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      03-13-2013, 11:27 AM   #1
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Z4 observations

Good afternoon everyone. I am located in NYC and new to this forum. I owned a z4 Sdrive30i 2 years ago and now just got into an Sdrive35i. I would like to share some observations just in case anyone is interested in switching to a 35i from a 30i, or to a z4 in general. Just for reference, prior to the z4 i owned a 2900lb manual solstice GXP putting down around 320hp to the wheels (used it for autocross) and a g37 sedan which was driven by my girlfriend and I.

I was never in the market for a z4 but ended up getting an amazing lease deal on the sdrive30i. I liked the sdrive30i however it felt more of like a cruiser then a sports car. Great exhaust sound, very comfortable ride, not bad handling for a car that sat on 17 inch wheels and having the luxury of a hardtop that's controlled by buttons (big plus going from manual soft top). Drove the car for a year and got a little bored because of the power. Using my obd2 port bluetooth connector and the Torque app, i did several runs and was able to get average times of around 6.0-6.3s on 0-60 multiple 0-60 runs. Besides autocross, my daily commute is full of stop lights, i am not able to get my adrenaline rush from hitting apexs at optimal speeds, so acceleration has become very important variable in my car purchasing requirements. My Father ended up taking the sdrive30i off my hands because it perfectly filled his void for a second car and cost half the price of an sl550.

Considering my experience with the sdrive30i, i was definitely NOT in the market for ANY Z4s. Went to a dealership to look for an m3 and was convinced by the sales person to take a 35i with the 19inch wheels out for a spin.


POWER: HOLLLYYYYY CRAPPPPPPPPP. First, for anyone thinking that the difference in speed between the 30i and 35i is minimal or just a tad quicker , ITS NOT. The 35i is insanely quick. forget about magazine 0-60s. I got consistent 4.7-4.8 seconds average on 7 different runs(same location and same 50 degree temperature as i ran the sdrive30i on) before even installing the JB+ piggyback. But numbers definitively do not tell the whole story. Where i would have to rev the sdrive30i to 5k rpms to get it moving nicely, the 35i is pulling twice as hard at 2k rpms.

DCT: Being forced into an automatic car because your gf can not drive manual is horrible. For anyone in the position of having to have a car that shifts itself, look no further than this transmission. its obvious that this blows any automatic transmission out of the water but other automated manuals as well. When you are driving calm, the shifts are smoother then any luxury car i have driven (750i, s350 diesel, e classes, anything that comes to mind). When pushing the car hard, shifts are instantaneous, there is zero lag between pulling the shift lever towards you and having the car shift to the next gear. I have never been in a car where the car is already in the next gear before shift lever makes it back to its neutral position. Shift times are insanely quick and extremely firm, sort of akin to switching to a next gear and dumping the clutch really quickly.

Suspension: on comfort mode the car is really comfortable considering it rides a 30 profile tire but nothing special here. Sport definitely firms things up a bit. The handling on the car is great, however i definitely feel the run flats getting in the way a bit. The most interesting observation i was able to make was how this car is perceived by auto-journalist (English majors). a of of the reviews i read were how the car handles weirdly. This couldn't be further then the truth. Sitting on top of the rear wheels and behind rotation point gives you the feeling of the car responding slowly or turning slowly but its not, its like driving from the backseat of a car, the car will turn in the same but it will seem slower because you see more of the car instead of just a hood. I will save the results from the autocross events for a later post but the car killed some of its supposed competitors.

One of the biggest surprises was the exhaust. Much louder and more raw then the sdrive30i, huge difference. Because of the DCT retarding torque during shifts, the wide open throttle shifts produce exploding sounds which are just fantastic. Also when letting of the gas the car makes popping and roaring sounds like i have never heard, truly a pleasure to listen to.

