New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BMW Z4 Forum (E89) > 2009-Current Z4 Forum (E89) General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-26-2010, 08:03 AM   #1
Rubber Ducky
Lieutenant
Rubber Ducky's Avatar
46
Rep
519
Posts

Drives: 2020 M340i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cocoa Beach FL

iTrader: (1)

BMW Advanced M-School at VIR

Did the school 20, 21 Sep. Sunny, hot, dry. 12 in class, 6 instructors. No one else using the track. Cars were all just out of 1200-mile break-in - M3s had Competition Package.

Earlier writeups pretty well describe the instruction: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171594; http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=252310.

Great school! Builds confidence, skill, understanding of the unyielding nature of the physics involved. Can't wait to see the in-car videos from second day. Was especially pleased that in a ride-along with instructor Paul Mazzacaine, lunchtime Day 2, his line and footwork were exactly what I'd have aimed for.

Many YouTube videos of folks exceeding the limits at VIR. The most challenging section seems to be the Climbing Esses and Turn 10 just after. We had one guy off the track and spinning above the Esses and another in a tire wall at Hogpen (no real damage), but in general it is amazing how safe the school is and how skillfully the instructors keep it that way even though speeds get above 145 and you are constantly pushed to drive at your limit, whatever that may be for you.

Twice on second day I managed to get sporty and straighten out the Esses by blasting straight through off the track on both sides ... but no damage other than to nerves of following (well skilled) driver who had to drive through a cloud of dust and dirt blind ... and I recovered well on the track again before Turn 10. My problem was too much desire to 'finesse the Esses gracefully.' The right mentality is Bend It Like Beckham - hit the first apex spot-on and crank in ample turn to aim for the next and the next and hit them just right also. If you're late or wide, you're in trouble - one cannot just float through, you're too fast to over-steer successfully, and the track's not wide enough to let you get sideways and recover. It sure felt a lot better when I drove it right - this is the one section of track where you're either right or you're really wrong.

Logistics are easy if you stay at the Lodge. Dinners at Oak Tree Tavern (good chow), covered in the cost (Lodge is not).

Students need either previous BMW M-school at Spartanburg or equivalent track experience somewhere else.

The school has three stars: the instructors are really great; the track is magnificent (both full loop and the Patriot course); and the M-cars are wonderful (especially the M-3, everyone's favorite).

One of the students was Jackie Jouret, Editor of Bimmer Magazine (and very comfortable driving M-cars very well, though she was quick to say that she learned a lot in the school). Look for a write-up in Bimmer next Spring.

This is a good look at the whole track (starts at Hogpen):
. Note the big elevation changes, blind corners, off-camber turns, and the long straight after Oak Tree. The Climbing Esses are the first twists after going under the bridge (the Villas were built after this video).

This is the Patriot Course (universally described as 'technical') - we ran it in opposite direction:


BMWCCA members save 15% on tuition.

How would an E89 stack up? IMHO, pretty well ... with Dinan software or a chip to get the power adequate. But would anticipate three potential problems if lapping more than a few times: traction from Z4's smaller tires, brakes overheating, and engine overheating. The M-cars are a bit beefier in all 3 areas but I sense nothing inherent in my Z4 that would make it other than a sweet drive at VIR.

Save your pennies, folks: this is really worth doing.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Rubber Ducky; 09-26-2010 at 08:47 AM..
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 09:12 AM   #2
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Sounds like you had fun and learned a lot.

I have done VIR several times in my own car, always fun. I just can't go for the cost of the Advanced M School even though I know I would still learn a ton.

Bad news, the Z4 is verboten at VIR. They just don't like roadsters, even with its hardtop and its roll bars. Although the PCA club grants an exception to the Boxter.

Good comments on various turns. Correct that the climbing esses are awesome when done right, scary when done wrong. I just aimed for the next apex and got on the throttle a touch just prior to each apex.

Here is my 550i at VIR full course: http://vimeo.com/2378171 Be sure to watch the speedometer.
That's a full session. I had faded the brakes in session 2 (from following an idiot driver that didn't know when and how to brake) so my first several laps are relatively slow and easy I then decide the brakes are good and pick it up. Skip forward to 6 minutes where I catch and pass a 911 and have several clear laps at speed. I could hit 125+ on the front straight and 135 mph on the back. I then catch a really slow 911 and allow the resulting train to pass me after that. But I basically hang with several fast cars after that.

Here are a few shots of me on the climbing esses.
Attached Images
  
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 09:37 AM   #3
Rubber Ducky
Lieutenant
Rubber Ducky's Avatar
46
Rep
519
Posts

Drives: 2020 M340i
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Cocoa Beach FL

iTrader: (1)

Dead right on the climbing Esses. Throttle done right helps on the way through and can actually pick up speed into Turn 10. Braking OTOH will make a bad entry worse. Enjoy.
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 11:01 AM   #4
teagueAMX
Colonel
teagueAMX's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
2,087
Posts

Drives: Some are road worthy
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: So Cal, USA

iTrader: (0)

Looks fun.

It's interesting they won't allows cabs on the track. I've read about M3 Cab and Boxster owners complaining about the same issue at other tracks. But the PCA grants an exception the Boxster at VIR. So are convertibles safe or not at the track?
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end".-- Unknown

Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 01:02 PM   #5
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

I guess VIR is concerned with roll-overs. The PCA club explained they can take Porsche's word for the Boxter safety in a roll-over. BMWCCA won't do the same for the Z4. The BMWCCA is quite safety conscious at VIR, even threatening to limit top speed to 120mph for all cars.

The E89 should be allowed due to the retractable hard top but I can't fight that battle alone.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 03:20 PM   #6
Vintage
Colonel
Vintage's Avatar
United_States
378
Rep
2,588
Posts

Drives: BMW G80 (MT), 718 Spyder
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Austin, Texas

iTrader: (0)

that Boxster exemption is BS! Porsche bias crap
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 03:51 PM   #7
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

I guess PCA has a right to. BMW could do the same but apparently chooses not to.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 06:26 PM   #8
teagueAMX
Colonel
teagueAMX's Avatar
United_States
60
Rep
2,087
Posts

Drives: Some are road worthy
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: So Cal, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard in NC View Post
. . .to limit top speed to 120mph for all cars.
Actually, I think this is a good idea. With amateur racing, top speed should not be the issue but driving skill. It helps equalize the competition and saves money so you don't have to have as big an ante to play.
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end".-- Unknown

Appreciate 0
      09-26-2010, 07:11 PM   #9
richard in NC
Colonel
United_States
1225
Rep
2,602
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

I agree that top speed is not the point of driving schools but learning what you can get out of the car is. I can certainly tell you its a disappointment to pull out of the throttle half way down a straight, pull in behind a Miata who can't go any faster, and coast way deeper into a corner well past the brake point that you need to learn for your car.
__________________
2020 X3M non-comp, Alpine White over black : Exec Pkg, ventilated M Sport seats, 20"s
2020 M2 Comp, Sunset Orange/Blk: Orange stitching, DCT, exec pkg, bicolor rims
Gone '18 M550i, '16 X4 M40i, '15 M5, '13 X3 35i, '12 335is, '11 X5 50i, '09 Z4 35i, '08 550i, 06 X3, 06 650i, '02 M5, '99 540i
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST