BMW convertible safety record

Maruta · 05-31-2011, 06:25 PM

How safe are BMW convertibles?

My 2007 Z4 roadster was not permitted on the track at a recent BMWCCA HDPE event without an after-market roll bar. Are there solid statistics of higher incidents of death and serious injury with only BMW factory roll bars. If so, what does that have to say about BMW's design? Would hardtops also not be just that much safer with aftermarket roll cages?

Is there a real basis for this or are folks bloviating?

Frank Costanza · 06-01-2011, 01:04 AM

lol, yeah, do a search on the topic. It's a well documented situation.

arirochmann · 06-01-2011, 05:39 AM

Generally all soft top convertibles must have a race-spec roll cage for track use. The standard pop-up roll over hoops in all convertibles are a far cry from a race-spec cage.

mstevens · 06-01-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruta

My 2007 Z4 roadster was not permitted on the track at a recent BMWCCA HDPE event without an after-market roll bar.

This might be more appropriate for the e85 forum since your 2007 Z4 isn't the model this forum is for.

As far as I know, practically all driving events apply such a policy to all soft-top cars irrespective of manufacturer.

I wasn't permitted on the track with my e85 in stock form. I don't yet know about my e89.

Wiles · 06-01-2011, 07:40 PM

Its less about safety but more about the lawsuits.

BMW convertibles are as safe as any convertible. The issue of use at the track a comment on the safety guidelines set by the club. Different clubs have different rules and guidelines. BMW CCA guidelines are very strict.

Bottom line, if you want to track your Z4 you will likely not be able to participate in a BMW CCA school. You should be able to find may other clubs, or organizations which have other rules.

If you are a serious track driver, the Z4 is not ideal car anyhow. An M3 or other car with a permanent roof is a better choice.

My .02 cents

Maruta · 06-02-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Costanza

lol, yeah, do a search on the topic. It's a well documented situation.

How current is the documentation? Where is it located? Help would be appreciated.

Maruta · 06-02-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiles335i

Its less about safety but more about the lawsuits.

BMW convertibles are as safe as any convertible. The issue of use at the track a comment on the safety guidelines set by the club. Different clubs have different rules and guidelines. BMW CCA guidelines are very strict.

Bottom line, if you want to track your Z4 you will likely not be able to participate in a BMW CCA school. You should be able to find may other clubs, or organizations which have other rules.

If you are a serious track driver, the Z4 is not ideal car anyhow. An M3 or other car with a permanent roof is a better choice.

My .02 cents

Thank you for your reply. This is one of my first posts and this makes me feel welcome.

No, I am not a serious track driver. I merely wanted to get more comfortable with my car.

It is ironic that a BMW club would not let a BMW on the track. We're not talking wheel-to-wheel, here. This is "driving instruction," or so the organizers will say if an insurance company claim is filed.

I am attending NASA events which are more serious, but so far no one has turned the Z4 away from their events.

Again, thank you for responding.

Maruta · 06-02-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arirochmann

Generally all soft top convertibles must have a race-spec roll cage for track use. The standard pop-up roll over hoops in all convertibles are a far cry from a race-spec cage.

The Z4 roadster has fixed bars or hoops (is that the right terminology) not pop up.

Maruta · 06-03-2011, 12:52 PM

Seems seat belts are key.

http://www.helium.com/items/1228036-...ar-maintenance

http://www.duck2watercarinsurance.co...ble-safety.htm

epbrown · 06-05-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruta

How safe are BMW convertibles?

Are there solid statistics of higher incidents of death and serious injury with only BMW factory roll bars?

Is there a real basis for this or are folks bloviating?

As has been said before, the rollbar requirement is not about safety, but lawsuits. There have been numerous reports of Z4s rolled over and I've never heard of an injury in one, much less a fatality. There's also human nature - let someone on the track in an E85 or E89 and someone in a pre-rollbar E36 will squawk if they're not included, and sue you for letting them on the track if they hurt themselves.

Maruta · 07-28-2011, 05:42 PM

Thank you for the reply. I agree that there always will be those who want to sue.

I wrote a small post, which I will not copy here, but link to, which provides some additional insights that I hope are helpful.

http://octanechicks.com/blog/zettaby...nce-bmw-safety

The Porsche Club also has what's called the broomstick test. The driver, in helmet, has to be two inches below a (broom) stick that is placed from the roll hoops to the windshield. If this is satisfied, the test is "good."

HerrK · 07-29-2011, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruta

Thank you for your reply. This is one of my first posts and this makes me feel welcome.

No, I am not a serious track driver. I merely wanted to get more comfortable with my car.