For anyone that is on the fence whether to get this car or not, or to upgrade from a sdrive30i, do it in a heart beat. Its a blast to drive. Juicebox review comming next.
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      03-13-2013, 01:56 PM   #2
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On totally agree with your observations having moved from a 30i to a 35is. The Turbo does have a big effect. The 30i remains a very nice car though being not as sporty and more of a nice roadster to go around town which you can pound on for some fun.
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      03-13-2013, 02:39 PM   #3
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thanks for sharing. surprised you find the 35i quick coming from a 2900lb / 320whp car.
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      03-13-2013, 02:49 PM   #4
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      03-13-2013, 03:02 PM   #5
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I definitely did not expect it to be as fast as the tuned gxp but its also a mental thing. Although a turbo, it was a single turbo and the max torque was around 3-3200k rpm, the fact that this thing is putting down all of the torque at 1500+ is amazing. Also the gxp had an old 5 speed manual with really a really short 1st gear and a really tall 2nd, 3rd and 4th, so first gear would spin, hard to feel the power in1st and the other gears sapped some power because of the ratios. I just ran the numbers on the jb+ and its even more impressive.
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      03-13-2013, 03:36 PM   #6
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You''re preaching to the choir, fella.
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      03-13-2013, 04:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vbar View Post
Because of the DCT retarding torque during shifts, the wide open throttle shifts produce exploding sounds which are just fantastic. Also when letting of the gas the car makes popping and roaring sounds like i have never heard, truly a pleasure to listen to.
Love it too. I got mine about 2 weeks ago and I can't stop smiling when I'm driving it.
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      03-13-2013, 04:45 PM   #8
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Stop already. Can't wait for freakin' spring to finally come... Your posts aren't helping...
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      03-13-2013, 08:25 PM   #9
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Great post, thanks. I am in my second Z4, the first being a 2003 3.0, and now a 2009 3.0. Both are 6 speeds. Between these two Z's I owned a 2006 Corvette Convertible with 6 speed auto paddle shift.

The main reason for leaving the Vette behind was the slow and soft shifts. It was no better than my Subaru Outback CVT paddle shifter. Lots of power, but it is like grandma's auto. Slow and no crispness to the shifts.

I am very happy with the 3.0 and the 6 speed manual. As you said, grade B performance, sound and ride. Your review of the 3.5 with the DCT gives me something exciting to look forward to. Keep us updated on your experience.
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      03-13-2013, 08:40 PM   #10
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Wait till you get a new coilover and Tires (PSS Or equivalent)
I was smiling even more after those 2 items installed.

Make me miss my 35i now that's it's sold and the weather in mid 70s in sunny California
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      03-14-2013, 12:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vbar View Post
I definitely did not expect it to be as fast as the tuned gxp but its also a mental thing. Although a turbo, it was a single turbo and the max torque was around 3-3200k rpm, the fact that this thing is putting down all of the torque at 1500+ is amazing. Also the gxp had an old 5 speed manual with really a really short 1st gear and a really tall 2nd, 3rd and 4th, so first gear would spin, hard to feel the power in1st and the other gears sapped some power because of the ratios. I just ran the numbers on the jb+ and its even more impressive.
The only thing that keeps me from getting the 35iS model is that it does not seem to hold its shift close to redline and just upshifts for you, which is understandable for an auto, but if they market this paddle shifting to be useful for the track, i'm having second thoughts, and am certain to get the 35i instead.



Let us know if this review is similar to your autocross experience
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      03-14-2013, 06:28 AM   #12
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Coming from a M3E92 6MT I have similar findings during my test drives of a Z435is. The truth is that the NA engine needs revs which means during daily driving, to be fast, you need to rev it. On one hand this is fun, on the other hand, normal driving, without much noise and stress and still being fast, is not really possible with the M3.

Also DCT is really fun, I love the 6 MT in my M3, yes, but now I am over 40 and sometimes I just want to floor it and got away fast. In the M3, this project needs good preparation, in the 35is I floor it and that's it, I am away.

So I ordered a Z435is (Hyper orange, fully loaded), which will be delivered in July 2013 (BMW World).

I must say that I really liked your post, because I have a similar understanding of it.

Regarding the upshifts:
Is the behaviour of the gearbox really different in the 35i and in the 35is. Upshifts in the 35is and no upshifts in the 35i?!
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Last edited by itf joegun; 03-14-2013 at 06:49 AM..
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      03-14-2013, 08:18 AM   #13
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the single biggest favor you can do yourself is to throw away the run flats and put on a set of Michelin PSS - a topic that has been discussed often on this forum
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      03-14-2013, 08:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itf joegun View Post
Regarding the upshifts:
Is the behaviour of the gearbox really different in the 35i and in the 35is. Upshifts in the 35is and no upshifts in the 35i?!
No the DCT is the same in both models. Perhaps the other poster was referring to the manual box in the 35i vs the DCT in the 35is (DCT does not hold high revs for long before shifting up, for whatever reason). I too found it annoying at first. But to be fair, why would you want to keep revs at the top of the band without shifting?
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      03-14-2013, 09:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeggman View Post
Great post, thanks. I am in my second Z4, the first being a 2003 3.0, and now a 2009 3.0. Both are 6 speeds. Between these two Z's I owned a 2006 Corvette Convertible with 6 speed auto paddle shift.

