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      09-16-2012, 02:56 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-e89 View Post
be interested to hear how the e89 compares to the e46 m3! :-)
Here's a comparison of the two engine's power curves side by side. The difference is between a naturally aspirated (NA) engine (no forced air induction) vs a forced air induction engine with twin turbos. Turbos engines make huge amounts of torque with little effort.

1st the e46 M3 and 2nd the e89 Z4 35i. I put the red boxes on the charts around the torque lines. IMHO, for street driving up to 120 mph+, torque is far more important than horsepower. Torque is that axle twisting, seat of the pants feeling you get when you take off from a stop light. Horsepower really comes into play around 5,000 rpm and above.

You will note the M3's engine builds torque slowly off the line and then peaks around 4,500. This engine would depend higher rpm's and horsepower even for everyday driving - just like it's younger brother with it's very peaky v8. You'll have you to keep you foot in the go peddle most of the time to get maximum enjoyment. Note reaches max horsepower just before 8,000!

The Z4 35i twin turbo engine on the other hand, has a nice flat torque profile (2nd chart red box). It reaches max torque just above idle and stays there until almost 5,000. This engine is a street engine that will take you to 120 mph+ in a hurry and then reaches maximum horsepower at 6,000 to 6,500 rpm.

So in comparison, the e46 M3 may have slight better track suspension (harder springs, etc.), but would not a really great overall daily driver + high performance car like the Z4 35i / 35is. I still want to get my hands on a ///M Coupe someday.
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 09-16-2012 at 03:19 PM..
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      09-17-2012, 02:53 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
So in comparison, the e46 M3..
One other factor depending on how you expect to use the car is the cooling system. I took my Z4 35i (2012, sport package, DCT) into the mountains on Sunday for a nice drive and it felt like the car was pulling timing. Indicated oil temps were ~270F and it was 93F outside

I thought about the extra cooling when choosing between 35is and 35i and figured to save the $ and get the 35i since the Z is my daily and not a track car but it is unfortunate how easy it is to overwhelm the stock cooling system.
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      09-17-2012, 10:50 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
One other factor depending on how you expect to use the car is the cooling system. I took my Z4 35i (2012, sport package, DCT) into the mountains on Sunday for a nice drive and it felt like the car was pulling timing. Indicated oil temps were ~270F and it was 93F outside

I thought about the extra cooling when choosing between 35is and 35i and figured to save the $ and get the 35i since the Z is my daily and not a track car but it is unfortunate how easy it is to overwhelm the stock cooling system.
270F is not normal for 93F ambient conditions. The pulling timing feeling is probably due to some other malfunctioning condition. I've never seen over 255F running in 110+F ambient. Retarded timing can also lead to the higher temps you described as well as that lost power feeling as the engine is not operating efficiently. Might be good timing for an appointment with the dealer.

There are no different parts - radiator or oil cooler for an i or is. MT vehicles get a different radiator for obvious reasons.
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Last edited by HerrK; 09-17-2012 at 11:11 PM..
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      09-18-2012, 12:06 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
One other factor depending on how you expect to use the car is the cooling system. I took my Z4 35i (2012, sport package, DCT) into the mountains on Sunday for a nice drive and it felt like the car was pulling timing. Indicated oil temps were ~270F and it was 93F outside

I thought about the extra cooling when choosing between 35is and 35i and figured to save the $ and get the 35i since the Z is my daily and not a track car but it is unfortunate how easy it is to overwhelm the stock cooling system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
270F is not normal for 93F ambient conditions. The pulling timing feeling is probably due to some other malfunctioning condition. I've never seen over 255F running in 110+F ambient. Retarded timing can also lead to the higher temps you described as well as that lost power feeling as the engine is not operating efficiently. Might be good timing for an appointment with the dealer.

There are no different parts - radiator or oil cooler for an i or is. MT vehicles get a different radiator for obvious reasons.
@nicknaz

++1 to everything HerrK said.

Not sure how hard you were pushing you Z, but 270f is too high for 93f. That not really a hot day. Could be an elevation, thinner air/altitude issue, but if I'm not mistaken, the mountains in the San Diego area are 2-3,000 thousand feet max, right? That should not present a problem.
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      09-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
@nicknaz

Not sure how hard you were pushing you Z,
~40 minutes 4000-7000rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear with lots of wide open throttle after 1hr of cruising on the freeway.

I was leaving a lot of grip mid corner and on corner entry since I didn't know the road. Definitely wasn't shy about using the full throttle when sight lines and road were clear at corner exit.

HerrK when you say:
"I've never seen over 255F running in 110+F ambient 255F running in 110+F ambient"
Are you talking HPDE use or cruising?

When it was 104F here in SD a few days ago the oil temps were 240F as per usual during normal commuting.

Oil temps only go up when I using the gas pedal a lot. Interesting the 35is doesn't have any additional cooling.

