The RFT Saga Continues …

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

My 2 Cents on the comments from an article published by Roger Hart of Auto Week…………

Have a read of the article then let us have your 2 cents

Tom Baloga, BMW's vice president of engineering, said "the trend will continue…" talking about RFT according to Roger Hart of Auto Week.

I have news for Mr. Tom Baloga, he should watch the trend of pissed off BMW customers looking elsewhere when it comes purchasing a new car. This writer for one will change his RFT and never touch them again. Further when the time comes this writer after having driven BMW’s for the past 20 years will never again purchase another BMW if as Mr Baloga stated the trend will continue.

This is not only my view it is the view of many people out there Mr. Baloga best read some of the articles in the BMW Roundel Magazine and posts in BMW forums.

Further I cannot understand how a statement can be made that “reducing tire usage by 20 percent means the savings of millions of tires and the natural resources and energy needed to make them. Plus, you save the steel or aluminum wheels on which they are mounted”.

The overwhelming majority of people that purchase a BMW with the infamous RFT change them to conventional tires, further every RFT that has a flat or is damaged needs to be replaced with a new one. I ask you what is this statement all about in the article

“is reducing tire usage by 20 percent means the savings of millions of tires and the natural resources and energy needed to make them. Plus, you save the steel or aluminum wheels on which they are mounted”.

What about the wheels equipped with RFT are susceptible to cracks? This writer has lost 2 rear wheels to cracks after only driving 18,000 KM with a new BMW car, I ask you where is the Joy of driving? Indeed what happen to it?

I read that the RFT from Bridgestone now have out there 3rd Generation. Apparently much better then the 1st and 2nd Generation. Unfortunately the 3rd Generation is only available in Japan? I wonder when BMW customers can expect it in North America and Europe?

The 3rd Generation apparently also has better tire cooling capabilities, perhaps if I would have had the 3rd Generation RFT on my car I would have not lost 2 rear wheels due to cracks on the inside outer rim! The cracks in my wheels are not due to going thru potholes as potholes can easily be blamed. Not at all my failed wheels show no sign whatsoever of having gone thru potholes. With my limited Engineering background I come to the conclusion that going over humps and imperfections on North Americas Highways builds stresses in the soft alloy wheels and just like a paperclip the time comes when the stresses are released over one of the bumps and road imperfections and the result is a wheel crack.

I seriously question when the article makes statements such as ….
“Not only is it a safety issue” or “From a pure conservation point of view, run-flats are a green choice”.
What will be safe about it when a wheel fails at high speed and breaks up in pieces? (German Autobahns are very fast). Are we waiting for a fatal crash? How can someone say “pure conservation” with so many RFT finding there way to the recycle?

Was the original RFT not developed for Formula 1 Cars? There I can see the use of RFT as the pit crew carefully monitors the tire condition. The Formula 1 drivers are also well aware that they put there life on the line each time they get into a Formula 1 car.

Are we expected to think like a Formula 1 driver when we drive our $60,000.00 to $100,000.00 + Car?

When will BMW give his customers a choice as to what tires one can have on this fine automobile?

[cdeslandes]

The idea that RFT are used to save resources is preposterous.

Run flat tires are there to save BMW money, plain and simple. No spare, no receptacle for the spare, no jack and fewer roadside assistance calls.

There is also the space-and-weight argument. I can understand the need to save space and weight on a vehicle like a Z4, but not on a sedan...

[alan64]

rolf I was just out your way last week, and the countryside there is just beautiful. So let me understand this. Have you switched to regular tires now? If so, do they make the car look different? Is the ride really that much better?

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by alan64

rolf I was just out your way last week, and the countryside there is just beautiful. So let me understand this. Have you switched to regular tires now? If so, do they make the car look different? Is the ride really that much better?

Not yet Alan, I will in the spring. From what I read (you must have too) it is a difference like day and night.

I purchased 4 rims for the winter I will run All Season Tires on them since I don't drive in the snow, however, I like to drive short distances in the winter time when the roads are dry. Pictures of the winter wheels are in my Garage.

I will let you know how they feel once I mounted the winter wheels

PS. Yes our part of the woods is nice, we do so like it

[Rafale]

The weight saving argument is absurd on our cars. Actually the RFTs are adding more weight than a small spare tire...
My front were 27lbs now my PS2 are 22lbs
My rear were 29lbs and my current my PS2 are 23lbs. (If I believe UPS, the rear were actually 32lbs each since I had to ship them)
Total 22lbs of extra weight I got rid of. The equivalent of a small spare tire and wheel and it is all unsprung weight. Let alone the fact that my new tires have a 50% higher treadlife rating (i.e will last 50% longer) and are better summer performance tires (shorter breaking distance, better traction and cornering). Someone needs to explain to me what is greener and safer about the RFT here.
And don't get me started on pricing...

[cdeslandes]

Originally Posted by Rafale

The weight saving argument is absurd on our cars. Actually the RFTs are adding more weight than a small spare tire...
My front were 27lbs now my PS2 are 22lbs
My rear were 29lbs and my current my PS2 are 23lbs. (If I believe UPS, the rear were actually 32lbs each since I had to ship them)
Total 22lbs of extra weight I got rid of. The equivalent of a small spare tire and wheel and it is all unsprung weight. Let alone the fact that my new tires have a 50% higher treadlife rating (i.e will last 50% longer) and are better summer performance tires (shorter breaking distance, better traction and cornering). Someone needs to explain to me what is greener and safer about the RFT here.
And don't get me started on pricing...