The main reason for leaving the Vette behind was the slow and soft shifts. It was no better than my Subaru Outback CVT paddle shifter. Lots of power, but it is like grandma's auto. Slow and no crispness to the shifts.

I am very happy with the 3.0 and the 6 speed manual. As you said, grade B performance, sound and ride. Your review of the 3.5 with the DCT gives me something exciting to look forward to. Keep us updated on your experience.
You should be very happy with the 3.0 and its definitely not grade B compared to anything, im sorry if my post sounded so arrogant. Its all what you are looking for, i had a friend of mine ask me if my exhaust was "broken" because it sounded so loud, to him its noise, to me its music. Theres something for everyone.
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      03-14-2013, 09:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snk View Post
Wait till you get a new coilover and Tires (PSS Or equivalent)
I was smiling even more after those 2 items installed.

Make me miss my 35i now that's it's sold and the weather in mid 70s in sunny California
Will definitively be making the switch soon, thank you for the recommendations. Do the coil-overs play nice with the adjustable suspension? If you dont mind me asking what did you get after the 35i?

Last edited by Vbar; 03-14-2013 at 09:15 AM..
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      03-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeggman View Post
Great post, thanks. I am in my second Z4, the first being a 2003 3.0, and now a 2009 3.0. Both are 6 speeds. Between these two Z's I owned a 2006 Corvette Convertible with 6 speed auto paddle shift.

The main reason for leaving the Vette behind was the slow and soft shifts. It was no better than my Subaru Outback CVT paddle shifter. Lots of power, but it is like grandma's auto. Slow and no crispness to the shifts.

I am very happy with the 3.0 and the 6 speed manual. As you said, grade B performance, sound and ride. Your review of the 3.5 with the DCT gives me something exciting to look forward to. Keep us updated on your experience.
Very interesting that you mentioned the corvette. I was about to drive to Atlantic city to pick one up. They had or still have a national lease offer for 469 a month with 0 down and just taxes. It was sold 3 days before i was going to get it. I was kind of upset because the prospect of having an LS3 combined with 3300lbs sounds like entrance into hyperspace. I was still kind of upset that it didnt work out but now i think im over it. How do you find the handling compared to the vette, not grip but transitions and body motions?
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      03-14-2013, 09:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vbar
Will definitively be making the switch soon, thank you for the recommendations. Do the coil-overs play nice with the adjustable suspension? If you dont mind me asking what did you get after the 35i?
With the KW V3, the EDC will no longer be in use for suspension settings. It does give you an error message which can be coded or by passed with an EDC module. I'm ok with pressing "ok" each time the error message pops up at start.

As for the next car, going for an M3, should be arriving next weekend
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      03-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #19
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Some points related to the C&D review

1) My gas pedal does not have a kickdown switch, and mine has never kicked down in manual mode. Only in D and S modes. I wonder if this is a feature of later models or if its 35is / American-spec models only.

EDIT: I stand corrected. My car indeed has a switch and it is activated very close to the "floor" or the gas pedal. In D mode it will kickdown even if I don't hit this switch, so I always thought it was just the carpet or something playing with my pedal. Anyway, if I hit this kickdown switch mine also kicks down in manual mode. I happens in all modes (DSC=off, Sport+ and Normal/Comfort). But if I activate the kickdown-switch and keep my pedal pressed to the floor it seems I can still upshift at low rpms in manual mode.

2) Manual mode with sport+ and with DSC=off is not the same thing. Shifting speeds are slower with DSC=off and you don't get launch control either. On the plus side, with DSC=off you can start to go sideways!

