What Makes a Real M Car (E89is Discussion)?

[Asbjorn]

The question should not be what makes a real M car, but what makes a real Z car / roadster.

The 35is already has the transmission from the M3 and the engine from the 1M (or is it the other way around?). And we all know that the N54 can easily be tuned to the same power as both the existing and upcoming M3 engines. It weighs about the same, but does not come with any LSD and the suspension and steering is more comfortable.

Given that most of us don't go to the track, actually we should be happier driving a top Z car rather than a less comfortable/practical M car with higher running costs. The Z is still sportier and stiffer than any of the regular 1/3/6-series convertibles.

That doesn't mean everything is perfect though. The Z cars are all born with RFTs and I cannot get into my head why they haven't switched to at least the latest generation RFTs with the LCI. I mean even the M135i has better tires from factory. Also they could have easily made the car more programmable like M cars are.

Anyway, if you switch out the tires for something better you basically end up with a car with M car performance in a day-to-day package. Of course the car is not built for track use as everything will overheat after a few laps. But on the positive side, if you don't track the car, you haven't paid any extra for something you don't need. Alot of M cars aren't even built for track use anymore, but of course you can still tell you friends that you have an M car. With the 35is you just can't.

I wish the IS would have some thoughtful Z-related badges instead of M badges. The concept of what the Z is, imo the very definition of day-to-day sheer driving pleasure, is something that BMW could market much better with a revised (Z or roadster)brand. The way they currently use the M brand is unnecessary and wrong. Among Z4 or M3 convertible buyers for that matter, how many really wants a car for motorsport use, or even worse, a car that pretends to be?

[williakz]

Good post, well-argued and very thought-provoking. I like your idea of "branding" the Z and then doing some serious marketing around the brand. The alternative is an endless progression of little "M" badges on steering wheels, wheel hubs, and door sills all across the line, weakening the M brand until it sinks in a sea of meaninglessness.

[M7NDP]

A chap at work here has just bought his first BMW and what was his first mod - he put an ///M badge on the back so it now reads ///M318i... Can someone hold him while I ...

[Crazykoh]

///Z FTW!!!

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by keepittrill

Has anyone here had a 35is and an F10 or E92? What do you think the difference is, from a "behind the wheel" perspective?

I came from e46 M3 to => e89 Sdrive Z4 35i to my now => e92 M3 ... here is what I think from a behind the wheel perspective ...

e46 M3 ... Great car and fun to drive

e89 Sdrive Z4 35i ... this was and is a real fun car.

e92 M3 ... best BMW I've ever driven (this be my #7)

OP ... Good questions and a very interesting thread

PS. I do plan to test drive a 35is Z4 in the near future perhaps even return to one since as I said it's a real fun car

[mbetoni]

Originally Posted by Mr. ///M3 RD

OP ... Good questions and a very interesting thread

Thanks very much! Has turned into exactly what I was hoping for, a really interesting discussion.

Not owning the IS yet, I can also add, the current M3 is one of the most amazing cars I've ever driven. Just mind-boggling drop your jaw amazing. If I wasn't a die-hard Roadster guy, I would have considered it.

Also, Asbjorn, LOVED your post. Really well thought out and interesting, thanks for that.

[Hoa]

every real M car has an M engine except the 1M. Z3M and Z4M always have an M3 engine in it except E89. The E89 Z4M would need to have an M3 engine, M3 brakes, M3 suspension, M3 diff, M3 etc.

Yes, it does fit the V8 from M3. I think BMW is afraid of making another Z4M because the last Z4M handles too well. Its just like putting a real M engine in the 1M. It would smoke the M3 and makes the M3 look bad. The Z4 GT3 is an example of how the Z4M could have been if we had one. too bad BMW put a 400k price tag on it

[keepittrill]

Originally Posted by M7NDP

A chap at work here has just bought his first BMW and what was his first mod - he put an ///M badge on the back so it now reads ///M318i... Can someone hold him while I ...

Blasphe///My!

