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      07-18-2015, 12:03 PM   #1
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Z4M vs M3/M4

Sup guys. I owned a 2011 Z4... loved it but performance just wasn't up to par. So I ditched it for an E92... now I have a F83 M4. I loved the Z4 but my biggest problem since the beginning of time with BMW is that they don't put their M division to ramp up the BMW 2 seater department. The closest race performance is the Z4M coupe.. but it just doesn't look supercar like. Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, Nissan... almost every carmaker has a super 2 seater. Cayman GTR, R8, AMG GT, etc... BMW comes out with the I8... but there is nothing below it.

Just want to get that off my chest. Don't understand why they don't make a Z4M Roadster flared out mean 2 seater that'll go for 80K to compete with the cayman/boxster division.
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      07-18-2015, 01:57 PM   #2
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I could not agree more, but things at BMW are not quite what they use to be as they are now producing front wheel drive cars. It is all about becoming the next VW/Audi as they pursue sales and profits, which I do not begrudge them in the least. As long as they make cars like the M3 and upcoming M2, I guess I will get over it.
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      07-18-2015, 03:57 PM   #3
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Feel the same way. Glad I got out of the Z4 and never looked back.

She was a sexy looking beast though...gotta give her that.
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      07-19-2015, 12:02 AM   #4
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If you had a Z4 with the N54 motor, you could spend a bit more money and destroy an M3/M4. I put down 448whp with just bolt ons.

Single turbo or hybrid twins put you in the 600-800whp range. The N54 platform is a beast...
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      07-19-2015, 02:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttuner View Post
If you had a Z4 with the N54 motor, you could spend a bit more money and destroy an M3/M4. I put down 448whp with just bolt ons.

Single turbo or hybrid twins put you in the 600-800whp range. The N54 platform is a beast...
oh right on! It can be done modded, but I just wanted the extra flared out body and fenders that distinguish the M from the rest... that's all. I think the Z4 is one hella design... it just needs that "mean" M to it.
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      07-19-2015, 05:52 PM   #6
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I agree with your sentiments. BMW needs a two-seat M sports car in its lineup at all times. It should be a no brainer. That said, I think you have two real options:

1) Do a rear-seat delete and roll cage in an E92 M3 or F82 M4

2) Put a wide-body kit on a modded E89 Z4
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      07-19-2015, 06:12 PM   #7
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If BMW turned M loose on the Z4, I would sell my 2010 now and buy the M tomorrow.
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      07-19-2015, 07:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage View Post
If BMW turned M loose on the Z4, I would sell my 2010 now and buy the M tomorrow.
That would have been great!

I hate to say it, but BMW was right in their assessment about Z enthusiasts. If you look at the forum only a handful of guys are really invested TRUE M performance. There are cup holder threads thats are multiple pages deep while performance threads of a few posts. Its sad.
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      07-19-2015, 07:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1981 View Post
That would have been great!

I hate to say it, but BMW was right in their assessment about Z enthusiasts. If you look at the forum only a handful of guys are really invested TRUE M performance. There are cup holder threads thats are multiple pages deep while performance threads of a few posts. Its sad.
yeah. most performance minded folks are over on n54tech or [Admin Notified]
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      07-20-2015, 10:55 AM   #10
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When too many people complaint about Z4M being too bumpy.

BMW responded with E89 and all those complaint went away they probably told the M guys to not bother with it.
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      07-20-2015, 11:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttuner View Post
If you had a Z4 with the N54 motor, you could spend a bit more money and destroy an M3/M4. I put down 448whp with just bolt ons.

Single turbo or hybrid twins put you in the 600-800whp range. The N54 platform is a beast...
If "destroy" is dyno numbers or 1 highway pull or a fast 1/4 mile time slip, i agree with you n54.

If you need to track the car in the CA desert, you cant underestimate the supporting parts of f8x like cooling systems, brakes, suspension and rear diff

By the way OP, scott (bmw employee) on another thread claimed many internal ppl at bmw wanted e89 z4m with v8 but could not push the biz case through.

Be honest guys, if z4m cost same as gt4 or base 991, would you get z4?

I think (unfortunately) bmw had it right...
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      07-21-2015, 08:04 AM   #12
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The V8 would have been nice, but after seeing the new M3/M4 with superior cooling and more power potential is very enticing.

After having a fbo N54 with Wedge tune going to a low torque motor isn't as full filing. It feels a bit, dare I say slow.

If only we had the other M bits for the twisties...
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      07-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
...Be honest guys, if z4m cost same as gt4 or base 991, would you get z4?...
Hmmm great question. I do like the power of the V8 though so this would make me think a bit more.
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      07-21-2015, 03:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
If "destroy" is dyno numbers or 1 highway pull or a fast 1/4 mile time slip, i agree with you n54.

If you need to track the car in the CA desert, you cant underestimate the supporting parts of f8x like cooling systems, brakes, suspension and rear diff

By the way OP, scott (bmw employee) on another thread claimed many internal ppl at bmw wanted e89 z4m with v8 but could not push the biz case through.

Be honest guys, if z4m cost same as gt4 or base 991, would you get z4?

I think (unfortunately) bmw had it right...
This is not a fair comparison. Porsche MSRPs are deceptive. As soon as you start optioning the car, the price starts to skyrocket. An $85k GT4 climbs up to six figures with simple options.

If the F8x M3 has an MSRP around $70k, I would imagine a well optioned E89 Z4M Coupe could have been brought to market with an S65 and E9x M3 suspension/brakes/diff for $65-70k. Well optioned, you'd be looking at $75-80k. Tack on, say, another $5k for the convertible version.

