cold start prb?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Crap, this time the CEL was on for the whole trip, not as shaky and didn't stall, but it was on the whole time...arrgh, must I spend that $3K+? I've been putting off buying any addictives, maybe try that first.

I bought these 4, not sure if anyone has opinions on them and which is best:
http://gumout.com/ourProducts/FIC.asp
http://ca.prestone.com/enca/node/445
http://rislone.ca/catalog/view/50-in...reatment-34701
http://www.stp.com/products/fuel-add...ector-cleaner/

Funny thing was that my 'yellow engine light' (assume that it's CEL) was on, and then the next time I started up, it was gone. The manual states to get it checked out (I did that already) and it says the light goes on due to some emissions prb?

Not sure if I'm wasting my time buying these addictives and should just bite the bullet and get all 6 injectors replaced?

EDIT:
Another question is why don't the dealers recommend cleaning the injectors instead of replacing them? Seems overboard unless they are beyond cleaning.

[z4neb]

All those items will do something to clean the injectors. I agree with you in that dirty injectors don't need to be replaced unless they mechanically malfunction. My position of changing gas stations was about the possibility that you may have had excessive water in your fuel tank from an underground station tank that was near empty. Do can't do any harm by eliminating variables. Don't spend the 3k yet.

[tranquility]

Btw, what's the worst that could happen if I ignore this prb, only stalling, right? It won't hurt the engine if I delay the injector replacement?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Btw, what's the worst that could happen if I ignore this prb, only stalling, right? It won't hurt the engine if I delay the injector replacement?

That's such as speculative question. It is like asking 'will redlining my car all the time' hurt the engine. There's always a low probability scenario where faulty injector or redlining can cause a big damage but most of the time, it would just be stalling or hitting the fuel cut off

If I were in your shoes, I would switch the fuel, dump in the additives, and then bite bullet if still having issues

[tranquility]

Thx guys. I'll see how it goes...

[tranquility]

Used additive from Rislone, seems to be doing the job. I had no prbs cold starting even in worse cold weather conditions. I'm wondering if I should continue using that or mix it up and try the other addictives...what do you guys think? The others seem to be good for 1 use per 3,000miles or 5,000kms but this Rislone seems recommended for every tank? Does that mean Rislone is a weaker formula vs the others?

[z4neb]

That's excellent! I would use it for a few more tankfuls and then on a maintenance basis. Nothing like cleaning your injectors on occasion!

[tranquility]

The N54 is a solid engine, just parts around it tend to give out at random points.

That is the frustrating part...didn't our engines get 'engine of the year' for 3, 4 years running? I think that is such bs, if the supporting parts don't match up, then BMW shouldn't get the award. We all know the HPFP, LPFP and now the coil/injector/etc stories. They don't deserve it when many econoboxes have more reliable parts.


Besides using the addictive, I've been running the car harder, so maybe clearing up some clogging as Nick suggested. Hard to go WOT in the Toronto winter though.

[tranquility]

Happy New Year guys.

Just updating, it has been 2 months since I first had this prb, and (knock wood) those addictives really work. I'm kinda disappointed that BMW would use a sledgehammer to fix a toothpick prb (at least for me), suggesting to spend over $3K when a few bucks did the trick. Of course, for those under warranty, if BMW wants to give you new parts, why not? Still, it seems so wasteful that BMW only sees replacement as the only option whenever faced w/ fuel injector prbs, amongst other issues (e.g. RFTs getting a flat).

[z4neb]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Happy New Year guys.

Just updating, it has been 2 months since I first had this prb, and (knock wood) those addictives really work. I'm kinda disappointed that BMW would use a sledgehammer to fix a toothpick prb (at least for me), suggesting to spend over $3K when a few bucks did the trick. Of course, for those under warranty, if BMW wants to give you new parts, why not? Still, it seems so wasteful that BMW only sees replacement as the only option whenever faced w/ fuel injector prbs, amongst other issues (e.g. RFTs getting a flat).

It was a long shot but I am glad that cleaning your injectors and removing possible moisture in the tank worked. I agree with you that the dealers try major surgery first when an easier and less expensive method can be the answer. Congrats!!!!!

[tranquility]

^Thx man, you and the others here have been helpful and supportive during my mini-crisis.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Besides using the addictive, I've been running the car harder, so maybe clearing up some clogging as Nick suggested. Hard to go WOT in the Toronto winter though.

http://www.torontomotorsportspark.co...erprogram.html

My brother took me to a private track day with some of his friends last Sunday, and it was 40F and the track was mostly dry.

Just wanted to give you the heads up in case you are having a hard time finding places to hammer on your car....

[tranquility]

^Ok, thx. Looks like fun.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

^Ok, thx. Looks like fun.

I'm in TO a decent amount these days and my brother and I go pretty often.

PM me if you are interested and I will give you a heads up next time we are going. (two possibilities are Jan 18 or Feb 1)

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I'm in TO a decent amount these days and my brother and I go pretty often.

PM me if you are interested and I will give you a heads up next time we are going. (two possibilities are Jan 18 or Feb 1)

Thx for the offer, I'll see what my schedule's like.

Btw, why the heck are you up here during this time? I thought that most ppl try to get away from bad weather, not the other way around! LOL.

