Audio Upgrade Questions

[mmsdrive35i]

Hello, relatively new user here! I'm looking to upgrade the audio in my 2010 Z4 35i, I believe I currently have the Standard Hi-Fi audio package. I've been reading some posts on these forums, and trying to do research. I'm looking at purchasing this speaker kit...https://www.bavsound.com/Product/bsd...e-bmw-e89-hifi

I've read however that this doesn't always make a big difference, and some have recommended purchasing an additional 2 channel amp and a new deck/head unit. I don't know very much about car audio, so I'm looking for some advice here. Can anyone recommend me some decks/head units that would fit my vehicle, and also some amps? Thanks much for the advice!

Edit** I was also looking to add a subwoofer, but I wasn't sure where I would even mount one in this vehicle or what size would fit where.

[fmorelli]

Let's make sure we know what you have. Can you enter your vin at http://www.bmwvin.com and tell us the specific code it states on the sound system line item?

Filippo

[mmsdrive35i]

Originally Posted by fmorelli

Let's make sure we know what you have. Can you enter your vin at http://www.bmwvin.com and tell us the specific code it states on the sound system line item?

Filippo

S676A HiFi speaker system

However under the Vehicle Upgrades section it says: "High-End sound system"

[fmorelli]

You have the 11-speaker system with 8 channel DSP amp. It's the same one as in my car. I think the first question to ask is, what are you looking for improvement-wise? A few of us have done updates to the S676A and can provide some feedback and recommendations. I have experience with the Bavsound set, along with a few other things (my stereo is still being modified so I can't speak to results on everything I'm working on).

Filippo

[mrkoven]

Bavsound was underwhelming in my previous car, I went Focal this time and I'm very happy.

[mmsdrive35i]

Originally Posted by fmorelli

You have the 11-speaker system with 8 channel DSP amp. It's the same one as in my car. I think the first question to ask is, what are you looking for improvement-wise? A few of us have done updates to the S676A and can provide some feedback and recommendations. I have experience with the Bavsound set, along with a few other things (my stereo is still being modified so I can't speak to results on everything I'm working on).

Filippo

Well I listen to very bassy music, mostly electronic/hip-hop. I notice at louder volumes, the bass just sounds awful and breaks up. In fact, I can't really go very loud before the bass hits just sound bad. I found that turning down the bass levels, turning up treble, and moving more of the sound from the rear to the fronts helped a bit. However, I would like to listen at louder levels and not have the bass fail out. This is why I was debating an independent subwoofer.

Mrkoven mentions the Bavsound set may not be all that worth it. What is your opinion on them? did you see a marked sound quality improvement?

[mmsdrive35i]

Originally Posted by mrkoven

Bavsound was underwhelming in my previous car, I went Focal this time and I'm very happy.

Thanks for the tip, I will check out Focal audio as well.

[davis449]

I have the Top-Fi, but you can do the same thing I did and get similar results. Get the Technics harness (so no cutting of factory wiring), add a GOOD 10" sub (I use a pre-boxed JL), an amp (I use a 600 watt JL), and the remote control bass adjustment knob. Mine fits perfect right at the back of the trunk and, in no way, interferes with the top. I highly recommend going with an amp (like my JL) where the remote bass control is a volume adjustment for the sub and NOT a gain adjustment. You lose a little bit of room, but it's the only way to get bass (which seems to be what you're after) that's going to make any difference in this car. I can be rolling top down 90+ MPH and still here the bass and then turn it down when I put the top up so I don't go deaf.

[mmsdrive35i]

Originally Posted by davis449

I have the Top-Fi, but you can do the same thing I did and get similar results. Get the Technics harness (so no cutting of factory wiring), add a GOOD 10" sub (I use a pre-boxed JL), an amp (I use a 600 watt JL), and the remote control bass adjustment knob. Mine fits perfect right at the back of the trunk and, in no way, interferes with the top. I highly recommend going with an amp (like my JL) where the remote bass control is a volume adjustment for the sub and NOT a gain adjustment. You lose a little bit of room, but it's the only way to get bass (which seems to be what you're after) that's going to make any difference in this car. I can be rolling top down 90+ MPH and still here the bass and then turn it down when I put the top up so I don't go deaf.

