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      10-27-2014, 09:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
You can run the same boost with the 35i and the 35is. The 35i software is not the limit in terms of max boost AFAIK. Reliability is.

What is so cool about the overboost function is increased reliability. If two cars both run, say, 15psi, but one drops it down to 11psi after 5 seconds, that car's components should last longer while the other car starts overtaking.
From what the I gather from the other thread is that the over boost function would be on top what is currently out for 35i, 35is. What ever the boost is now, there will be 7 second spurts of more power. I guess you can look at it as more boost when you need it and avoid unnecessary wear and tear when you don't.

Also interesting that the German forum members got this to work over a year ago. Pretty cool.
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      10-27-2014, 09:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant.S View Post
off topic kinda but i was reading in a German forum last year that some guys flashed the 35is rom on their DME and had the overboost function.
Very cool. Its great to see that members are finally getting the full bells and whistle while modding 35is.
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      11-09-2014, 05:16 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjorn View Post
You can run the same boost with the 35i and the 35is. The 35i software is not the limit in terms of max boost AFAIK. Reliability is.

What is so cool about the overboost function is increased reliability. If two cars both run, say, 15psi, but one drops it down to 11psi after 5 seconds, that car's components should last longer while the other car starts overtaking.
From what the I gather from the other thread is that the over boost function would be on top what is currently out for 35i, 35is. What ever the boost is now, there will be 7 second spurts of more power. I guess you can look at it as more boost when you need it and avoid unnecessary wear and tear when you don't.

Also interesting that the German forum members got this to work over a year ago. Pretty cool.
The 35i and 35is remap to the same power figures.

Wedge is already pushing 20PSI out of stock turbos. Overboost can't magically increase boost when the turbos are at their limit.
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      11-11-2014, 08:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
The 35i and 35is remap to the same power figures.

Wedge is already pushing 20PSI out of stock turbos. Overboost can't magically increase boost when the turbos are at their limit.
You're looking at the old COBB numbers which did not include the over boost function. Wedge has figured out to utilize this on top of the regular tune. It's not magic, no one said it was.

It's just using the function that was ignored for previous aftermarket tunes.

Just check out the other thread that I posted..
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      11-12-2014, 04:03 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
The 35i and 35is remap to the same power figures.

Wedge is already pushing 20PSI out of stock turbos. Overboost can't magically increase boost when the turbos are at their limit.
You're looking at the old COBB numbers which did not include the over boost function. Wedge has figured out to utilize this on top of the regular tune. It's not magic, no one said it was.

It's just using the function that was ignored for previous aftermarket tunes.

Just check out the other thread that I posted..
I did write a more detailed reply but the forum rejected it.

Basically the 335i and 335is have the same tuning potential.

You can flash a 335i with 335is ROM and it will get overboost.

It's just not something you really want. It's a bit like Turbo mode on intel processors. Just disable it and clock the processor up to it's stable max.

I doubt the Godzilla flash that BuraQ is producing uses overboost at all. All wedge was saying is that they can now manipulate overboost parameters.
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      11-13-2014, 08:13 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
I did write a more detailed reply but the forum rejected it.

Basically the 335i and 335is have the same tuning potential.

You can flash a 335i with 335is ROM and it will get overboost.

It's just not something you really want. It's a bit like Turbo mode on intel processors. Just disable it and clock the processor up to it's stable max.

I doubt the Godzilla flash that BuraQ is producing uses overboost at all. All wedge was saying is that they can now manipulate overboost parameters.
So just to clear things up I asked BuraQ about how over boost works on their tune. Here is his reply;


"Overboost does one primary thing, it adds to Load target which adds more boost and other things. It is more effective in the low-mid end power range. I can dictate how much boost/Load I can add "extra" per gear, similar to what a piggyback can do, by using the overboost table.

Adding too much "extra" load/boost useing the overboost table than "necessary" can lead to performance instability. It has to be tuned for balance.

All N54B30TO cars that are tuned by us the overboost table is utilized in some way or another. So yes my Godzilla map does utilize the overboost table

Lets say I used the main Load Target table to target 160 in a certain RPM range, that gives me 13-14 PSI. I can an add an additional 20 Load in the overboost table to give me 180 load (gross) to bump boost, and other things, up to about 17-18 PSI in the specificied RPM range."

There you have it. Overboost does increase load of regular boost, and it was used on Godzilla.

Good news, don't you agree?
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      11-13-2014, 08:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
I did write a more detailed reply but the forum rejected it.

Basically the 335i and 335is have the same tuning potential.

You can flash a 335i with 335is ROM and it will get overboost.