3) The actual DCT hardware is exactly the same with the 1-seres, 3-seres, Z4 and M3. Only the M5 and M6 comes with upgraded hardware AFAIK. So any differences arise from differences in the software and electronics (M drive logic vs dynamic driving control). I never had problems upshifting or downshifting during side-loading, but if it can't, it is because the software is protecting the hardware better than the software in the other cars. Same goes for the availability of faster shifting modes and red-line head-banging

4) So yes it manually upshifts at red-line. And of course it cant downshift if such an event would cause the engine to over-rev. Again, these are safety features. And btw when trying to achieve better lap-times, why go beyond 6500rpm? I am not sure why they keep reving this car all the way to the red-line during this track-review. Anyway, it is a bigger problem that mine sometimes double-upshifts in D and S modes if excessive wheel-spin occurs (in sport+). I have asked ESS if they would be interested in developing a solution taking into account all of the above, but the market seems to be too small to justify the development costs. On the positive side our DCTs should last longer due to the added safety.

5) Even if C&D claims that the DCT in the Z4 is less sporty than that in the 335is, it was still quicker around their track...

6) It looks like they were tracking with DSC=off, so if that 35is had adaptive suspension, they were indeed tracking it using the softest damper settings. They would have no other choice with DSC=off. Also their car looks like it had 19" with RFTs (which offers less grip than 18" with RFTs).

The most track-ready Z4 you can get is the Euro-spec 35i (because it has uprated brakes), 6MT, M-sport non-adaptive suspension (for best behavior with DSC=off), upgraded inter-cooler (and perhaps a very light ECU tune to keep things cool) and sporty non-RFTs probably on light 17" wheels.

But I don't want a track-ready Z4...

Last edited by Asbjorn; 03-15-2013 at 02:15 AM..
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      03-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1robot View Post
The only thing that keeps me from getting the 35iS model is that it does not seem to hold its shift close to redline and just upshifts for you, which is understandable for an auto, but if they market this paddle shifting to be useful for the track, i'm having second thoughts, and am certain to get the 35i instead.



Let us know if this review is similar to your autocross experience


Do not quote me on this but i can not imagine that they would make the 35is shift automatically and not the 35i. Theres one thing i can not understand is why anyone would be shifting at redline on car with this kind of twinturbo setup. I did not dyno this car but using the torque app the acceleration change between 5k and 6.5 is non existent. With other turbo cars the concern would be that if you shift 1.5k earlier, the engine would drop to low into the rpm range to produce enough exhaust to power the turbo sufficiently but this thing puts down close to 300 lb feet of torque at around 1500rpm, so unless your shifting at 3k, you should be good. There is a large field by my area where people meet to run cars safely and i recently ran vs an automatic chevrolet camarao ss(L99 not ls3) The first run i was ahead by a car length at 60, when shifting my self and switching gear at exactly 5krpm, maybe even a few hundred less and i was ahead of him by the exact same distance as i was in the second run where it left it in automatic and sport+. I really do not think this should be a concern. One thing that does suck however is that there is no LSD for such a powerful car. I can always feel one wheel spinning.
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      03-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #21
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Personally, the moment I knew that there was a 35is next to the 35i, I just stopped looking for a 35i and got the 35is instead.

But even for the 35i I definitely recognize your experience. I came from an '06 3.0Si to my current sDrive35is. The 35is is way more sensational than a regular 3.0 and the twinturbo setup has lots of potential, so more power/torque is easy to obtain.
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      03-14-2013, 11:43 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itf joegun View Post
Coming from a M3E92 6MT I have similar findings during my test drives of a Z435is. The truth is that the NA engine needs revs which means during daily driving, to be fast, you need to rev it. On one hand this is fun, on the other hand, normal driving, without much noise and stress and still being fast, is not really possible with the M3.

Also DCT is really fun, I love the 6 MT in my M3, yes, but now I am over 40 and sometimes I just want to floor it and got away fast. In the M3, this project needs good preparation, in the 35is I floor it and that's it, I am away.

So I ordered a Z435is (Hyper orange, fully loaded), which will be delivered in July 2013 (BMW World).

I must say that I really liked your post, because I have a similar understanding of it.

