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      11-20-2009, 04:20 AM   #23
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the look of the new z4 is fantastic! can't wait for the M packet being released!
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      11-21-2009, 01:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
Thanks, I needed a good chuckle today. ....Lexus SC430 comparable to the new Z4? Reeeeally? LOL The SC430?? - The 10 year old, ancient technology, stodgy, truck like transmission, bloated excuse for a sports car, designed for blue hairs bath tub that my grandmother would look good in, car???? That SC430??? Surely, you jest.

Everyone seems to be comparing the new Z4 with the Boxster S, so this should really come as no surprise or amazement to anyone at this point. As for the Boxster (non S) there is always the Miata to compare IT to.
Compare the 2.9l Boxster to an MX-5? Yeah right... The 2.9 has equal power to the 3.0si E89(which it is supposed to compete with) and the "S" has more power than 3.5i(especially considering the big weight difference). The article is SPOT ON about handling. I had a 986 Boxster 2.7. It was simply the most easy car to drive fast I have ever been in. The comments about behavior over less than perfect roads is exactly how I describe the difference between the Z4M and Boxster. While Z4 handles well, it is much more work(just as Hammond said on Top Gear). The P-car is just tuned in so well from the factory it makes anyone look great. If you hit broken pavement in the Bimmer, hold on! The P-car doesn't really care what the road looks like. I certainly feel the direction of the Z4 has moved away from the pure sports car feel of the Boxster(and Z4M). The E89 Z4 is more like the SLK350 now IMO.
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      11-21-2009, 04:43 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by chickdr View Post
Compare the 2.9l Boxster to an MX-5? Yeah right... The 2.9 has equal power to the 3.0si E89(which it is supposed to compete with) and the "S" has more power than 3.5i(especially considering the big weight difference). The article is SPOT ON about handling. I had a 986 Boxster 2.7. It was simply the most easy car to drive fast I have ever been in. The comments about behavior over less than perfect roads is exactly how I describe the difference between the Z4M and Boxster. While Z4 handles well, it is much more work(just as Hammond said on Top Gear). The P-car is just tuned in so well from the factory it makes anyone look great. If you hit broken pavement in the Bimmer, hold on! The P-car doesn't really care what the road looks like. I certainly feel the direction of the Z4 has moved away from the pure sports car feel of the Boxster(and Z4M). The E89 Z4 is more like the SLK350 now IMO.
LOL. I figured that comparison to the Miata would get under someone's skin.

Since we are all sharing opinions....I'll share mine, which many have already agree with, and many Porsche folks will have a hard time accepting>>>>>.The Boxster has a tired 12 year old body style and a plain jane interior as it's 2 glaring negatives. Thus, the new Z4 is the better overall package, when considering all aspects of a vehicle.

I've never seen a guy driving an SLK350. If you can name one guy that owns an SLK 350, then we can maybe start discussing it in the same sentence as the new Z4. Until then it will remain the "chick mobile" it was designed to be by the Mercedes marketing people.
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      11-21-2009, 05:21 PM   #26
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If you need to time trial around a track then definitely buy the Porsche.

If you don't, the Z4 is better in every other way including looks.


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      11-21-2009, 05:35 PM   #27
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I agree with BlueZ4AZ. Porsche really needs to update its dull, dated design. Even the 911 looks uninspiring, dare I say boring. If they looked better interior and exterior wise I would have purchased one as a natural progression from my Lotus for a good mix of track/street/longer distance.

For now the Z4 remains king in my book.

PS: I will just add that if I spent the difference in price between a Z4 35i and a mildly optioned Boxster S on mods for the Z4 I will have a quicker car than the Porsche. Mods: suspension, tires and tune. Maybe sneak in a new set of anchors too!
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      11-21-2009, 10:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
LOL. I figured that comparison to the Miata would get under someone's skin.

Since we are all sharing opinions....I'll share mine, which many have already agree with, and many Porsche folks will have a hard time accepting>>>>>.The Boxster has a tired 12 year old body style and a plain jane interior as it's 2 glaring negatives. Thus, the new Z4 is the better overall package, when considering all aspects of a vehicle.

I've never seen a guy driving an SLK350. If you can name one guy that owns an SLK 350, then we can maybe start discussing it in the same sentence as the new Z4. Until then it will remain the "chick mobile" it was designed to be by the Mercedes marketing people.
Funny, I see guys driving SLK's all the time...