It's just not something you really want. It's a bit like Turbo mode on intel processors. Just disable it and clock the processor up to it's stable max.

I doubt the Godzilla flash that BuraQ is producing uses overboost at all. All wedge was saying is that they can now manipulate overboost parameters.
So just to clear things up I asked BuraQ about how over boost works on their tune. Here is his reply;


"Overboost does one primary thing, it adds to Load target which adds more boost and other things. It is more effective in the low-mid end power range. I can dictate how much boost/Load I can add "extra" per gear, similar to what a piggyback can do, by using the overboost table.

Adding too much "extra" load/boost useing the overboost table than "necessary" can lead to performance instability. It has to be tuned for balance.

All N54B30TO cars that are tuned by us the overboost table is utilized in some way or another. So yes my Godzilla map does utilize the overboost table

Lets say I used the main Load Target table to target 160 in a certain RPM range, that gives me 13-14 PSI. I can an add an additional 20 Load in the overboost table to give me 180 load (gross) to bump boost, and other things, up to about 17-18 PSI in the specificied RPM range."

There you have it. Overboost does increase load of regular boost, and it was used on Godzilla.

Good news, don't you agree?
So Instead of targeting 160 in the table with a non-is car you target 180.

All the overboost function is doing is making your car target a lower value when it's not active.

You can set the load as high as you like but there's only so much boost the turbo can produce.

The maximum load is the same between both the i and is.
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      11-13-2014, 07:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post

You can flash a 335i with 335is ROM and it will get overboost.

It's just not something you really want. It's a bit like Turbo mode on intel processors. Just disable it and clock the processor up to it's stable max.

I doubt the Godzilla flash that BuraQ is producing uses overboost at all. All wedge was saying is that they can now manipulate overboost parameters.
Just some clarification here on the Overboost feature.

Overboost has a timer which is said to be 7 seconds. Its a period of time that the "Overboost" table is active adding more Load to produce more boost. Here is what the stock overboost table on the IS looks like:



Here is the Load Target table also from the IS:



Now that this is out of the way lets take a look at the "non" N54B30TO tables ie Non 1M, 335is, Z435is





As you can see they have completely different values. The N54B30 overboost table is null, the table is useless, it doesnt work on other than the 1M, 335is, and the Z435is ie the N54B30TO cars

Using a custom map that was "originally" tuned for a N54B30 yes will work on a N54B30TO car, but the Overboost table is "disabled" so no overboost, and also borrowed PID's that do not work "optimal" with the N54B30TO. If the tuner was to activated the table with the current N54B30 calibrations their will be instability in the system. They would have to recalibrate PIDs and load target in which many are not going to do.

The 7 second activation is not subjected to a WOT session it is subjected to an over the base target "instance" which means I can hit overboost multiple times through out all gears and the time will reset when actual load falls below Load target (base)

As you can see we can dictate what gears to apply different amount of "added" load which will give and increase or decrease amount of boost.

This table is indeed active on our godzilla map but we use it in a different way for demanding and controlling boost.

Eventhough the N54B30 and the N54B30TO share the same engine, the software and DME version is what sets them remotely apart with two different animal characteristics.

Last edited by BQTuning; 11-13-2014 at 07:49 PM..
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      11-14-2014, 01:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post

You can flash a 335i with 335is ROM and it will get overboost.

It's just not something you really want. It's a bit like Turbo mode on intel processors. Just disable it and clock the processor up to it's stable max.

I doubt the Godzilla flash that BuraQ is producing uses overboost at all. All wedge was saying is that they can now manipulate overboost parameters.
Just some clarification here on the Overboost feature.

Overboost has a timer which is said to be 7 seconds. Its a period of time that the "Overboost" table is active adding more Load to produce more boost. Here is what the stock overboost table on the IS looks like:



Here is the Load Target table also from the IS:



Now that this is out of the way lets take a look at the "non" N54B30TO tables ie Non 1M, 335is, Z435is





As you can see they have completely different values. The N54B30 overboost table is null, the table is useless, it doesnt work on other than the 1M, 335is, and the Z435is ie the N54B30TO cars

Using a custom map that was "originally" tuned for a N54B30 yes will work on a N54B30TO car, but the Overboost table is "disabled" so no overboost, and also borrowed PID's that do not work "optimal" with the N54B30TO. If the tuner was to activated the table with the current N54B30 calibrations their will be instability in the system. They would have to recalibrate PIDs and load target in which many are not going to do.

The 7 second activation is not subjected to a WOT session it is subjected to an over the base target "instance" which means I can hit overboost multiple times through out all gears and the time will reset when actual load falls below Load target (base)

As you can see we can dictate what gears to apply different amount of "added" load which will give and increase or decrease amount of boost.

This table is indeed active on our godzilla map but we use it in a different way for demanding and controlling boost.

Eventhough the N54B30 and the N54B30TO share the same engine, the software and DME version is what sets them remotely apart with two different animal characteristics.
The point i'm trying to get across is that overboost isn't allowing the car to target higher load. It's just reeling the cars load targets in after 7 seconds.

If more power was able to be extracted from the is ROM then people would flash their cars with the _IS version of their ROM then begin tuning that.
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      11-14-2014, 01:46 PM   #32
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From the tables looks like over boost is adding low end load...

And looks like he mentioned that the tune swap wouldn't work , over boost would be disabled...
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      11-15-2014, 03:13 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981
From the tables looks like over boost is adding low end load...

And looks like he mentioned that the tune swap wouldn't work , over boost would be disabled...
The tables exist in the non-is ROM already. The calculation that adds overboost load to normal load to give you the target load is just not active.

If you flash the ROM with the _IS version then you will get that extra calculation.

The use of overboost in the map is not the reason the power figures are high. Wedge has a 335i not an is and he's the one putting down record power numbers.

The power figures are high on those maps because they are aggressive maps.
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      11-15-2014, 10:28 AM   #34
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He has an IS....
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      11-15-2014, 03:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post

The use of overboost in the map is not the reason the power figures are high. Wedge has a 335i not an is and he's the one putting down record power numbers.
Im the one who tuned his car, he has meth I dont, plus my car was in the shop for a broken driveshaft . However all this is my excuse cause I am too much of coward to push my personal own car like I did his he trusted me so it was time to beat the old record

Here is a perfect example of overboost on my car, you will not find another N54 running

http://datazap.me/u/wedgeperformance...ta=1-2-3-12-14

Now compare to other logs of cars on stock turbos, and tell us what you see is the difference in the logs

Edit: Btw you cannot flash a N54B30TO ROM on a N54B30 car, its already been tried and failed.

Last edited by BQTuning; 11-15-2014 at 03:31 PM..
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      11-15-2014, 03:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981 View Post
He has an IS....
http://www.e90post.com/forums/member.php?u=219172

About WedgePerformance

Car
'07 e92 AT Sport Montego Blue

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Im the one who tuned his car, he has meth I dont, plus my car was in the shop for a broken driveshaft . However all this is my excuse cause I am too much of coward to push my personal own car like I did his he trusted me so it was time to beat the old record

Here is a perfect example of overboost on my car, you will not find another N54 running

http://datazap.me/u/wedgeperformance...ta=1-2-3-12-14

Now compare to other logs of cars on stock turbos, and tell us what you see is the difference in the logs
The main difference I see is that the boost is constantly way above what the car is targeting. Which I think is down to the way you have tuned the WGDC PID. Is that the result of a very low 'I' value? Or is that just the logging tool not picking up the true requested load because of the overboost code?

They are very pretty logs though. I have Wedge added as a favourite on DataZap because of that. Always reassuring to compare my logs against you and Wedge's logs to see if I'm heading in the right direction.

Your car shreds drive shafts because of a combination of abuse and the harsh engagement of DCT. If you had a slushbox you would have less pretty logs but less downtime getting that shaft fixed.

Last edited by CarAbuser; 11-15-2014 at 04:06 PM..
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      11-16-2014, 01:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post

The main difference I see is that the boost is constantly way above what the car is targeting. Which I think is down to the way you have tuned the WGDC PID. Is that the result of a very low 'I' value? Or is that just the logging tool not picking up the true requested load because of the overboost code?
PID's is to "control boost", not make boost, and to keep boost "on target" either reaching it slower or faster all depends on what is desired. I-Factor is a refresh rate for the P factor, and the D-Factor has its own multiplier table. You cant make changes to one table without adjusting the other or not knowing "where" to make the adjustments and by how much -/+

The logging tool is the COBB AP v3. WGDC Adder is what increases boost along with Load target. WGDC cealing is exactly that, but can be used in many ways to manipulate WGDC adder or boost

Our entire method of controlling boost is dependant on multiple tables not just PIDs whihc yes is the core

Not only does overboost "add" to the load base it helps to sustain "load" longer with a less drop rate = holding more boost up top via load without having to contribute much to the WGDC adder. So the DME is averaging out the load.