Is it the same thing with the 335is? Same cooling as 335i but just different bumper? Does the 1M have different/better cooling gear? (too bad those were sold out! )

EDIT: I kind of expected this higher oil temps situation when I got the car given what happens in the 135/335 commuities when those cars are driven hard, guess we'll see what happens when I get around to going to a driving school in this car.
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      09-19-2012, 07:49 AM   #138
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[quote=nicknaz;12701673HerrK when you say:
"I've never seen over 255F running in 110+F ambient 255F running in 110+F ambient"
Are you talking HPDE use or cruising?[/quote]

Now that you've clearifed that a nice drive = HPDE = running at 4-7k revs for 40 minutes straight = high oil temp. Then everything is likely normal for your "nice drive". I'm hope you stay between the lines on your street HPDE - I hate it when cars cross the DY on the back country roads especially when I'm on my MC. I save my HPDE for Autocross or trackdays and yes the oil temps rise.

I don't particularly care to investigate the various 135/335 configurations those cars have two too many extra seats for my liking. I'll leave those for you to investigate. You can figure it all out here http://www.realoem.com

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      09-19-2012, 01:28 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
I'm hope you stay between the lines on your street HPDE - I hate it when cars cross the DY on the back country roads especially when I'm on my MC.
I've laid an MC down from car driver's irresponsible street driving so I know where you are coming from.

Don't worry, I am not out there trying to re-create scenes from the Initial D cartoon.

Thanks for the link.

EDIT: I checked out that realoem site and the 1M and 335is have an additional radiator in front of the driver side wheel and an 850W radiator fan (vs. 600W for 335/135/z435i/z435is). Definitely more cooling 1M and 335is.

The oil cooler part number is different for the Z4 than the other cars, but it isn't clear whether there is a surface area or other difference.

Last edited by nicknaz; 09-19-2012 at 03:54 PM..
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      08-23-2013, 07:25 AM   #140
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Arrow Z4 M35i still on the way?

Z4 LCI did not bring the Z4 M35i - is it still on the way?
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      08-23-2013, 07:36 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duoporta View Post
Z4 LCI did not bring the Z4 M35i - is it still on the way?
No, there 2-3 more years of e89 cycle to go. I am sure we will start seeing test mules of next gen Z4 sometime next year.
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      08-23-2013, 09:36 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duoporta View Post
Z4 LCI did not bring the Z4 M35i - is it still on the way?
Z4 35is is as fast/performance oriented you're going to get from BMW this generation. Most believe this is due to one or more of the following:

The chassis is just not capable of delivering the handling characteristics that would be expected out of a M car. Releasing a M Z4 that didn't live up to the badge would damage the brand.

A E89 M car would be faster than the M3. the 35is is already by many accounts faster to 60 than the M3. What would it do to the perception of the M3 if a MZ4 smoked it in a straight line?

Lack of sales potential. BMW sells fewer than 20k (15k in 2012) Z4 cars every year. Of those, I've read fewer than 10% are 35is models. That means the potential for an M Z4 is likely around 1.5K cars a year or less. Compare that with the 5K+ M3 cars sold every year and you can see why a business case may be difficult to make.

My bet is we'll start hearing about a "next gen" MZ4 in couple years. It will be built on a new roadster chassis that is more "sporty" and will magically be not quite as quick as the new M3/M4.
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      08-23-2013, 06:24 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VailM3 View Post
No, there 2-3 more years of e89 cycle to go. I am sure we will start seeing test mules of next gen Z4 sometime next year.
Right now they are building 2014s, then we'll probably still have the 2015 e89s. Then the new generation will probably be the 2016s, released in mid to late 2015.
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      08-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcysco View Post
The chassis is just not capable of delivering the handling characteristics that would be expected out of a M car. Releasing a M Z4 that didn't live up to the badge would damage the brand.
And how are all the M SUVs or even the M3/6 convertibles not damaging the brand? I think all BMW M cares about is making money, and that is why they did not make a Z4 M.

I mean of course the Z4s chassis is capable of delivering within what it is (in the same way an SUV M is), why would it not be? AFAIK it is stiffer than the old Z4 M roadster and it already has the adaptive suspension as an option. Please tell me how the E93 chassis is so much better? And if they can add M3 brakes and suspension to the old Z4, or even a 1-series, why wouldn't they be able to do the same to the E89.

I believe a Z4 M would have been a great boost to the BMW brand, much bigger so than any M SUV. A flagship roadster emits a lot of what is essential to the BMW brand (of yesterday perhaps).

The reason they didn't make it (so far) is because the business case looks too bad.
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      08-23-2013, 07:11 PM   #145
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There is also speculation that the next Z4 will be built using the same platform as the Supra as part of the BMW/Toyota collaboration
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      08-24-2013, 12:07 PM   #146
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Z4 M35i still on the way?

Z4 M35i still on the way?
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      08-25-2013, 03:16 AM   #147
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Of the estimated 1,500 35is cars made a year,any estimate as to how many are sold in the US?
Thanks
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      01-01-2016, 08:46 AM   #148
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Please excuse me for reviving this old thread. Are folks still hopeful that BMW will make a new Z4M coupe? Or has the dream died?
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      01-01-2016, 01:37 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Please excuse me for reviving this old thread. Are folks still hopeful that BMW will make a new Z4M coupe? Or has the dream died?
There is ZERO chance of e89....and please love of god this thread is 16 months old.
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      01-06-2016, 09:26 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VailM3 View Post
There is ZERO chance of e89....and please love of god this thread is 16 months old.
Oh goodness, I'm so sorry! I hope I did not ruin your new year!
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