I have to disagree about the Boxster's design as the way I see it, Porsche has always done evolutionary changes starting with the 911. It retained the same basic shape all the way through the 993. Most P-car fans think the 993 was the last "real Porsche"(even though the 996 and 997 are obviously in the same line). The Boxster is a classic IMO as well. The shape is instantly identifiable as a Porsche. I personally love it and the changes for 2010 just make it even better. The interior is very usable and comfortable as well(and its very classically German too). BMW, on the other hand, couldn't be more different with the Z3, E85 Z4 and E89 Z4's designs. It is like the Japanese do nowadays with practically no evolution at all. I think they are trying to make a classic shape that is loved(as the E85 Z4 certainly was not).

I don't see how you can possibly call the E89 Z4 a "better" overall vehicle. In what way? The P-car handles better, is faster, has better brakes, has much more usable trunk space, etc, etc. You think because the E89 "looks" better(which is very subjective anyway) this makes it a better overall package?

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Obviously, since you drive an E89 you are going to defend it. While I drive an E85, I understand the Boxster S is a superior vehicle. I was just not willing to spend the extra $$$ needed to get one vs the Z4M I ended up with, and my biggest gripe about P-cars is the nickel and diming to get decent options. BMW is much better in this regard(and more Japanese-like).

I had the same discussions on the S2000 boards when the Boxster vs S2000 discussion arose. The S2000 is a 35K car and it just can't compete with the Boxster on many levels(even though the S2K is a great car in its own right - I had one for 3 yrs before getting the Z4M.)
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      11-22-2009, 08:07 AM   #29
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I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. After all, this is a Z4 board.

The Z4 has a better ride, much nicer interior, more features and conveniences, more cargo space (10.6 vs 5.3+4.6), the folding hard top, and more.
Yes the Z4 has less space top down, but I'd rather have the usable large trunk top up than 2 small compartments.

BTW, my Z4 is loaded. I just configured a Boxter S with the same options (at least what I could match up). It cost $87,900, nearly $20,000 more than my Z4!!!!

In short, the Boxter may be the better track car (which I may do twice a year), but the Z4 is the better car for the other 360 days of the year.
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      11-22-2009, 09:32 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. After all, this is a Z4 board.

The Z4 has a better ride, much nicer interior, more features and conveniences, more cargo space (10.6 vs 5.3+4.6), the folding hard top, and more.
Yes the Z4 has less space top down, but I'd rather have the usable large trunk top up than 2 small compartments.

BTW, my Z4 is loaded. I just configured a Boxter S with the same options (at least what I could match up). It cost $87,900, nearly $20,000 more than my Z4!!!!

In short, the Boxster may be the better track car (which I may do twice a year), but the Z4 is the better car for the other 360 days of the year.
Of course I expect E89 owners to hold fast on their purchase decisions(especially on a BMW board ) but the luggage space comparo really cracks me up. The Boxster always has the same amount of storage(and both areas are very usable) top up, or down. The E89 has severe restrictions unless you are prepared to lose its top down ability. A "better ride" is also debatable as the Boxster maintains a supple ride while still having track ready ability. I think they have by far the best trade off in ride vs handling capability. As for the interior, I don't want a "luxurious" interior in a true sports car. The Boxster has all those options available if desired(leather covered anything..., BT, Bose, etc), but can be had with just the basics too.
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      11-22-2009, 09:43 AM   #31
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WTF is it with these long ass threads? bottom line every forum you go to will defend its own. hence the reason for the purchase... duh!!! what sense would it make if we all drove black ford model T's???
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      11-22-2009, 10:19 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by chickdr View Post
Funny, I see guys driving SLK's all the time...

I have to disagree about the Boxster's design as the way I see it, Porsche has always done evolutionary changes starting with the 911. It retained the same basic shape all the way through the 993. Most P-car fans think the 993 was the last "real Porsche"(even though the 996 and 997 are obviously in the same line). The Boxster is a classic IMO as well. The shape is instantly identifiable as a Porsche. I personally love it and the changes for 2010 just make it even better. The interior is very usable and comfortable as well(and its very classically German too). BMW, on the other hand, couldn't be more different with the Z3, E85 Z4 and E89 Z4's designs. It is like the Japanese do nowadays with practically no evolution at all. I think they are trying to make a classic shape that is loved(as the E85 Z4 certainly was not).

I don't see how you can possibly call the E89 Z4 a "better" overall vehicle. In what way? The P-car handles better, is faster, has better brakes, has much more usable trunk space, etc, etc. You think because the E89 "looks" better(which is very subjective anyway) this makes it a better overall package?