It would have weighed ~3400 lbs. (in coupe form), been a true mid-engined car, would have offered the option of a 6MT or true M-DCT, and would have looked absolutely bananas. Carbon roof, high-revving V8, and mid-engine design? I would choose that all day long over a base 991. GT4 would be a tougher call, but also more $$$ (assuming one could even be found).

Some skillful aftermarket additions could have gotten it down to around 3200 lbs. and ~500 bhp with on-point handling and healthy brakes. At that point, the car would be approaching 997.2 GT3 status, but could be had for less than $100k total.

Last edited by Hujan; 07-21-2015 at 03:55 PM..
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      07-21-2015, 06:48 PM   #15
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Hujan, you are absolutely right, Porsche options are nuts and bare bones F8X or hypothetical Z4M would have been in the $60k range while bare bones GT4 is mid $80ks

Pretty meaningful gap and not a fair comparison

The car you mentioned at the end of your post is interesting. Potentially a bit more capable than GT4 and presumably with more options, and similar price to base GT4.

I'd probably pick the stripped GT4 but could see the merit in going the other way.

By the way, I did find a GT4 allocation in Virginia but backed out of it. I asked myself if I could honestly track a $90k car (bucket seats only option) at 10/10th of my ability, and answer was obviously NO because I am still quite nervous when I am DSC OFF in my F8x...

As luck would have it, my brother got an allocation for an October delivery so if he lets me track it I'll report back....
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      07-22-2015, 07:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
...
By the way OP, scott (bmw employee) on another thread claimed many internal ppl at bmw wanted e89 z4m with v8 but could not push the biz case through.

...
Based on the number of Z4s of any kind - let alone E89s - I see on a regular basis I totally get that. When I bought an E30, I started seeing them everywhere. When I bought an E46 I felt like I was getting lost in the crowd. When I bought my E89... I feel like I'm driving a twin turbo unicorn.

Just looked up sales figures and they pretty well back up the feeling. In April of 2015, BMW NA sold 26,952 cars and SAVs. Only 87 of those were Z4s. For the entire year preceding April 2015, BMW sold 105,444 vehicles, of which only 889 were Z4s. Less than 1% of BMW's sales were accounted for by the Z4. At this point I think we're lucky they still sell it at all, let alone in an M model which considering that the Z4 has sold so poorly in a manual that you can't even get one anymore would probably sell in the single digits...
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      07-24-2015, 02:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Hujan, you are absolutely right, Porsche options are nuts and bare bones F8X or hypothetical Z4M would have been in the $60k range while bare bones GT4 is mid $80ks

Pretty meaningful gap and not a fair comparison

The car you mentioned at the end of your post is interesting. Potentially a bit more capable than GT4 and presumably with more options, and similar price to base GT4.

I'd probably pick the stripped GT4 but could see the merit in going the other way.

By the way, I did find a GT4 allocation in Virginia but backed out of it. I asked myself if I could honestly track a $90k car (bucket seats only option) at 10/10th of my ability, and answer was obviously NO because I am still quite nervous when I am DSC OFF in my F8x...

As luck would have it, my brother got an allocation for an October delivery so if he lets me track it I'll report back....
Yeah, I would have to flip a coin between the mythical modded E89 Z4M in my post and a stripper GT4. I'd probably go the GT4, too, if only because it is likely to appreciate in value like the 1M.

I think a GT4 and an F80 M3 would be an amazing two-car combo. I dunno if I would have been able to say no to that, honestly. Like you, the only option for me would have been the seats. (Maybe PDC, too.) Tell your brother to jump on that thing for our collective sakes!
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      07-24-2015, 03:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Yeah, I would have to flip a coin between the mythical modded E89 Z4M in my post and a stripper GT4. I'd probably go the GT4, too, if only because it is likely to appreciate in value like the 1M.

I think a GT4 and an F80 M3 would be an amazing two-car combo. I dunno if I would have been able to say no to that, honestly. Like you, the only option for me would have been the seats. (Maybe PDC, too.) Tell your brother to jump on that thing for our collective sakes!
Preaching to the choir!

Shoot, I did not know you were in the market for the GT4. I should have passed the lead for the allocation to you when I passed. Sorry man....

Back to somewhat on topic... has there been any documented case of road car E89 with the S65 V8 swapped in ?
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      07-26-2015, 10:51 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
If "destroy" is dyno numbers or 1 highway pull or a fast 1/4 mile time slip, i agree with you n54.

If you need to track the car in the CA desert, you cant underestimate the supporting parts of f8x like cooling systems, brakes, suspension and rear diff

By the way OP, scott (bmw employee) on another thread claimed many internal ppl at bmw wanted e89 z4m with v8 but could not push the biz case through.

Be honest guys, if z4m cost same as gt4 or base 991, would you get z4?

I think (unfortunately) bmw had it right...
If they super flared it out, put a tall wing, put air vents on the sides... basically turning it into the 1989 3 series to the 1989 M3 or the Porsche 1996 911 into the 1996 Turbo!!! I would for sure consider it.

something like this but cleaner
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      07-27-2015, 11:45 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilzmantis View Post
If they super flared it out, put a tall wing, put air vents on the sides... basically turning it into the 1989 3 series to the 1989 M3 or the Porsche 1996 911 into the 1996 Turbo!!! I would for sure consider it.

something like this but cleaner
It is such a tease they put out that car but not an E89 Z4M
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