why dealing with car salesmen is so frustrating ?

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus H, it doesn't matter where you live. Just add the bloody tax. I will never understand the argument. If the product is 10K, advertise 10K in florida and $12k in California or whatever.

How do you advertise online for each county? I'm referring to national ads that are run by all the big car companies. As for individual dealerships, sure they can add the tax to the monthly payment but that won't attract as many people. Obviously it's intentional.

[vreihen16]

On my last trip to a car dealership, the salesperson went right for the 4-square. I immediately took three squares out of play, and told him straight up that my purchase depended solely on me liking the number in that one remaining box or I'd walk out. Throw them off of their shell game, get the deal that you want.....

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by TiMSport

I don't know how it works up there in Canada but whatever numbers are shown on an automaker's website related to leasing, they NEVER include sales tax or any other fees. As such, it's conceivable that numbers are off by $100 or so per month. Actual monthly numbers are often times drastically different from what is being advertised. That's how they get you in the door (and quite possibly out).

Yeah, I was accounting for all that, and pushing him to show me how at which point his numbers started going off, but he wasn't sharing.

They were just trying to gouge I think.

Alfisti - you ever use car cost canada reports or something similar to give you the dealer's "invoice" price from the manufacturer? I say that in quotes, because I don't quite trust that it is the invoice price, but nonetheless, I have found those reports to still be useful in negotiating.

[blkbtyM2C]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

The customer starts the haggle and hassle in the process the minute they ask for a discount. If everyone who searched online and called on the car they wanted just paid the online price the process would sure go a lot smoother and have no back and forth would it not? If you don't want to negotiate on a car then don't. The salesperson doesn't want to either. Pay it or just quietly go buy something somewhere else.

But really, how many of you could adjust to and accept that process? Almost none. You'd rather try to work a discount and then complain.

This is just a bad take. Buyer/Salesman, doesn't matter. The "haggle and hassle" process starts the second the dealer lists the car online. Many dealers having fees they add in addition to the online price. Many dealers completely neglecting the fact you said you came in online and telling you a different price than it's listed for.

The two questions I'm always asked are "did you see it online" and "what was it listed at". I'd love to see a car online at a fair price, walk in completely ready to buy at that price,and actually purchase it at that price. Unfortunately that will never happen.

[Alfisti]

There's a dealer here, asking $84K for a car I am interested in but it is over priced, even in this market. I called him up, said look do you have any room here mate, what can we do to make this work?

$84K.

I'm like OK. That was a month ago but clearly he still believes someone will walk in and buy it at that price. He never even threw "make an offer" at me. Keep in mind 84K is $95K with taxes

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus H, it doesn't matter where you live. Just add the bloody tax. I will never understand the argument. If the product is 10K, advertise 10K in florida and $12k in California or whatever.

Same issue happens in reverse, I have had friends from Canada come to Australia OMG IT IS SO EXPENSIVE HERE, $22 FOR A HAMBURGER. I'm like chief, what's a hamburger in Toronto, $16.99? Add 30pc for tax and tip, maybe closer to 35% idf the tipping police have their way and you're right at $22.

shit, there's several percentage points difference in taxes between the 2 chevy dealerships i live between, 15 minutes apart. It would be impossible for them to add taxes in america. Each county and/or city has their own taxes. And it doesnt matter where the car is bought, what matters is where its registered. for both of those dealerships, the taxes where those dealerships are is different than where I am by a percent or 2

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by blkbtyM2C

This is just a bad take. Buyer/Salesman, doesn't matter. The "haggle and hassle" process starts the second the dealer lists the car online. Many dealers having fees they add in addition to the online price. Many dealers completely neglecting the fact you said you came in online and telling you a different price than it's listed for.

The two questions I'm always asked are "did you see it online" and "what was it listed at". I'd love to see a car online at a fair price, walk in completely ready to buy at that price,and actually purchase it at that price. Unfortunately that will never happen.

There are some no haggle dealers around here and the one I have used before actually has competitive pricing with no BS fees when you show up.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

shit, there's several percentage points difference in taxes between the 2 chevy dealerships i live between, 15 minutes apart. It would be impossible for them to add taxes in america. Each county and/or city has their own taxes. And it doesnt matter where the car is bought, what matters is where its registered. for both of those dealerships, the taxes where those dealerships are is different than where I am by a percent or 2

It’s not impossible, plenty of e-commerce businesses are REQUIRED to calculate and collect appropriate sales tax when you checkout. Some dealers have similar features to estimate your total cost. However I think here we are use to prices not including tax so I don’t think it’s a big deal.

On the other hand adding $3k worth of total made us bs fees IS a problem.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

It’s not impossible, plenty of e-commerce businesses are REQUIRED to calculate and collect appropriate sales tax when you checkout. Some dealers have similar features to estimate your total cost. However I think here we are use to prices not including tax so I don’t think it’s a big deal.

On the other hand adding $3k worth of total made us bs fees IS a problem.

To be fair, it's more the system is broken, the power given to pissant small town government sin the usa amazes me. But thats another topic.

[Joe T]

Originally Posted by Mosaud1998

Could've been an automated email.

I'm a salesman and the majority of my customers enjoy working with me. Maybe because I'm not pushy? Idk

so I can drop dundee ford off my list for a Bronco.... $55,810 over MSRP.

when production returns to normal, some poor sucker will take an 75% hit in depreciation in just a few years

[blkbtyM2C]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

There are some no haggle dealers around here and the one I have used before actually has competitive pricing with no BS fees when you show up.

I've not encountered any good ones. Sonic Automotive Group I absolutely despise with their "live pricing". You could show them 3 exactly similar cars with the same features for $5k less and they won't budge. But let a dealership 300 miles away add a new listing for $5k over market and there goes Sonic increasing their price $3000 for "live market adjustment"

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus H, it doesn't matter where you live. Just add the bloody tax. I will never understand the argument. If the product is 10K, advertise 10K in florida and $12k in California or whatever.