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Obviously, since you drive an E89 you are going to defend it. While I drive an E85, I understand the Boxster S is a superior vehicle. I was just not willing to spend the extra $$$ needed to get one vs the Z4M I ended up with, and my biggest gripe about P-cars is the nickel and diming to get decent options. BMW is much better in this regard(and more Japanese-like).

I had the same discussions on the S2000 boards when the Boxster vs S2000 discussion arose. The S2000 is a 35K car and it just can't compete with the Boxster on many levels(even though the S2K is a great car in its own right - I had one for 3 yrs before getting the Z4M.)
I strenuously either disagree with or disbelieve most everything you just said.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 11-22-2009 at 03:47 PM..
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      11-22-2009, 04:10 PM   #33
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Of course I expect E89 owners to hold fast on their purchase decisions(especially on a BMW board ) but the luggage space comparo really cracks me up. The Boxster always has the same amount of storage(and both areas are very usable) top up, or down. The E89 has severe restrictions unless you are prepared to lose its top down ability. A "better ride" is also debatable as the Boxster maintains a supple ride while still having track ready ability. I think they have by far the best trade off in ride vs handling capability. As for the interior, I don't want a "luxurious" interior in a true sports car. The Boxster has all those options available if desired(leather covered anything..., BT, Bose, etc), but can be had with just the basics too.
I find it interesting that every once in a while I run across a person that thinks just because he/she is able to think cognitively, they must form opinion, and those opinions are naturally correct because they have the ability to form an opinion, because. . . it goes on and on. . . otherwise known as circular reasoning.

This results from their inability to understand alternative viewpoints, or more to the point, they cannot understand that equally intelligent people, given similar values, inputs, etc., can arrive at equally valid but different conclusions. Other people readily grasp this concept and live with it because they know that human knowledge and individual understanding is limited (i.e., not universal) and there are often perfectly valid but different ways to solve the same problem. People that use circular reasoning are limited because they can’t escape their own patterns of circular reasoning and self justified belief their intellect is superior, because. . . (see paragraph, above).

All of that is to say this: You need to come to grip with the idea it’s perfectly Ok for two different people to completely disagree about the same thing that is subjective, and both be 100 percent correct in accordance with their own subjective experiences, knowledge, values, etc. So if someone says “I think a Porsche 911 interior is superior to a Z4” or vice versa “I think a Z4 interior is superior to a Porsche 911” they may both be 100 percent correct.

It’s disingenuous of you to backhandedly insult our intelligence by saying, “Of course I expect E89 owners to hold fast on their purchase decisions(especially on a BMW board ).” That comment precludes the possibility that a person of equal or greater intelligence than yourself may have looked at both cars, and based on their well reasoned evaluation arrived at a different but equally valid conclusion than you. What you have is typically called a superior attitude, which FYI, doesn’t indicate a superior intellect. Frankly it’s insulting, boring and tiresome.

IMO you’re upset with yourself because for whatever reason don‘t own a Porsche and you’re taunting e89 owners because they’re happy with their choice. You need to grow up and quit making other people’s lives miserable.

Last edited by teagueAMX; 11-22-2009 at 05:52 PM..
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      11-22-2009, 07:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
I find it interesting that every once in a while I run across a person that thinks just because he/she is able to think cognitively, they must form opinion, and those opinions are naturally correct because they have the ability to form an opinion, because. . . it goes on and on. . . otherwise known as circular reasoning.

This results from their inability to understand alternative viewpoints, or more to the point, they cannot understand that equally intelligent people, given similar values, inputs, etc., can arrive at equally valid but different conclusions. Other people readily grasp this concept and live with it because they know that human knowledge and individual understanding is limited (i.e., not universal) and there are often perfectly valid but different ways to solve the same problem. People that use circular reasoning are limited because they can’t escape their own patterns of circular reasoning and self justified belief their intellect is superior, because. . . (see paragraph, above).

All of that is to say this: You need to come to grip with the idea it’s perfectly Ok for two different people to completely disagree about the same thing that is subjective, and both be 100 percent correct in accordance with their own subjective experiences, knowledge, values, etc. So if someone says “I think a Porsche 911 interior is superior to a Z4” or vice versa “I think a Z4 interior is superior to a Porsche 911” they may both be 100 percent correct.

It’s disingenuous of you to backhandedly insult our intelligence by saying, “Of course I expect E89 owners to hold fast on their purchase decisions(especially on a BMW board ).” That comment precludes the possibility that a person of equal or greater intelligence than yourself may have looked at both cars, and based on their well reasoned evaluation arrived at a different but equally valid conclusion than you. What you have is typically called a superior attitude, which FYI, doesn’t indicate a superior intellect. Frankly it’s insulting, boring and tiresome.