[tranquility]

Ok, granted the lousy weather has not been cooperating, but I've left my car out in 17C/1F weather for a few hours, got the solid yellow engine light, and now along w/ the bigger engine light (w/ the slash-thingy inside): I guess they mean emissions prb and limp mode, respectively?

This sucks, I switched from Rislone to Prestone, so I guess Prestone is ineffective. I just dumped STP into the tank and will see how it goes. Will probably start using Rislone again in conjunction. Will also try to redline/run the engine harder to see if I can dislodge any supposed clogs.

If the injectors are defective, then it shouldn't matter what the temp is, correct? This only happened again during the crazy frigid weather lately. I've noticed a humming noise too when the engine's running, and it lasts a few seconds after I turn it off: any idea what that is...? The engine sounds labored...not sure if I can do more self-testing and risk something getting damaged or try those addictives again.

If you guys have any more pointers, it would be greatly appreciated.

[teagueAMX]

When you're starting for the first time say on a really cold morning, does it seem like the battery is cranking the engine OK, i.e., very lively or just so so.?

Typically, a bad injector doesn't work intermittently.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

When you're starting for the first time say on a really cold morning, does it seem like the battery is cranking the engine OK, i.e., very lively or just so so.?

Typically, a bad injector doesn't work intermittently.

I have no prbs starting from the undergrd parking in my condo (even though it's not heated, but at least better than outside temps - I'm guessing the underground lot temp lately has been -5C/23F). However, I start having prbs when I leave my car out for a few hours in the open parking lot outside during crazy temps (like -17C/1F).

Just 2 days ago, I started the car from an outside lot and had the small CEL on, which was present for the whole trip back home. Yesterday morning, even after leaving the car in my underground lot overnight, when I started the car, it was fine but the small CEL remained. I then parked outside, and when I returned to start the car, the big CEL came on in addition w/ the small CEL.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by tranquility

If you guys have any more pointers, it would be greatly appreciated.

I think a key next step is to pull the code so you know what triggered the CEL.

It might be something unrelated like low battery voltage, or it could be the fuel injector related stuff coming back. Either way, no sense speculating....

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I think a key next step is to pull the code so you know what triggered the CEL.

It might be something unrelated like low battery voltage, or it could be the fuel injector related stuff coming back. Either way, no sense speculating....

Darn, I wish that I had a code-reader. Don't wanna go back to the dealership so soon.

EDIT: if it's a low battery issue, isn't there a light for that?

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Darn, I wish that I had a code-reader. Don't wanna go back to the dealership so soon.

EDIT: if it's a low battery issue, isn't there a light for that?

I would buy a code reader if I were you. I own one and got it from O'Reilly auto parts. Not sure what you got up there, but considering you own the car and want to avoid dealer costs. Get one that allows you to look at individual components. I cheaped out a few years ago and spent about $250 USD, but later wished I spent the extra $100 to get a little better one. The up side: once your friends find out you have it they'll want to barrow it, so charge rent.

I thinking of a couple of things.

One could be battery voltage as mentioned and why I asked about how well it cranks for you - strong or so so. Batteries are sensitive to cold temps and their voltage drops appreciably with temperature drops. It is sort of weird that a few degrees seems to be making a difference for you, but depending on the age of the battery it may be boarder line. I remember back in 2009 and some of BMW's Z4 batteries were questionable and had to be replaced by dealer within a couple 1,000 miles off the showroom floor. Turned out the factory installed the wrong batteries, but it sort of pointed to e89 being a bit sensitive to batter voltage. That's true of ALL cars these days. Keep in mind that everything is computer controlled and just about every component has some electrical aspect. Example: suspension dampers are computer controlled with an electronic module. Gone are the good old days of a purely mechanical suspension dampers.

Assuming you're starting with slightly low battery voltage, it can affect your computer, injectors, etc. An injector problem will definitely throw a code and put the car in "limp mode", meaning the car's programing likely crashed and the cars is operating at a level just adequate to "limp" home. Performance is shitty but it's better than walking.

The other thing could be an electrical connection, and with exposure to freezing moisture it is affected. These are extremely difficult to diagnose and find (i.e., repeating the fault) since by the time you get it to a mechanic the car is warmed up and the cause of the original fault no longer exists. Time causes plastic parts to become stiff and wires become less flexible.

Just some thoughts - FWIW

[tranquility]

^Thx for your thoughts/ideas Lion King.

Just tested the car again. Started it in my underground lot and it already had a rough start - bad sign because it's not as cold vs outside and it's also the 1st time it occurred inside. The big CEL came on along w/ the small CEL. Drove the car outside and it was in limp mode so I couldn't push it. The 'new' humming sound (fan?) was present since the big CEL was on and it being in limp mode: I guess that these go hand-in-hand? The car even stalled when I was at a light and I had to restart it. There were faint knocking when I stopped at the lights. I wonder if bad fuel could be a possibility? Could these be symptoms of that too? Would getting those water-remover addictives work if this theory is possible?

I'm curious about the battery theory: shouldn't it not be an issue once the car starts since the alternator takes over? I have no idea, just wondering. As I was in limp mode, I couldn't get it up to reg operating temp (usually 1 notch below the middle) and only got it up to 1/4 from the bottom. Maybe I'll havta go to the dealer to get it checked out afterall. I know that I'm at 112K km/70K miles and 3.5 years, but this prb shouldn't come up so 'soon', should it? It is quite aggravating to say the least.