Awesome advice! Thanks much. Would you possibly have links to the sub/amp/harness?

[davis449]

Get the harness here:

https://technicpnp.com/product/hifi-...ub-harnessloc/

Takes him a couple days to make it.

Subwoofer Model:

http://www.jlaudio.com/cs110tg-tw3-c...-systems-93302

Amplifier:

http://www.jlaudio.com/xd600-1v2-car...plifiers-98604

Also, you may want to consider this:

http://www.jlaudio.com/acs110lg-tw1-...-systems-93334

I'm not much for all-in-one units, but being that this is a JL Audio product and after seeing the specs, it's probably what I would've gone for had it been readily available to me. Not too sure about it's dimensions, though, so I would measure. It also will use the adjustment knob that's geared for volume and not gain.

I sourced my sub and amp locally. Just search around for the best price you can find. You don't have to use JL like I did. Just something high powered and high quality.

[fmorelli]

davis449 could you post a photo or two of where you have your sub/amp installed?

Filippo

[fmorelli]

Originally Posted by mmsdrive35i

Awesome advice! Thanks much. Would you possibly have links to the sub/amp/harness?

If you are primarily looking for sub, then what davis449 suggested seems like a good consideration.

Bavsound does not address bass - it's a mid-range/tweeter solution set. You can order the "ghost" woofers but that's a different animal. There are also 6" mid-bass speakers in the front kick panels (by your feet). I am in the middle of swapping in Hertz for those. There are other choices. For the 2 8" woofers (not subs!) on the rear panel, I am swapping in Rainbows.

I started with the Bavsound kit for the mids/highs. After installing those I began noticing how the amp sucked :-). So I purchased a complete bimmertech solution (https://www.bimmer-tech.net/audio-amplifier-for-bmw/) - which is an audiotech fisher amp/dsp combo that is plug-n-play to the Z4. It is fully programmable DSP with 8-channel amp, and there are outboard connections to run a separate amp/sub if I decided to add on.

My hope was replacing the 6" and 8" speakers, along with a good amp/dsp that is well tuned, would get the sound I want. I am still in mid-project so I can't tell you the results.

One thing - know that in Germany there are many speaker setups that can be purchased for this car. In the USA, not so much. I ordered some of my stuff direct from Germany. Part of this exercise is budget. The JL audio stuff davis449 has is good quality. But you can choose to spend less to solve the problem - remember your system is only as good as your worse component anyway. I think davis449 sounds like an expedient improvement. If you want to know more about replacement of system components, I'm happy to bend your ear.

I would not replace the head unit. I would also not splice any factory wiring. I like my stuff to look stock. That said, I'm hoping davis449 posts photos of his sub install as I'd like to see it (who knows, I may be in for a sub after finishing up all this other work.)

One last thing - how are you getting sound to the car? Bluetooth or audio jack?

Filippo

[mmsdrive35i]

Originally Posted by fmorelli

If you are primarily looking for sub, then what davis449 suggested seems like a good consideration.

Bavsound does not address bass - it's a mid-range/tweeter solution set. You can order the "ghost" woofers but that's a different animal. There are also 6" mid-bass speakers in the front kick panels (by your feet). I am in the middle of swapping in Hertz for those. There are other choices. For the 2 8" woofers (not subs!) on the rear panel, I am swapping in Rainbows.

I started with the Bavsound kit for the mids/highs. After installing those I began noticing how the amp sucked :-). So I purchased a complete bimmertech solution (https://www.bimmer-tech.net/audio-amplifier-for-bmw/) - which is an audiotech fisher amp/dsp combo that is plug-n-play to the Z4. It is fully programmable DSP with 8-channel amp, and there are outboard connections to run a separate amp/sub if I decided to add on.

My hope was replacing the 6" and 8" speakers, along with a good amp/dsp that is well tuned, would get the sound I want. I am still in mid-project so I can't tell you the results.

One thing - know that in Germany there are many speaker setups that can be purchased for this car. In the USA, not so much. I ordered some of my stuff direct from Germany. Part of this exercise is budget. The JL audio stuff davis449 has is good quality. But you can choose to spend less to solve the problem - remember your system is only as good as your worse component anyway. I think davis449 sounds like an expedient improvement. If you want to know more about replacement of system components, I'm happy to bend your ear.