[keepittrill]

Originally Posted by Mr. ///M3 RD

I came from e46 M3 to => e89 Sdrive Z4 35i to my now => e92 M3 ... here is what I think from a behind the wheel perspective ...

e46 M3 ... Great car and fun to drive

e89 Sdrive Z4 35i ... this was and is a real fun car.

e92 M3 ... best BMW I've ever driven (this be my #7)

OP ... Good questions and a very interesting thread

PS. I do plan to test drive a 35is Z4 in the near future perhaps even return to one since as I said it's a real fun car

If you were to have either car as a purely "fun" car, which one would you choose? And if they were to make a Z4 M, with even more power and performance than the IS, would it be a hands down win over the M3? (Not taking into account the number of seats and practicality)

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

Alot of M cars aren't even built for track use anymore, but of course you can still tell you friends that you have an M car.

That brand value is so huge

[williakz]

Yeah, it's the Cadillac of brands...

[jparnes1]

I've driven M3's, M5's and M6's (at the BMW Performance Driving School) and they are truly amazing cars. But afterwards I said to myself that they're way too much car for street driving. Sure you can say you have an M, but you'll never use the car at its real potential. Perhaps the same can be said of the Z4. But for me, this is a super fast car with great handling and comfy enough for long drives. I can't ask for more. It has all the qualities I want for non-track use with significantly lower maintenance costs than M cars. Would I buy a Z4 M if it was available? Nope. But I'd want to drive one!

[williakz]

Good post. CAFE standards are going to "solve" all these problems for us. Enjoy while you can, fellas.

BTW, jparnes1, which stubby antenna did you get for your Z4, if you don't mind my asking? I cannot abide that hideous whip!

[jparnes1]

Oh, I don't remember, but they're all over eBay. cheap.

[BMWZ4RIDER]

I too drove the V8 powered M3 with DCT and the 35is with DCT at the Spartanburg Performance school in back to back events, among other Bimmers- 650i, 750IL, X3 and the incredible for its size and girth X5M. The M3 was used in the auto cross event. The immediate throttle response, low end power and torque, braking and steering in that order was outstanding and worthy of the M Badge.
The 35is was used for a 5 lap event on the somewhat square shaped track under full power and full braking through out. The Z compared to the M3 has that initial low end turbo lag when 1st laying on the throttle and was slower to reach the real power band which is in the mid to high RPM range. The brakes were definitely less robust on the Z vs M3 overall.
I love my Z but to be an M or as I agree would be great a "Z" badged Bimmer, the following would be my wish list needed to make the grade:
ridiculous V8 power
engine compartment cross braces
stiffer frame
6 piston F and R brakes
larger shoes and rubber
higher performance suspension

I can only dream.
.

[mbetoni]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

I've driven M3's, M5's and M6's (at the BMW Performance Driving School) and they are truly amazing cars. But afterwards I said to myself that they're way too much car for street driving.

I could not AGREE more. I also walked away thinking to myself "wow, what a shame the majority of M3 owners will never know what this thing is capable of."

[BMWZ4RIDER]

Just found this in a BMW Newsletter. It is for the 335i BUT what is the MOST interesting is what BMW is marketing for making a stock 335i sedan into what they now call a M Performance machine.

All it takes is Software tune for a measly bump of 20 HP, put on a "High performance engine cover (which will definitely increase HP), stick on a few M badges and you now have a real M car.

Someone please save BMW.


BMW M Performance Power Kit
Boost the power of your BMW 335i or 335i xDrive Sedan with the M Performance Power Kit

If you want to improve upon the already impressive performance of your BMW, you have to outfit it with the best available technology. That is why BMW is always innovating new options for equipping and retrofitting its vehicles. When you give your BMW 335i Sedan or 335i xDrive Sedan (2012 model year or later) a power boost with the M Performance Power Kit, you will discover the true potential of your Ultimate Driving Machine.

The Power Kit is applicable to all current generation 335i and xDrive models (excluding the Active Hybrid 3). Whether you are looking for that extra edge for your current 335i or you would like to have it installed before you even take delivery, the M Performance Power Kit is for you. Regardless if you currently own your 335i or are still in the ordering process, you can purchase the kit on www.shopbmwusa.com or talk to your client advisor to order and install this kit.

The BMW M Performance Power Kit upgrades your vehicle’s capabilities with modified engine tuning software, boosting your engine’s performance while keeping everything running smoothly and efficiently. The software upgrade is complemented by a new high-capacity M Performance Engine Air Intake system and accompanying M Performance engine cover and rocker panel decals to signify the improvements.

