adaptive M chassis with regular shocks

[VinceCaruso]

my 2011 Z4 30i has an adaptive M chassis with adaptive shocks front and back, but the fronts need to be replaced.

Can I use regular (non adaptive) and if so what is the trade off?

[Marcoose]

Vince, speaking from the experience with my car only, a 35is with AS. I've replaced the stock AS with KWV3 with the delete dummy. All around, naturally. It's tits! Far better than stock. So, yes.

[VinceCaruso]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Vince, speaking from the experience with my car only, a 35is with AS. I've replaced the stock AS with KWV3 with the delete dummy. All around, naturally. It's tits! Far better than stock. So, yes.

Sorry, I should have specified I am trying to cut the cost DOWN at the regular shocks are less than half the cost of the adaptive ($298 vs $677 each).

[Marcoose]

Yes, I kind of figured so. My experience says ‘a’ non-AS suspension works great with AS car. I don’t if ‘any’ non-AS suspension will do the trick. I wish I could’ve been more helpful.

[VinceCaruso]

Thanks just the same

[KennyP]

Maybe consider cheaper coilover kits. KW v1 or maybe ST suspension that is made by KW that has ride height adjustment. Dont go with cheap ebay kits...
Stock non adaptive suspension ride height is 10mm higher i think and that does not look good in my opinion with its wheel gap. This means it probably used different springs too. So to completely convert to stock suspension you would probably have to change springs aswell. You could use adaptive suspension springs and stock shocks but they arent designed to work together and i dont know how it would affect the ride and handling. Probably not make it better. Stiffer spring with a soft shock to dampen it.

Also if you just replace adaptive shocks on one axle you dont have to mess with the other axle. When you delete adaptive suspension you have to change all 4 shocks.

You dont need EDC delete modules that fool the computer into thinking that adaptive shocks are still there. You can just code adaptive suspension option to off in few modules and unplug a harness plug in the ecu box and its done.
Saves you 300+ dollars. I did it with a OBD to usb cable i got from ebay and used INPA and EDIABAS software that you can just download online,

I went with KW V3 when my front struts started leaking and decided that this is the point where i have an opportunity to upgrade my suspension.
I paid for KW V3 1800eur that was basically the same as two new oem adaptive struts cost. So my idea was im getting all 4 corners replaced+new springs and a considerable upgrade on top for the same price two replacement shocks cost... Now i got the cheaper kit that was without EDC delete modules and I happened to stumble on a spring sale where KW suspension kits were discounted. I think full price with edc delete was 2300 eur back then. This was years ago. Now of course V3 kits price has risen considerably due to recent inflation surge. Its now eyewatering 3400 dollars to buy new. Which is actually almost double the price i got mine for.

And lastly dont downgrade the suspension. Stock non adaptive i alot softer and comfort oriented than M adaptive suspension. You will probably not like it if you already got used to M adaptive.. its softer than the comfort mode on adaptive suspension. Look around on the aftermarket maybe youll find something for 1200 dollars or something like that. You dont have to get the absolute maxed out highest kit available. Find something in the medium price range. Its probably still an upgrade from adaptive.

[KennyP]

[KennyP]

Have to correct myself: stock is a bit stiffer than comfort on adaptive.

[B21]

Bilstein B8s are a cost effective shock that works well on E89s...slighly firmer than the comfort settingbut IMHO much better control and ride overall|!

[VinceCaruso]

thanks to all... went with bilstein and left it as adaptive.

[Laurae]

Originally Posted by VinceCaruso

thanks to all... went with bilstein and left it as adaptive.

Good day VinceCaruso,
I am considering going the same route by fitting both front shocks with Bilstein B8s on the adaptive suspension. Did it work well for you? What did you do with the coding or error messages? Should I rather replace all 4 shocks or can I leave the rear ones? Will it not mess up the adaptive system if I leave the rear shocks?

[KennyP]

I've decided to just live with the shock light coming on for 30 secs on start up. I know what it is, so I''ll learn to ignore it.

this is what Vince posted on some other thread...

if you want to go with bilstein then you should do it correctly... replace all 4 corners and get rid of adaptive suspension...

or buy oem replacement shocks...

Please dont try to mix and match different shocks...

There arent really any shortcuts or cheap fixes...
you either get a full coilover suspension kit and code adaptive option out...
or you fix you adaptive suspension with original parts...

Vince tried to fix it cheaply and ended up living with suspension errors...
Spitfun installed ebay shocks and ended up getting rid of the car short time later...

dont make same mistakes..
at least this is my opinion.. take it however you want...

[javis20]

You can gat all 4 here... https://www.ebay.com/itm/385054638671?f
or just do the fronts... https://www.ebay.com/itm/13499190885...XFZ8ND67NJXAFN

[KennyP]

do you guys really trust these to last 10 years or 60k miles on your car? Like the original shocks did in most cases?

I mean its something made in china by a company named Qingdao Manwo Vibration Technology Co., Ltd.

https://www.made-in-china.com/produc...g_from=4#word#

if you buy them in bulk price gets down to atmost 130usd.. with negotiations most probably even lower... So in the end these chinese shocks are manufactured to a cost of maybe 60-70 usd per shock... maybe even less... 50 usd...
There has to be some shortcuts taken to be able to make them for almost nothing...