I would not replace the head unit. I would also not splice any factory wiring. I like my stuff to look stock. That said, I'm hoping davis449 posts photos of his sub install as I'd like to see it (who knows, I may be in for a sub after finishing up all this other work.)

One last thing - how are you getting sound to the car? Bluetooth or audio jack?

Filippo

Right now I'm using the Aux cable on my phone. I suppose I could burn CD's as well but that's much more of a hassle. I don't have the IDrive system.

[distinctperson]

Originally Posted by mmsdrive35i

Right now I'm using the Aux cable on my phone. I suppose I could burn CD's as well but that's much more of a hassle. I don't have the IDrive system.

I highly suggest you visit a reputable high-end auto audio shop in a nearby major town for a specific advice on options.

On my former E89 (with S676A option), I had a professional shop install an encased 11 channel JL amp in the trunk, along with replacing the front 3-way speaker system, adding sound insulation as well as installing a rear camera (activated on reverse automatically) for a grand total of $4k. It was expensive, and I lost everything because the car was totaled, but it made quite a significant difference in bass and eliminated top volume distortion. I really "felt" the enhanced fidelity.

While you may choose not to spend $ to that tune, I still suggest you visit a reputable audio shop for advice on this matter, as most people here are still experimenting and can not offer a concrete advice.

Best of luck.

[fmorelli]

The sound deadening is a great idea. Not just for the stereo, but it's generally lowered the noise threshold in my car (more pleasant) and the exhaust note is more distinct.

I agree with distinctperson - there are few Z4 owners modding cars. Of those many of them have others do the work so they can speak to results and components. There are a few people that have mods with experience but this forum is not frequented so much by them these days. Since I am not finished, I can't offer final advice. Visiting a local shop with a good reputation is a great idea.

Aux cable works well. I ended up trying 4 bluetooth units and went with a WMA1000. I had to order it from a European seller, but it works reasonably well in our cars (mine is setup like yours).

Filippo

[distinctperson]

Correct. The sound deadening also has a pleasant side-effect: eliminating (or reducing) rattles in the car. Some of the rattling at higher volumes may not emanate from torn/broken speakers, but rather from the loose plastic/shielding. Adding insulation took care of a great deal of that.

[Lurcher]

Wow - see what happens when I get back from vacation and miss a Monday out here!

Just keep in mind - this is a convertible and that's the primary reason you will never get "really good" sound in this car - so just keep you expectations reasonable.

I've went on a different tangent, using Match tweeters (drop in replacements) and Mini (yes, that Mini) midrange speakers, and a A-F amp. I'm just playing around with a budget build on this vehicle.

Others have mentioned the bass issues, is what it is and they some good options. Whatever you do - keep us updated out here and feel free to ask questions. We are a small group :-)

[davis449]

Plenty of install pics:

[davis449]

I went the route I went because I do have a lot of experience with adding subs and changing head units in a variety of European cars dating back to 2003. What I learned over the years is that there's almost always a simple, clean add-on solution to the portion of the sound system in any given car you wish to address so long as you are satisfied with all the other components you don't intend to modify\replace. Research is all that's required. The Z4 was not an issue for me and the lack of support on the car audio end wasn't either. I did my research and found, on my own, everything I needed to accomplish my personal goal.

IMO, the Top-Fi components sound just fine when you tune them via the onboard EQ and overall level adjustments (bass, mid, and treble controls). Tuned to what I consider their best, they just don't have the bass. I should also mention that I only use 6 of the 12 speakers in the car. The surround mode, not matter what you do, just sounds like garbage to me so I leave it off and, therefore, only use the footwell woofers, the mids, and the tweeters. So, anyway, I addressed the weakness I found.

The nice thing about this setup is that the only adjusting I ever do is with the bass volume knob. The EQ was set and forget. Issues I have had with many other cars I have done this with is finding that balance between the stock speakers (with or without a HU replacement) and the gain level on the amp. Going with this JL amp eliminated that problem as the gain was, like the stock EQ, set and forget. The knob is, simply, controlling the sub's volume.