IMO you’re upset with yourself because for whatever reason don‘t own a Porsche and you’re taunting e89 owners because they’re happy with their choice. You need to grow up and quit making other people’s lives miserable.
I am upset because I don't have a Porsche? Thanks Dr. Freud...

I could have bought one if I wanted to, but as I said did not see the extra value for ME at the time I got the Z4M. Don't get me wrong, the Z4 is a great car and I plan to keep it a long time. I just don't spend time trying to convince myself it is equal to/superior to the Boxster. Obviously everyone buys whatever car they decide at the time based on numerous factors. With me, I went from a Boxster to an S2000 as the lease rates were phenomonal in 2006. I went with a used Z4M as the price : performance was unmatched in comparison to my other choices.
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      11-22-2009, 08:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
I find it interesting that every once in a while I run across a person that thinks just because he/she is able to think cognitively, they must form opinion, and those opinions are naturally correct because they have the ability to form an opinion, because. . . it goes on and on. . . otherwise known as circular reasoning.

This results from their inability to understand alternative viewpoints, or more to the point, they cannot understand that equally intelligent people, given similar values, inputs, etc., can arrive at equally valid but different conclusions. Other people readily grasp this concept and live with it because they know that human knowledge and individual understanding is limited (i.e., not universal) and there are often perfectly valid but different ways to solve the same problem. People that use circular reasoning are limited because they can’t escape their own patterns of circular reasoning and self justified belief their intellect is superior, because. . . (see paragraph, above).

All of that is to say this: You need to come to grip with the idea it’s perfectly Ok for two different people to completely disagree about the same thing that is subjective, and both be 100 percent correct in accordance with their own subjective experiences, knowledge, values, etc. So if someone says “I think a Porsche 911 interior is superior to a Z4” or vice versa “I think a Z4 interior is superior to a Porsche 911” they may both be 100 percent correct.

It’s disingenuous of you to backhandedly insult our intelligence by saying, “Of course I expect E89 owners to hold fast on their purchase decisions(especially on a BMW board ).” That comment precludes the possibility that a person of equal or greater intelligence than yourself may have looked at both cars, and based on their well reasoned evaluation arrived at a different but equally valid conclusion than you. What you have is typically called a superior attitude, which FYI, doesn’t indicate a superior intellect. Frankly it’s insulting, boring and tiresome.

IMO you’re upset with yourself because for whatever reason don‘t own a Porsche and you’re taunting e89 owners because they’re happy with their choice. You need to grow up and quit making other people’s lives miserable.
Well put.
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      11-22-2009, 09:46 PM   #36
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I am upset because I don't have a Porsche? Thanks Dr. Freud...

I could have bought one if I wanted to, but as I said did not see the extra value for ME at the time I got the Z4M. Don't get me wrong, the Z4 is a great car and I plan to keep it a long time. I just don't spend time trying to convince myself it is equal to/superior to the Boxster. Obviously everyone buys whatever car they decide at the time based on numerous factors. With me, I went from a Boxster to an S2000 as the lease rates were phenomonal in 2006. I went with a used Z4M as the price : performance was unmatched in comparison to my other choices.
Understood.

Live long and prosper (I got a good dose of Star Trek this weekend).
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      11-30-2009, 10:39 PM   #37
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Understood.

Live long and prosper (I got a good dose of Star Trek this weekend).
There is something we agree on, Star Trek that is...

My wife writes a ST blog on Roddenberry.com
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      11-30-2009, 11:17 PM   #38
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Leading up to my decision to get an E89 it struck me that the car against which it was compared most often in the press (both on-line and in print) was the Porsche Boxster. The majority of these comparisons find that the Porsche has the edge over the Z4 with regard to performance driving characteristics. Yet, in the face of that majority opinion (or even coming to that conclusion by personally by driving the two), we all opted for the E89.

Despite the financial difference between the two, I think this pattern demonstrates that this choice is not one can that can be made looking at specifications and skid pad statistics alone. We aren't talking about basic transportation here nor are we talking about racing: we're looking at machinery designed for the love of driving. At the end of the day, there's an emotional component to this decision that defies, or at least trumps, reasoned analysis.

I chose the E89 because it feels right. It speaks to me. I feel good in it. I like the way I look in it.

Analyze that.

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PS: The new ST movie was great!
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      12-01-2009, 08:35 AM   #39
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