What is etiquette for naming dealer who cheated me?

[geoaero]

Just spent a few hours arguing with a sales manager at a yet un-named BMW dealer in St Louis County. The took my deposit two months ago on a car ordered from the factory, with the understanding that a $700 security deposit was included. Now, after I have taken delivery of car, I went back to dealer, and sales manager says there was no security deposit - even though the initial production order sheet says that it was included. However, when I signed the actual sales papers on Tuesday, it didn't occur to me that the security deposit was not listed. Today, the sales manager called me a liar; I called him a liar. What fun!

I will be reporting them to the state attorney general, as one of their employees told me that they have been to court numerous times over this same issue. However, I want to warn others of this practice, so as to make them aware of dealer shenanigans, but also to warn others of this specific dealership.

Is it cool to list the dealership?

[Darbs330]

Have you given up trying to get your money back?

It seems like a pretty simply thing to clear up... you have a receipt, right? (even if that's just a credit card statement or cancelled check).

Sooo...

- you have proof they took the money
- You have proof of the negotiated cost (production order)

Despite your frustration... I'd exhaust all attempts to get it sorted with the dealer - before you start the trash talk (you can always do that later).

- Bypass the sales manager & go straight to the general manager of the dealership.
- Lodge a complaint with the BBB
- Lodge a complaint with BMWNA
- Write to the local news Consumer Advocate (don't laugh)

Finally... try to enjoy your car!

[SHADOW4]

Originally Posted by geoaero

Just spent a few hours arguing with a sales manager at a yet un-named BMW dealer in St Louis County. The took my deposit two months ago on a car ordered from the factory, with the understanding that a $700 security deposit was included. Now, after I have taken delivery of car, I went back to dealer, and sales manager says there was no security deposit - even though the initial production order sheet says that it was included. However, when I signed the actual sales papers on Tuesday, it didn't occur to me that the security deposit was not listed. Today, the sales manager called me a liar; I called him a liar. What fun!

I will be reporting them to the state attorney general, as one of their employees told me that they have been to court numerous times over this same issue. However, I want to warn others of this practice, so as to make them aware of dealer shenanigans, but also to warn others of this specific dealership.

Is it cool to list the dealership?

Buying a new car should be fun! I'm not from the US but if the dealer don't backs off I would list the dealership. Salesmanager has a boss? Talk to the boss letting him know what his "stealers" do!

"Wellcome to the BMW family" i got in an letter, never knew they where "connected"

Don't give in!

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

I would make up a sign and march back and forth at there dealership, they will make out a cheque fairly quick I think ~s~

on the other hand, I would report them to the Better Business Bureau as well as to the BMW Head Office, you should have there address in your little folder you got with the manuals.

Good Luck with this

[geoaero]

Originally Posted by Darbs330

Have you given up trying to get your money back?

It seems like a pretty simply thing to clear up... you have a receipt, right? (even if that's just a credit card statement or cancelled check).

Sooo...

- you have proof they took the money
- You have proof of the negotiated cost (production order)

Despite your frustration... I'd exhaust all attempts to get it sorted with the dealer - before you start the trash talk (you can always do that later).

- Bypass the sales manager & go straight to the general manager of the dealership.
- Lodge a complaint with the BBB
- Lodge a complaint with BMWNA
- Write to the local news Consumer Advocate (don't laugh)

Finally... try to enjoy your car!

My problem is that I signed the final papers where the security deposit could have been listed, but wasn't. My other mistake was trusting the dealer! There won't be any detail of what the initial money went for. My new car order form has the security deposit listed, but sales papers don't. Their sales manager told me to take a hike.

I have already filed with the Better Business Bureau and with DealerRater.com. Trying to figure out how to contact the Attorney General in Missouri. I'll keep the name of the dealership to myself for a bit :-)

If anyone lurking here is in the market for a BMW in the St Louis area, you can PM me and I'll give you the name.

[geoaero]

Originally Posted by solgain@mac.com

I would make up a sign and march back and forth at there dealership, they will make out a cheque fairly quick I think ~s~

on the other hand, I would report them to the Better Business Bureau as well as to the BMW Head Office, you should have there address in your little folder you got with the manuals.

Good Luck with this

I was so pissed that I went right to a potential customer in the lot and spouted "Run away! They'll cheat you!" The acerbic sales manager kindly asked me to leave

[dwagner00]

Originally Posted by geoaero

My problem is that I signed the final papers where the security deposit could have been listed, but wasn't. My other mistake was trusting the dealer! There won't be any detail of what the initial money went for. My new car order form has the security deposit listed, but sales papers don't. Their sales manager told me to take a hike.

I have already filed with the Better Business Bureau and with DealerRater.com. Trying to figure out how to contact the Attorney General in Missouri. I'll keep the name of the dealership to myself for a bit :-)

If anyone lurking here is in the market for a BMW in the St Louis area, you can PM me and I'll give you the name.

I'm still a bit confused. You said there was a depost+security deposit, so (let's assume depost was $1000) do you have a canceled check for $1700 made out to the dealer? Or a credit card receipt?

I'm assuming that by "the security deposit wasn't there" you mean that the final paperwork said (assume car was $50,000) that you owed $49,000 and paid them $49,000 on delivery. In which case, showing them the canceled check or whatever, should be enough?