Now, OP, you may not have the EQ with your Hi-Fi system, but I believe that the same could be accomplished by adjusting the overall controls (bass, mid, treble) in your headunit to make the sound pleasing to your ears. Just remember to ignore the "hole" you are going to address with the sub and think only of the mids and highs as you adjust. Then you can add the sub and tune it to your liking.

However, if you are not satisfied at all with the stock speakers no matter what adjustments you have made, then you will need to go the route fmorelli and mmsdrive35i are talking about and really invest in replacing the components. I have another vehicle with Bose in it that I swapped the HU in (because the OEM one was legit broken) and added a low end sub and amp. It's been borderline tolerable and I was about to go all out and replace the front and rear speakers. Then I discovered that the upper end Kenwood HU I purchaseed to replace the stock one had individual gain adjustments for each speaker. My issues were WAY too much mid bass that I couldn't mitigate with the advanced EQ it has. The amount of midbass was drowning out the highs. Reducing the gain levels for both the front and rear worked wonders. Moral of the story: don't give up right away and really explore the capabilities of your aftermarket equipment before spending more money.

One last thing I will say is that fmorelli, mmsdrive35i, and I are in disagreement on the "local, high-end shop" thing. IMO and experience, this is the quickest way to get screwed out of your money. I took this car to one of these where I live that I have a long standing relationship with. In the past I took my vehicles to them for installation of things I didn't have the time and/or tools to install. This place has all the credentials you could ask for and crazy, amazing Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. etc. bullshit installs under their belt. This shop does clean looking installs and quality custom fab work, hence why I was there. I needed their expertise to figure out the best place for the amp and wanted them to do the wiring from the battery to the amp once that location was chosen. Those particular tasks are something they are WAY better at than me. The wiring harness stuff for add-a-sub and HU's, etc. is all stuff I can do\figure out myself. They laughed when I presented them with the Technic harness. "These things never work". Yeah, sure they don't. I had to walk the highly experienced installer through the wiring schematics of the harness and how it relates to what we were installing. Once he finally understood and, of course, when install was done he asked me for all the details concerning where I got it and how much it cost and OMG OMG OMG.

[fmorelli]

Originally Posted by davis449

One last thing I will say is that fmorelli, mmsdrive35i, and I are in disagreement on the "local, high-end shop" thing. IMO and experience, this is the quickest way to get screwed out of your money.

I'm not sure I'd condemn the whole audio installation industry from one experience, but that's certainly one's prerogative. For some people the installers is a good choice; especially in the Z4 space where a lot of people are not necessarily DIYers.

I'm hand rolling my whole setup, but I've built stereo tube amps and such, so I know enough to get myself in trouble. And it is a convertible so it only gets so good.

Thanks for posting the photos, btw. I won't be surprised if I do a sub when it is all said and done. But first I need to finish what I've started! :-)

Filippo

[Lurcher]

Originally Posted by fmorelli

But first I need to finish what I've started! :-)

Filippo

Yes, you do

[davis449]

Originally Posted by fmorelli

I'm not sure I'd condemn the whole audio installation industry from one experience, but that's certainly one's prerogative. For some people the installers is a good choice; especially in the Z4 space where a lot of people are not necessarily DIYers.

Let me further clarify. I don't think it's the best idea to go to any installer without first having researched what you want to do and how it's done. The place here is NOT the only one I've had this kind of experience with, I was simply using it as one example. I, personally, just cannot recommend someone walk blindly into a car stereo shop, no matter their reputation, and not have an idea of how all this stuff works and figuring out the pitfalls where they can get you. Remember, I went to these guys for a reason and, after I walked them through what I wanted as opposed to what they thought was appropriate, I came out of there a satisfied customer and they satisfied with their work.

I'm hand rolling my whole setup, but I've built stereo tube amps and such, so I know enough to get myself in trouble. And it is a convertible so it only gets so good.

Yes, indeed. Set your expectations with the e89, for sure. I set mine and am happy with the results. They are dead on what I expected.

Thanks for posting the photos, btw. I won't be surprised if I do a sub when it is all said and done. But first I need to finish what I've started! :-)

Filippo

Of course. I just want to help the OP and anyone else who reads this thread because, like you said, it's not a huge community and the knowledge from those of us who possess it should be shared. For sure I will follow your progress as you post it.