Regarding the upshifts:
Is the behaviour of the gearbox really different in the 35i and in the 35is. Upshifts in the 35is and no upshifts in the 35i?!
Sorry for not clarifying, i meant the difference between shifting on a DCT 35is versus a manual gearbox of the 35i. And kudo's to your soon-to-be new Z4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiacGT View Post
No the DCT is the same in both models. Perhaps the other poster was referring to the manual box in the 35i vs the DCT in the 35is (DCT does not hold high revs for long before shifting up, for whatever reason). I too found it annoying at first. But to be fair, why would you want to keep revs at the top of the band without shifting?
This is what i meant to say, thanks. I track my current Z4 (5 MT) and go to some great farm roads in austin once a month, and must say its damn competent. During my years on the track on car or motorcycle, i often find myself entering corners very close to redline and when i exit the corners just to shave that extra second or so off this car's lap times.

I would just like to get the best out of every little thing a stock Z4 has to offer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
Some points related to the C&D review

1) My gas pedal does not have a kickdown switch, and mine has never kicked down in manual mode. Only in D and S modes. I wonder if this is a feature of later models or if its 35is / American-spec models only.

2) Manual mode with sport+ and with DSC=off is not the same thing. Shifting speeds are slower with DSC=off and you don't get launch control either. On the plus side, with DSC=off you can start to go sideways!

3) The actual DCT hardware is exactly the same with the 1-seres, 3-seres, Z4 and M3. Only the M5 and M6 comes with upgraded hardware AFAIK. So any differences arise from differences in the software and electronics (M drive logic vs dynamic driving control). I never had problems upshifting or downshifting during side-loading, but if it can't, it is because the software is protecting the hardware better than the software in the other cars. Same goes for the availability of faster shifting modes and red-line head-banging

4) So yes it manually upshifts at red-line. And of course it cant downshift if such an event would cause the engine to over-rev. Again, these are safety features. And btw when trying to achieve better lap-times, why go beyond 6500rpm? I am not sure why they keep reving this car all the way to the red-line during this track-review. Anyway, it is a bigger problem that mine sometimes double-upshifts in D and S modes if excessive wheel-spin occurs (in sport+). I have asked ESS if they would be interested in developing a solution taking into account all of the above, but the market seems to be too small to justify the development costs. On the positive side our DCTs should last longer due to the added safety.

5) Even if C&D claims that the DCT in the Z4 is less sporty than that in the 335is, it was still quicker around their track...

6) It looks like they were tracking with DSC=off, so if that 35is had adaptive suspension, they were indeed tracking it using the softest damper settings. They would have no other choice with DSC=off. Also their car looks like it had 19" with RFTs (which offers less grip than 18" with RFTs).

The most track-ready Z4 you can get is the Euro-spec 35i (because it has uprated brakes), 6MT, M-sport non-adaptive suspension (for best behavior with DSC=off), upgraded inter-cooler (and perhaps a very light ECU tune to keep things cool) and sporty non-RFTs probably on light 17" wheels.

But I don't want a track-ready Z4...
Excellent info, this is what i was looking for. I was just wondering if what the host of C&D was true or not despite them not knowing the car enough to make a better lap time. And of course, Euro-spec this euro-spec that....sigh. I suppose the demand for a similar spec in the US just is not in demand since everyone and their grandmother drives an SUV.

As for redlining the Z4 in C&D's review, i assume its just to make the fastest track laptime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vbar View Post
Do not quote me on this but i can not imagine that they would make the 35is shift automatically and not the 35i. Theres one thing i can not understand is why anyone would be shifting at redline on car with this kind of twinturbo setup. I did not dyno this car but using the torque app the acceleration change between 5k and 6.5 is non existent. With other turbo cars the concern would be that if you shift 1.5k earlier, the engine would drop to low into the rpm range to produce enough exhaust to power the turbo sufficiently but this thing puts down close to 300 lb feet of torque at around 1500rpm, so unless your shifting at 3k, you should be good. There is a large field by my area where people meet to run cars safely and i recently ran vs an automatic chevrolet camarao ss(L99 not ls3) The first run i was ahead by a car length at 60, when shifting my self and switching gear at exactly 5krpm, maybe even a few hundred less and i was ahead of him by the exact same distance as i was in the second run where it left it in automatic and sport+. I really do not think this should be a concern. One thing that does suck however is that there is no LSD for such a powerful car. I can always feel one wheel spinning.
If the torque band really starts that low, thats impressive. And you see, i don't know anything about how cars behave under high or low loads with turbo setups, so i have alot to learn...as always lol. Thanks for the heads up.
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