Also what i noticed... this chinese company makes front shocks only for 28i 30i models. They list only the partnumber that fits these model.

They dont mention 35i partnumbers anywhere...

35i/is is a heavier car. Most of the extra weight is on the front axle of the car...
N54 engine is like 60kg heavier than n20 engine... the exhaust system is heavier... even DCT gearbox is alot heavier than manual and bit heavier than conventional automatic.... brakes are bigger and heavier... and so on...

You wouldnt want to put 28i shocks on a 35i car...

What i suspect is that chinese manufacturer does list the product "probably" correctly as for 28i etc.... but then those ebay scam sellers buy them in bulk and list them as for both models...

Also one thing that tells me that a car part is quality is if its qualified to be put on a car in Germany... in essence it would need German TÜV certification...

I doubt you can install those shocks in Germany and not fail TÜV inspection...

For example KW does have this TÜV cert.. So do Wagner intercoolers...
Even if car inspections aint so strict in your country, its still good to know that the product you are using has passed all the testing for German TÜV...

Heres another question... why can you only buy them on ebay, aliexpress... if its so great product... why arent large online partsstores like FCPEuro or AUTODOC listing them for sale as spare parts?? Its again... subpar quality, no certifications and so on...

And finally... the more you put chinese parts on your german bmw the more chinese it becomes...

[javis20]

Having worked for a multi national company, I can tell you many of the parts on your BMW are made in China. And China is notorious for overrunning production to sell under their own name. If the US or German company doesn't own the plant, the Chinese sub contractors will just remove the VW, BMW or any other marking and continue to run parts. So if Bosch, for instance, sub contracts coil packs to a China plant, they will use that equipment and supplies to make their own.

My best guess is these are coming from the same factory that makes the OEM BMW shocks. Just think about it.. The cost to tool up to manufacture these low demand parts just doesn't make sense unless you are already making these shocks on BMW paid for tooling.

Btw, I plan on going this route later this summer. I previously spoke to someone who installed these more than a year ago and had no complaints.

[KennyP]

if what you say is true... and this is overflow from the same factory where original shocks get made...

Then this factory should produce 2 different parts... one part for the 28i and second one for the 35i/35is...
And then there should be overflow of both of these parts... and then both of them would end up on ebay aswell as separate products...

But in this case they clearly are not... And this is my biggest problem with these..

Yes a lot of stuff gets produced in china, but with a brand name also comes quality control...
those overflow shocks could also be the ones that got rejected by the quality control and deemed defective... and then they get smuggled out the back door and sold on ebay....

Also tooling can wear out over time... so at some point it needs to be refurbished... maybe its the leftover old tooling that got smuggled out, fixed up and is now used to make these ebay shocks... who knows really...

If it was some cosmetic part then i wouldnt care so much...
but we are dealing with the cars suspension here... it affects car handling, behaviour... its like you are trying to save money on your own safety...

Its like putting the cheapest chinese tires on your sportscar.
I recently read how a bunch of chinese tire models got banned in Finland...
and if you drive on them in Finland you will actually get fined by the police.

but hey... you do you...

[KennyP]

even polish shock refurbishing service costs twice as much as these chinese shocks...

328 eur to refurbish a single front shock.

And if you dont send your old shocks in for exchange and just want to buy one... then its 200 eur extra... 528 eur...

link:
https://nagengast.pl/en/produkt/bmw-...c-front-right/

and then you are hoping to get oem quality for 168 eur per shock from ebay?

If i were you and i really didnt want to spend more than that... then i would buy regular shocks and get rid of adaptive option...

Bilstein B6 that was recommended by B12 somewhere here before... good quality product... 192 eur per front shock... 158 eur per rear... 700 eur for a full set. Prices taken from Autodoc.


i dont know... old saying... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is....

[KennyP]

one more thing...
If you get disturbed by a 1000-2000 eur repair cost and and cant afford or refuse to do it correctly... then you are going to have a bad time.

BMW-s are not cheap cars to run.. you have to expect repair costs over 1000 eur now and then. If this is too much for you... tbh choose some other car...

For example i have had my z4 for 8 years now... and i have spent about over 10k eur on upkeep, maintenance and repairs during that time...
and this is with quite a cheap workhour rate... though that has come up considerably over the years...
what is average labour hour rate in USA? 130 usd or thereabout? its like 40-45 eur here at the moment.. used to be 30 eur years ago...

what happens if your waterpump fails, engine needs new valve cover, or say your doorhandle comfort access fails... these are all over 500 eur costing repairs each...
Or what if you have to drop the subframe to replace your leaking oilpan gasket? or you have to service you DCT? again can expect 500+ eur repair bill for each of these...
what if you have to drop the gearbox to replace the rear main crankshaft seal?
i can go on and on...

[Drummer$Dude]

Originally Posted by KennyP

one more thing...
If you get disturbed by a 1000-2000 eur repair cost and and cant afford or refuse to do it correctly... then you are going to have a bad time.