Very good point.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Did you fellows read the comments by others after the article ... that sums it all up.

BTW place your and / or vote after you read the comments after the article.... I do hope someone from BMW Marketing reads a bit more about this subject or sales in years to come will go down hill with or without a Z4M

Bet if they make a Z4M it will have no RFT like the Big Brother M Series.

[gblansten]

I think the fact that the M3 does not have RFTs pretty much says everything I need to know.

[gblansten]

All of the flat tires in my life have been slow leaks. All I needed to do was add air and drive the car to a tire store. Not a big deal. A can of fix a flat and a compressor is my preference.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by gblansten

All of the flat tires in my life have been slow leaks. All I needed to do was add air and drive the car to a tire store. Not a big deal. A can of fix a flat and a compressor is my preference.

+1

I totally agree, I drove a 2002 M3 (19 inch wheels Michelin Performance tires BMW M3 winter tire wheel set) for 4 years never had a flat. Like you just checked air pressure regularly and maintained it. Sold her this past spring.

I like my Z4 just hate the tires.

[Silver-Bolt]

RFT's do two things. #1 they save $$ on a spare tire, wheel, jack, and lug wrench. #2 it helps in car design and packaging as they don't have to create a well/space for the spare to reside. Easier to run exhaust, additional room for fuel tank placement, etc.

My surprise is that BMW cars are world renowed as a driver's car with outstanding handling. The RFT's are killing that image. The magaine's have ripped the Z's poor ride and handling that a simple tire change completely transforms the car. The tire companies must be giving them free tires.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by Silver-Bolt

RFT's do two things. #1 they save $$ on a spare tire, wheel, jack, and lug wrench. #2 it helps in car design and packaging as they don't have to create a well/space for the spare to reside. Easier to run exhaust, additional room for fuel tank placement, etc.

My surprise is that BMW cars are world renowed as a driver's car with outstanding handling. The RFT's are killing that image. The magaine's have ripped the Z's poor ride and handling that a simple tire change completely transforms the car. The tire companies must be giving them free tires.

+1

Well said, I think some one is in some ones bed, as Memphis pointed out it's all Marketing. I've seen it before people on the top of a company only think of themselves and the now. Once they are gone the leave it to others to clean up the mess.

In my humble opinion (once a great BMW fan) it will take a long time to rebuild the BMW image, someone will have there work cut out for them.

[cdeslandes]

I'm surprised at the poor tire choices by car manufacturers of otherwise fine vehicles.

My previous car - a Lexus IS350 - was universally praised as a strong competitor to the 3-series with more luxury but a less precise handling.
Once I replaced the OEM Dunlops with GY Eagle F1s, I could keep up with any BMW short of an //M.
Why would Lexus come so close to the gold standard that the 3-series is supposed to be and throw the wrong tires on it?
For the same reason BMW chose RFT: bean counters rule.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by cdeslandes

For the same reason BMW chose RFT: bean counters rule.

+1

and political correctness.

[KrisNL]

Just wondering if the RFT's from e.g. Bridgestone are the same quality like the Michelin's?
Anyone tried both?

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by KrisNL

Just wondering if the RFT's from e.g. Bridgestone are the same quality like the Michelin's?
Anyone tried both?

For years Bridgestone has had a lock on the RFT market. Recently Michelin and Pirelli have started supplying tires to the major manufacturers including BMW. Hopefully we will see an improvement in the performance of the tires and the cars. What brand is being supplied to Chevy for the Corvette as I believe it has been using RFTs for several years?

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by KrisNL

Just wondering if the RFT's from e.g. Bridgestone are the same quality like the Michelin's?
Anyone tried both?

Funny my well versed and highly experienced BMW Service Manager (I have the highest regard for him and his expertise) tells me to mount Continental RFT when I replace my rear tires that have prematurely worn on the inside.

I wonder what he knows that he is not sharing with me ... are Continental RFT better?

Not that I ever will mount RFT again on my car

[Rafale]

What continental RFTs are available in such low profile? I have not seen any..

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Rafale

What continental RFTs are available in such low profile? I have not seen any..

Edit: Looks like they do offer them. I thought they didn't as well.

http://www.conti-online.com/generato...on_ssr_en.html

Conti offers run flats for the 18 inch stock Z4 sizes.

[Rafale]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Edit: Looks like they do offer them. I thought they didn't as well.

http://www.conti-online.com/generato...on_ssr_en.html

Conti offers run flats for the 18 inch stock Z4 sizes.

Interesting. Never saw them on the tirerack website. They are contisport contact 2 though and rated W. Was never a fan of these on non RFT.

[rmorin49]

Conti makes a fine non-RFT in an all season tire: DWS. Top rated on Tire Rack. I also like my Yokos.

[Rafale]

Originally Posted by rmorin49

Conti makes a fine non-RFT in an all season tire: DWS. Top rated on Tire Rack. I also like my Yokos.

It seems the new extreme DW and DWS are much better compromise compared to the conti sport contacts 2 or 3...