Now if you look at my partners log on his non IS car whom his pushing 15% more boost than I am but I am hold more boost up top than he is a perfect example of the avdantages of having overboost enabled

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
Your car shreds drive shafts because of a combination of abuse and the harsh engagement of DCT. If you had a slushbox you would have less pretty logs but less downtime getting that shaft fixed.
LOL ! I would have to disagree here. A slush box can have just as much pretty logs as a DCT can. Here is my partner's car running 23 PSI, on stock turbos, blind folded (it can only see up to 19.7 PSI max shown in flatline), world record N54 dyno car, but with proper fueling and weather - DA:

http://datazap.me/u/wedgeperformance...data=2-3-16-18

The key to all this is properly tuned PIDs. No I would never tune a customer's car like we do our own cars running blind on boost unless they are 100% aware of it and request it. We know how much boost is running blind and compensated on the fuel for it, just an FYI.

You should give us a try in tuning your car, it will be a started for you. Also our maps are "unlocked" and we will teach you how to use them based on request. Ive made it that simple, took me over a year to get them down packed.

Last edited by BQTuning; 11-16-2014 at 01:30 AM..
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      11-16-2014, 01:36 AM   #38
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Here is an FYI, so people dont end up guessing of what we are doing.

We have stock turbos pushing 23 PSI, not just on the dyno but its street drivable (log posted above) Is it healthy NO, is it fun, hell yea it is. Do we care umm if we did we wouldnt be pushing north of 20 PSI . You got to pay to play.

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      11-16-2014, 04:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Not only does overboost "add" to the load base it helps to sustain "load" longer with a less drop rate = holding more boost up top via load without having to contribute much to the WGDC adder. So the DME is averaging out the load.
How does the overboost table help to hold more load? Surely the nature of the table is to allow higher peak power figures on non-tuned for short amounts of time. Allowing BMW to claim a high power figure without worrying too much about extra wear and tear caused by sustained hard driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
You should give us a try in tuning your car, it will be a started for you. Also our maps are "unlocked" and we will teach you how to use them based on request. Ive made it that simple, took me over a year to get them down packed.
I was talking to Wedge a while ago about it. I don't have a CobbAP and you don't create maps in TunerPro. V8Bait and DesertDude gave me some tips for creating my own map based on Shiv's old template files as no companies at the time were tuning the INA0S ROM.
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      11-16-2014, 11:40 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarAbuser View Post
How does the overboost table help to hold more load? Surely the nature of the table is to allow higher peak power figures on non-tuned for short amounts of time. Allowing BMW to claim a high power figure without worrying too much about extra wear and tear caused by sustained hard driving.
Like any other "offset" table would do based on the DME's logic. Your question would be the same of asking " How does the boost table help to hold more boost ? " As you should already be aware of, there are multiple tables in the DME for manipulating boost.

For us N54B30TO owners we have multiple tables in ATR for Load maniplulation, whereas on N54B30 cars you only have one unless you are using TunerPro, and the logic between TP vs ATR do not agree in logic terms on tuning also.

I think the problem here is you cannot compare TP logic with ATR logic vise versa on this platform.
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      11-16-2014, 01:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuraQ View Post
Like any other "offset" table would do based on the DME's logic. Your question would be the same of asking " How does the boost table help to hold more boost ? " As you should already be aware of, there are multiple tables in the DME for manipulating boost.

For us N54B30TO owners we have multiple tables in ATR for Load maniplulation, whereas on N54B30 cars you only have one unless you are using TunerPro, and the logic between TP vs ATR do not agree in logic terms on tuning also.

I think the problem here is you cannot compare TP logic with ATR logic vise versa on this platform.
Well you claim the overboost function enables you to sustain the load for longer.

How does a N54B30TO car with a load target of 160 + 30 from the overboost table (190 total) sustain a higher actual load figure than a N54B30 car with a load target of 190?

As I see it the overboost function is just adding to your load setpoint and not actually allowing the car to achieve a higher actual load.

Since the actual hardware in the IS model is identical to the standard model I don't see how you could get any more power out of the engine.
The exhaust is slightly different but I believe that is only for sound purposes and there's no difference in flow.
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      11-16-2014, 06:28 PM   #42
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Quote:
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Well you claim the overboost function enables you to sustain the load for longer.

How does a N54B30TO car with a load target of 160 + 30 from the overboost table (190 total) sustain a higher actual load figure than a N54B30 car with a load target of 190?

As I see it the overboost function is just adding to your load setpoint and not actually allowing the car to achieve a higher actual load.

Since the actual hardware in the IS model is identical to the standard model I don't see how you could get any more power out of the engine.
The exhaust is slightly different but I believe that is only for sound purposes and there's no difference in flow.
No, your example is not how we use the OB table. I am going to leave it as personal choice, and it just doesnt make any sense to drag this anymore as we are coming from two opposite tuning tools with various differences in logic.
Appreciate 0
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