It is ironic that a BMW club would not let a BMW on the track. We're not talking wheel-to-wheel, here. This is "driving instruction," or so the organizers will say if an insurance company claim is filed.

I am attending NASA events which are more serious, but so far no one has turned the Z4 away from their events.

Again, thank you for responding.

Most BMW local clubs have "Car Control" clinics and/or "Autocross" events which permit all BMW models.

Maruta · 07-29-2011, 11:23 AM

Yes, the autocross sounds like it could be fun. As I mentioned, above, the Porsche Club of America (PCA) is not as freaked out by factory roll bars, nor is National Auto Sports Association (NASA). What I am discovering as I get more into this, is the diversity of events and types of cars at the events.

I also have found almost to the person, that the other drivers, instructors, and event people are welcoming and supportive. My instructors have given up a day or two of weekend time to sit along side me and guide me. They have been patient and given praise well as pointed out areas where my driving that could use improvement.

Since April, I have put almost a 1000 track miles on my car.

I really like the HPDE and at the end of the day I'm "good tired."

05-31-2011, 06:25 PM	#1
Maruta New Member 3 Rep 11 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: On the road iTrader: (0)	BMW convertible safety record How safe are BMW convertibles? My 2007 Z4 roadster was not permitted on the track at a recent BMWCCA HDPE event without an after-market roll bar. Are there solid statistics of higher incidents of death and serious injury with only BMW factory roll bars. If so, what does that have to say about BMW's design? Would hardtops also not be just that much safer with aftermarket roll cages? Is there a real basis for this or are folks bloviating?
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06-01-2011, 01:04 AM	#2
Frank Costanza Private First Class 4 Rep 152 Posts Drives: 540i/6, Z4 35i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	lol, yeah, do a search on the topic. It's a well documented situation. __________________
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06-01-2011, 05:39 AM	#3
arirochmann Private First Class 3 Rep 123 Posts Drives: 2014 Ford Focus ST Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi [0.00]	Generally all soft top convertibles must have a race-spec roll cage for track use. The standard pop-up roll over hoops in all convertibles are a far cry from a race-spec cage. __________________ Current: 2014 Ford Focus ST Old: 2011 Jeep Wrangler Sport 2008 E90 335xi
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06-01-2011, 07:40 PM	#5
Wiles Private First Class 53 Rep 178 Posts Drives: Z4 3.5i MSport manual, 2020X3M Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Midwest USA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2012 BMW Z4 [0.00]	Its less about safety but more about the lawsuits. BMW convertibles are as safe as any convertible. The issue of use at the track a comment on the safety guidelines set by the club. Different clubs have different rules and guidelines. BMW CCA guidelines are very strict. Bottom line, if you want to track your Z4 you will likely not be able to participate in a BMW CCA school. You should be able to find may other clubs, or organizations which have other rules. If you are a serious track driver, the Z4 is not ideal car anyhow. An M3 or other car with a permanent roof is a better choice. My .02 cents
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06-03-2011, 12:52 PM	#9
Maruta New Member 3 Rep 11 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: On the road iTrader: (0)	Seems seat belts are key. http://www.helium.com/items/1228036-...ar-maintenance http://www.duck2watercarinsurance.co...ble-safety.htm
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07-28-2011, 05:42 PM	#11
Maruta New Member 3 Rep 11 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: On the road iTrader: (0)	Thank you for the reply Thank you for the reply. I agree that there always will be those who want to sue. I wrote a small post, which I will not copy here, but link to, which provides some additional insights that I hope are helpful. http://octanechicks.com/blog/zettaby...nce-bmw-safety The Porsche Club also has what's called the broomstick test. The driver, in helmet, has to be two inches below a (broom) stick that is placed from the roll hoops to the windshield. If this is satisfied, the test is "good." Last edited by Maruta; 07-28-2011 at 05:46 PM.. Reason: Forgot to add one thought.
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07-29-2011, 11:23 AM	#13
Maruta New Member 3 Rep 11 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: On the road iTrader: (0)	Yes, the autocross sounds like it could be fun. As I mentioned, above, the Porsche Club of America (PCA) is not as freaked out by factory roll bars, nor is National Auto Sports Association (NASA). What I am discovering as I get more into this, is the diversity of events and types of cars at the events. I also have found almost to the person, that the other drivers, instructors, and event people are welcoming and supportive. My instructors have given up a day or two of weekend time to sit along side me and guide me. They have been patient and given praise well as pointed out areas where my driving that could use improvement. Since April, I have put almost a 1000 track miles on my car. I really like the HPDE and at the end of the day I'm "good tired."
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