The result of these upgrades is an additional 20 horsepower over stock and an extra 32 lb-ft of torque for automatic transmission equipped vehicles. Manual equipped vehicles gain an extra 17 lb-ft of torque over stock. In sport mode, accelerator pedal calibration has been sharpened resulting in a greater rate of acceleration with less throttle input for a more direct, racing inspired feel. When decelerating, there is now a greater “exhaust burble” which serves to enhance the driving experience even further. In real driving conditions, these upgrades can reduce 0-60 mph times by 0.2 seconds and 50-75 mph times by 0.5 seconds.

As always, the M Performance Power Kit adheres to the stringent BMW Group test standards. This means, even with the upgrades, your vehicle will retain its original emissions certification and the original fuel efficiency ratings.

The vehicle’s original BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty is not affected by the installation of the M Performance Power Kit, and Kit components are covered under warranty for the duration of the original BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty (4 Years / 50,000 miles) if purchased at the time of new vehicle sale, or for 2 Years / unlimited miles if installed later, whichever is greater.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4RIDER

...making a stock 335i sedan into what [BMW] now call a M Performance machine.

...Software tune for a measly bump of 20 HP
...a "High performance engine cover
...a few M badges

...and you now have a real M car.

Someone please save BMW.

I believe BMW is doing just fine ($$$), thank you very much. Welcome to the world of "brand management" and ruthless exploitation of consumer trust in that brand. CAFE standards will destroy the M and other big displacement cars in short order (next 5-7 years); BMW is just cashing in their chips before the game clock runs out.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by williakz

I believe BMW is doing just fine ($$$), thank you very much. Welcome to the world of "brand management" and ruthless exploitation of consumer trust in that brand. CAFE standards will destroy the M and other big displacement cars in short order (next 5-7 years); BMW is just cashing in their chips before the game clock runs out.

I disagree. Look what BMW and others have done to meet CAFE standards - decreased the number of cylinders while maintaining engine performance via turbochargers. They've figured out, through other technological innovations, how to make a high performance car get 25 city / 35 highway in many of their models. Those numbers are only going up. Was the V8 M3 the last "real man's" M3? I think that's just nostalgia talking. Will they be offering a 4 cylinder M car some day? Maybe, with 4 turbochargers!

[jts1981]

As an owner of an IS I cant tell you its great fun, but no M car. Its a brilliant cruiser. The electronics are great and all, and yea its great of gas, emissions, blah blah blah. But I miss the simplicity of mechanical systems. I actually miss the steering from my E46 330i, which I built up for the track. It was more intuitive. I knew exactly what the car was doing at any given time, and no turbo lag( i had stage 1 aa super charger)

I dont mind the twin turbo 6, we actually have more torque than an M3 which is great. i don't think the engine alone makes an M car.

Really its come down to, as mentioned by others, steering, braking, cooling. And not in any particular order but in equal effort. M cars should excel from the factory with all these attribute dialed in and these components should speak to the driver, reminding him why he is a "driver" in the first place. Its all about the balance.

Going fwd I think i'd have a leased brand new BMW as a daily driver, and pick up a used E46 M3 to build, the last true M car. One is fun yet docile, and under warranty. The other a true drivers car.

BTW i hate the M6. It was made for rappers and fat Americans.

thats my 2 cents...

btw, I heard promising feedback from other members that switched to a coilover system. That plus an LSD would definitely help...but not sure if it'll feel like an M.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by jts1981

As an owner of an [2013 Z4 35is] ... yea its great of gas, emissions, blah blah blah.

2013 Z4 Fuel Efficiency

35is
17 City 24 Highway

35i
19 City 26 Highway

28i
22 City 34 Highway


Under CAFE, only the 28i has a future. Anyone up for THAT screamer?

[BMWZ4RIDER]

CAFE STANDARDS BE DAMMED. If I am going to drive a performance car, I am not going to ask about fuel economy. That's what the family hauler is for.
For me and the 30 gallons per hour, yes you read this right- 30 GPH, that my pig of a boat eats when running at a blistering 15 knots, this will always be my standard for what I consider my personal POOR fuel economy. I am getting a bargain from from the 19 MPG /250-280 miles per tank from the high performance, 300 HP 35i, lead footing around. Compare this to the 300 gallons my boat holds in which I can travel total of 130-150 miles total per tank.
Bring on the V8 M series ANY day.