z4.

[twin turbo]

Originally Posted by Chuck76

Not to mention that a lot of cars I see on the road are M3's. I asked several people what they thought between the z4 35i and the new M3's. Majority said that they would get the z4 because the M3 was played.

I'm not being biased as an owner of a z4 35i as my friend has a new M3 convertible hard top. The only down side I saw was that the interior was way to plain for me and he had it optioned out to the max. I say maybe the next revision of the M3 will be something fantastic.

As for the ISF, well it looks like a 250/350 to me. All in the same. My friend also picked up a new ISF in white. Looks nice, but I'd never own one of those. Only if they re-designed it I may be inspired a bit more.

As you owned a Shelby I own a Viper GTS. And though its enjoyable for its purpose, it not as livable as the z4.

I haven't seen or heard a new M3 in several months, but don't see many Z4's either. For me, a car has to exciting to drive, and this car has lost some of it's fun factor for me. Keep in mind I drive 100 miles on the interstate every day at 80+ mph, so putting the top down really isn't much fun. I love to drive the car around town especially with the top down. There is nothing wrong with the Z4, don't get me wrong. Just the V8 rumble and the intake sound in the ISF above 3600 rpms is just pure music to my ears, and the Z4 just doesn't make music. I have the exhaust flap disabled (golf tee mod) on my car too, so it's open all the time, which sounds better but still boring. I just need another V8 and the M3 should do the trick. Just have to wait for some finance incentives.

You are right, Shelby's and Vipers have their place, they don't make good daily drivers. My wife keeps telling me to buy a beater to drive back and forth to work, but that means 10 hours a week in a beater. Doesn't sound good to me. If I had the funds for a third car (and a third garage), that would be the best solution for me. I could drive the Shelby/Viper on the weekends but still have a nice car for the commute. Can't really swing three nice cars right now.