BMW-s are not cheap cars to run.. you have to expect repair costs over 1000 eur now and then. If this is too much for you... tbh choose some other car...

For example i have had my z4 for 8 years now... and i have spent about over 10k eur on upkeep, maintenance and repairs during that time...
and this is with quite a cheap workhour rate... though that has come up considerably over the years...
what is average labor hour rate in USA? 130 usd or thereabout? its like 40-45 eur here at the moment.. used to be 30 eur years ago...

what happens if your waterpump fails, engine needs new valve cover, or say your doorhandle comfort access fails... these are all over 500 eur costing repairs each...
Or what if you have to drop the subframe to replace your leaking oilpan gasket? or you have to service you DCT? again can expect 500+ eur repair bill for each of these...
what if you have to drop the gearbox to replace the rear main crankshaft seal?
i can go on and on...

All well said Kenny P. With our beloved Z4's it's best to not go the cheap route. It definitely pays to do as much maintenance/repairs ourselves and buy quality parts.

[KennyP]

Yep... the guy who manages the repair shop i use told me aswell that these cars are for DIY enhusiasts who have a garage, a lift etc.

Proper repairs and maintenance ensures cars longevity... For some these cars may be their forever cars...

In my case... in my country we did not have a proper car tax before... Cars were taxed through the taxes on fuel and that way taxation was based on fuel consumption...
Now our goverment is implementing a separate car tax... Country needs more money in its budget... As Russia is our neighbour we need to up the defence spending and our country also supports Ukraine alot... So these are probably main reasons for it.

This car taxation starts next year... 01.01.2025...
it has 2 components... yearly tax and registration tax...

First is yearly tax that is calculated on cars pollution stats and its weight. heavier and more polluting cars pay more. Weight isnt just the weight of the car but its full weight with its maximum carrying capacity....

For civilian cars age gets taken to account aswell... basically when car is new your tax gets multiplied by age factor of 1 which means it essentially stays the same... as car gets older this age factor starts dropping towards 0...
when car is 20 years old it reaches 0 and you only have to pay the minimum base tax...
So for example 5 year old cars tax gets multiplied by 0.8 and tax is reduced that way...

Now this yearly tax isnt that bad....

What is bad is car registration tax... so every time you import a car or buy a new car... on first registration in the country you have to pay this tax...
This is also based on weight, pollution and age of the car....

This is going to make importing a car from Germany way more expensive... and in a tiny country that has only 1.3million people you basically have to if you want to get anything thats close to what you wish for... local market is very limited.. i havent seen any n54 z4-s for sale within the country for years for example... you have to look abroad..
for example..
my current 2009 z4 35i ...
next year someone wishes to import one similar in: 2147 eur registration tax on that...on a 15 year old car...
say i want to lease a 2020 3l Toyota Supra and bring one in from Europe...
6000 eur registration tax to do that... yearly tax 444 eur...
And these are small light cars... as tax is also based on the weight of the car... heavy SUV-s, large luxury cars get hit hard with this tax...
2022 bmw x5 30d : to register 7500 eur and yearly tax 665
audi Q7 was like 10k eur to register... Cayenne was highest i think... about 15k eur to register...

While my 2009 z4 35i yearly tax is going to be only 99 eur... as its so old and doesnt weigh much either...

So this incentivizes me to keep my old z4 in top shape and just keep driving it on... Its basically free motoring compared to newer options...

Basically if you want to import something to Estonia.. this year is really the year to do it and get one in before the taxation hits...

Also it was popular to buy a car to a company name here. This cartax is even worse to company cars... essentialy for company cars tax doesnt take age into account.. so it doesnt matter how old the car is company gets taxed as if its a brand new car...
So if i registered my current Z4 to a company name my yearly tax would be 540 eur instead of 99 eur as a civilian...

I have myself thought of getting something to replace the Z but i really dont like most of the newer cars at all... or they are so freaking expensive and out of my budget... with way higher upkeep costs...
And then i think that i dont have to pay like 500 eur every year to drive my current car... and i truly still enjoy it. So the result of it all is that probably my Z4 is going to be with me for a very long time... ill just keep it well maintained and fix everything on it... and keep enjoying it...

It will probably even stay rare. Noone will import any more of them to the country when tax is over 2000 for a 15 year old car to do so... and to import a newer 2015 z4 35i its over 5100 eur of tax to do so...

[Drummer$Dude]

Kenny P, that's a lot to digest! Here in Michigan, USA our yearly car registration/license plate fees are based on what the car retailed for when new.

It used to be that as the car depreciated the registration fee would go down each year, but the state changed that so now registrations cost the same as it did in 2009 when my Z4 was new.

Michigan doesn't have vehicle inspections though so catless downpipes and such are not an issue. Not having vehicle inspections opens another can of worms though as I'm sure there are plenty of cars on the road that should be in the junk yard.

Here in the U.S. it's not an issue buying/selling vehicles across state lines so I can appreciate that versus the mess you have to deal with.

http://www.youtube.com/@JustRolledIn

[tIndy]

So what are the options for a Z4 with AS? OEM only?