[Darbs330]

Originally Posted by geoaero

My problem is that I signed the final papers where the security deposit could have been listed, but wasn't... There won't be any detail of what the initial money went for. My new car order form has the security deposit listed, but sales papers don't. Their sales manager told me to take a hike.

Still, you have proof of the three things that matter...

- You have proof they took the money ($700)
- You have proof of the negotiated cost (production order)
- You have proof of the final cost you paid

Therefore, you have an iron clad case that they misrepresented the final cost (perhaps by accident - yeah right) & you subsequently overpaid due to their misrepresentation.

Try to cool your jets (hard, I know) and reach up in the dealership.

Finally, there's always small claims court. No lawyer needed... just have your facts & paperwork together.

AND... Go out and enjoy the HELL out of your car!
I can't think of better therapy.

[geoaero]

Originally Posted by dwagner00

I'm still a bit confused. You said there was a depost+security deposit, so (let's assume depost was $1000) do you have a canceled check for $1700 made out to the dealer? Or a credit card receipt?

I'm assuming that by "the security deposit wasn't there" you mean that the final paperwork said (assume car was $50,000) that you owed $49,000 and paid them $49,000 on delivery. In which case, showing them the canceled check or whatever, should be enough?

The initial out-of-pocket that I negotiated was $5600 - included first month's lease payment, acquisition fee, security deposit, licensing fee, and the rest was down payment. Since the car was to be ordered and built, they wanted a $2000 down payment. I made good with the other $3600 when I signed the final papers. I have a credit card receipt for $2000, but it is generic, and doesn't include the details of what it was for.

The new car order form (that I presume is sent to BMW) states that first payment, security, acq/lic fee, is included in the $5600. However, when I signed the long form lease papers, I didn't realize that they needed to list the security deposit there - or so they say. And since the deposit is not listed in these final sales papers, they told me to take a hike. Literally. Rude SOB sales manager.

Thanks for pressing me on making this clear. My document for the Attorney General will be more clear :-)

I think I'll win in the end (cross fingers here). If nothing else, I'm annoyingly persistent.

[geoaero]

Originally Posted by Darbs330

AND... Go out and enjoy the HELL out of your car!
I can't think of better therapy.

In fact, I drove my Z4, top down, to the BMW dealer to fight with them. Perfect day outside. Wow! :-)

[msimon18]

Do not do anythng that would allow them to sue you for damaging their business or reputation (good or bad). You could lose much bigger.

If necessaey take them to small claims court and make them show the judge actual receipts showing what you gave them money for. If you have something that shows the $700 but does not say for what they should still have a receipt somewhere for it. Would be better if it was a credit card sale then it would also be dated.

Good luck.

[cdmulders]

Adding my 2 cents worth, and I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of anyone's imagination - you have a signed document (the original new car order form) which states your initial contract contained a security deposit. You have acted and paid in good faith on this new car agreement. If I understand the situation correctly, the final sales form does not list a required lease security deposit, and BMW now wants you to pay it (again). This of course is BMW's problem and not yours, as they need to reconcile their final sales contract with your good-faith initial order contract. That you have signed the final sales contract and then noticed a discrepancy after the fact in my mind is not something BMW can use as a lever to state, "you signed the final sales form so you therefore have agreed that is is final and a security deposit was not paid". You agreed in good faith on the original order form that it included a security deposit, and the onus is now on BMW to explain how the final document and the original agreement differ, and they need to prove that they explained this to you before you signed the final paperwork. BMW can't slip something in (or take something out) and assume that it is noticed - such sneakiness does not pass, as we say in Canada, the Globe and Mail test. The fact that your dealer won't recognize a clerical error on their part, or perhaps a systemic error, is criminal. Of course, this is my humble opinion. Phew - a longer discourse than I expected.

As many others have said, Enjoy your Z4! Cheers.

[geoaero]

Originally Posted by cdmulders

Adding my 2 cents worth, and I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of anyone's imagination - you have a signed document (the original new car order form) which states your initial contract contained a security deposit. You have acted and paid in good faith on this new car agreement. If I understand the situation correctly, the final sales form does not list a required lease security deposit, and BMW now wants you to pay it (again). This of course is BMW's problem and not yours, as they need to reconcile their final sales contract with your good-faith initial order contract. That you have signed the final sales contract and then noticed a discrepancy after the fact in my mind is not something BMW can use as a lever to state, "you signed the final sales form so you therefore have agreed that is is final and a security deposit was not paid". You agreed in good faith on the original order form that it included a security deposit, and the onus is now on BMW to explain how the final document and the original agreement differ, and they need to prove that they explained this to you before you signed the final paperwork. BMW can't slip something in (or take something out) and assume that it is noticed - such sneakiness does not pass, as we say in Canada, the Globe and Mail test. The fact that your dealer won't recognize a clerical error on their part, or perhaps a systemic error, is criminal. Of course, this is my humble opinion. Phew - a longer discourse than I expected.

As many others have said, Enjoy your Z4! Cheers.

Thanks for your input. I like the "agreed in good faith" part. I think that this sales manager, and perhaps it is directed by the owner, may do this routinely to unsuspecting customers in order to increase the profitability of their leases.

Anyway, it is a beautiful weekend here in St Louis, and I shall drive my cares away! :-)

[Projekt35i]

sorry to hear this... should always look before signing anything man!