Same issue happens in reverse, I have had friends from Canada come to Australia OMG IT IS SO EXPENSIVE HERE, $22 FOR A HAMBURGER. I'm like chief, what's a hamburger in Toronto, $16.99? Add 30pc for tax and tip, maybe closer to 35% idf the tipping police have their way and you're right at $22.

It's easier to exclude sales tax. For example I live in Atlanta, Ga and iirc the vehicle sales tax rate was based on the county in which the buyer lived rather than the seller. There are 3-4 BMW dealers in 3 different counties serving 20 counties known as "Metro Atlanta".

[Alfisti]

The fact counties can tax is asinine. Said it before, will say it again, my god you guys complicate the simple down there.

[cooolone2]

Most of the time, the problems in dealing with a dealership are self inflicted. People can't accept that, but it's the truth! They don't do their research on the car they want and walk into the dealer unarmed to do battle over something they want. A lot of times their expectations are unrealistic as they don't understand the process of the car sale, what it represents to the dealer, etc.

The internet today has made this transaction much more difficult as it has removed much of the wiggle room for both the seller and the purchaser. But knowing a few things still helps... But that too doesn't remove the "high" pressure sales tactics used still today. The problems begin when you allow yourself to be subject to them.

Know the sticker price of the car you want, know the sales numbers, know the mark up, know the corporate incentives kicked back to the dealer for each sale, etc. This will help your negotiating.

Now, the trade in is a big boon for the dealer as they make more $ off of a resale, than a new car sale. For example some new cars can generate as little as $500 per, whereas a resale can generate as much as a few grand!

Personally, I bought my first new car, over 30 years ago, and was totally gob smacked... And never let it happen again.

Short story, years and years ago, didn't need a car and wasn't looking but one caught my eye. Did my research and walked into the dealer for a test drive, told the SA I knew the particulars and would buy it with an honest mark up over cost (dealer)... He came out and quotes exact sticker... I told him have a nice day but go fuck someone else. They called for months trying to get me back... Lmao each time they called. Anyways...

I bought my recent BMW not really looking for one, story is in the Euro Delivery thread. But honestly, I got everything I wanted from the dealer, they also paid for my rental in Europe when they screwed the pooch in delivery there. So the BMW experience has been nothing but enjoyable so far, no complaints, none! From sales to service, everything just excellent! Maybe it's because I picked the right dealer as there are a few in the area...

Moral of all my long winded post is, you need to find what you're looking for. But the minute you compromise, you cannot complain at all. Like buying a house, don't fall in love, and be prepared to walk away - always!

Good Luck!

[Alfisti]

Anyone who's walked away from a house or an in demand used car deal in the past 5 years has now been burnt.

[Mein11]

Dodge dealership tried to charge me for Z71 package on my used Colorado. Told them to fuck off because that was paid for by the original owner, it's not like it was added on after the fact. They ultimately "took it off" because the sales guy agreed...., fucking idiots.

[LookBothWays]

Communication is difficult with the dealer I've been in contact with. With staff cutbacks I never know who I'll be talking with and more often than not it leads to misunderstandings. I've about decided to wait though if I can confirm things said by various SAs I can order and receive $1000 incentive with only 400 in fees though I've also been told MSRP plus mandatory add ons I don't care for. I've also been told by the ditz answering emails that the deposit in nonrefundable no matter what. The frustration level is more than I can tolerate most days so I'm holding out.

[________]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Jesus H, it doesn't matter where you live. Just add the bloody tax. I will never understand the argument. If the product is 10K, advertise 10K in florida and $12k in California or whatever.

Same issue happens in reverse, I have had friends from Canada come to Australia OMG IT IS SO EXPENSIVE HERE, $22 FOR A HAMBURGER. I'm like chief, what's a hamburger in Toronto, $16.99? Add 30pc for tax and tip, maybe closer to 35% idf the tipping police have their way and you're right at $22.

Alfisti, you might want to be careful with the strong opinions on things that are different in different countries/cultures.

Whenever I hear something like what you said above I usually just think "just go back to Australia then…"

Might make more sense to get better educated to understand why the difference is there etc. and embrace the new.

[upstatedoc]

I am selling cars, not buying them. Cha-ching

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

It’s not impossible, plenty of e-commerce businesses are REQUIRED to calculate and collect appropriate sales tax when you checkout. Some dealers have similar features to estimate your total cost. However I think here we are use to prices not including tax so I don’t think it’s a big deal.

On the other hand adding $3k worth of total made us bs fees IS a problem.

Thats because its calculated once you put in your shipping info.

If you were able to put in the address where you were going to register the car, then it could spit out the correct tax, but since most states collect taxes based on where the car is registered, it doesnt matter where the dealership is located.

I live on the border of 2 counties and the border of 2 cities, so my taxes always get screwed up. Theres only about 100 houses in my neighborhood that fall in the same situation and taxes always are screwy. I prefer them not to charge the tax at the dealership and would rather pay the taxes when i go to register, since every time ive bought a car at a dealership, and they include the tax, its wrong and i either over pay and its a nightmare getting that back, or i underpay and i still have to pay taxes when i register.

[Tommy-G]

If you think they are annoying to purchase a car from, you should try working along side them in the dealership

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

To be fair, it's more the system is broken, the power given to pissant small town government sin the usa amazes me. But thats another topic.

small local government can better serve their people than a big federal goverment 99/100 times. the USA was built on small government and power to the states, and Id much rather have those guys setting taxes than getting a blanket tax from the feds that have to tax based on areas like Cali and NY that have high taxes compared to middle america.