Z4 35i or 435i?

[markmatthews]

I don't feel like working so here I am. I apologize in advance for the wall of text below.

I have been having this debate for a few days now. It is going to be a daily driver between me and the other half. I know the 435i isn't out yet but I assume it will perform better than the 335i given its lower weight, wider track, and lower center of gravity (allegedly the lowest CG of any BMW currently)

We drove a DCT Z4 35i with Msport and a 6spd manual Z4 35i (my GF's past cars were all manual, but manual Z4s are basically impossible to find). We loved the low center of gravity of the Z4 as it was much sportier than all the 335i variants we've driven over the years. I understand we need to drive the 435i but since it's not all over the dealers yet I figured I'd start this thread for fun.

Z4

Pros

• Likely more fun to drive
• DCT
• More rare (Unfortunately 4 coupes will be EVERYWHERE by this time next year in socal)
• Top down? We took the top off of the Vette once, and it was when purchasing the car to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. It would be cool to drive topless in the Z4 once we have intake and exhaust though

Cons

• Lack of space (not really a big deal)
• Chick car? We could care less what others think

435i

Pros

• More space with likely very similar performance
• Newer car with newer tech and the design will be here for a while
• Cheaper MSRP by almost $10,000, though if we run into a Z4 at the right time this advantage could be almost nullified. Z4s are one of the slowest selling cars in the country. Looking to get into either car around fall/winter for best pricing, and the 435i will likely still be marked up due to new car factor.
• N55 seems to be better than the N54 in stock form in terms of its mid-range power, but it looks like with a tune (which we will definitely get) the N54 responds better

Cons

• Not much I can think of except its body style (4 coupe) will be all over the streets. A minor annoyance I suppose.
• Once we start seeing M4s all over socal we might have a huge itch to upgrade. At least with the Z4 the 35is isn't that big of a performance upgrade and the exterior is basically the same.

To me the main advantage for the 435i is that it has more space than a Z4 and can probably perform just as well even on the track. I believe in stock form in a straightline it's a driver's race between the regular 335i and a z4 35i, though a DCT Z4 should be the quickest. The Z4 is way more fun in the twisties but we need to drive a 435i to draw a conclusion here.

I know the 335is was slower by a bit over 3 seconds than the z4 35is on VIR by Car & Driver, so with my ricer math, maybe the 435i with its (hopefully) improved performance will be pretty close to a regular Z4 35i?

Track numbers aren't too important to us, it's just one more facet to this internal debate.

Overall this looks like a logical (435i) vs. emotional (z4) buying decision.

I know this is a Z4 forum but I will rely on the non-biased members' opinions I will also post this on the 4-series section to get their thoughts.

I know, first world problems.

[jparnes1]

Dude, you're making my head hurt.

[supLOL]

The dealers are going to charge a bitchin' premium on the 435i while you can get crazy good deals on Z4s because dealers have such a hard time moving them. So they shouldn't be too different in cost at the end of the day. If you're going to tune, then DEFINITELY the Z4, because that N54 just has SO much out there you can work with to get it going. It's definitely going to be rarer than the 435i and better looking, in my extremely biased opinion. If you buy the Z4 35i and put, what, 5K into it, it can be at or above M3 level. (Assuming that 5K is spent wisely.) I think you're over-thinking this. Buy the one that you can look at in 2-3 years and say "Damn. No regrets.".

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Dude, you're making my head hurt.

sorry i tried to lay out all the info in a clear format but it's still a lot to take in. that post took me almost 30 minutes to compose, and it beats the hell out of working

Originally Posted by supLOL

The dealers are going to charge a bitchin' premium on the 435i while you can get crazy good deals on Z4s because dealers have such a hard time moving them. So they shouldn't be too different in cost at the end of the day.

yep that's what I figured. tough decision for me.

[supLOL]

I added a bit more to my post, check it out

Also, it's funny that you choose now to buy! The 435i is just being born while we fear the Z4 is close to extinction! Haha

[tranquility]

What are the tranny options for the 4? Off the top being biased and not liking bigger cars, I'd choose the Z.

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by supLOL

I added a bit more to my post, check it out

Also, it's funny that you choose now to buy! The 435i is just being born while we fear the Z4 is close to extinction! Haha

Thanks, yeah it seems the N54 is definitely a better candidate for tuning, which is important

Yeah talk about poor timing...our G37 lease comes up in September and we can either turn it in now (we only have about half the allowed miles) or in September when it matures to get into the next car. I'm pretty sure by fall/winter there will be plenty of 2014 Z4s sitting on dealers' lots that we can probably score a pretty good deal. We might even get lucky and run into a manual tranny one.

The Z4 is close to extinction? That's news to me...is 2014 the last model year?

Originally Posted by tranquility

What are the tranny options for the 4? Off the top being biased and not liking bigger cars, I'd choose the Z.

8 speed auto or manual. I'd definitely get a manual 435i as after driving a few DCT cars the normal auto just won't cut it.

[supLOL]

No, as of now, there's no concrete evidence that the Z4 is being dropped, but all signs seem to point that way. Most people think that BMW is going to make a smaller, more affordable roadster, such as the Z2. Personally, I think it looks like the Z4 has 2-3 years left. If that.

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by supLOL

No, as of now, there's no concrete evidence that the Z4 is being dropped, but all signs seem to point that way. Most people think that BMW is going to make a smaller, more affordable roadster, such as the Z2. Personally, I think it looks like the Z4 has 2-3 years left. If that.

I don't really mind it being discontinued, it'll make the car even more rare

[nicknaz]

Hey Mark, my wife has an F30 335 and I have an E89 35i. Probably the closest thing right now to 435 vs. Z435

Long story story is that I think the F30 335 is the better car.

Cheaper to have/fuel/insure, better tech, similar straight line and handling when stock. (in the corners Z feels better because its lower but unclear if its actually achieving more mid corner speed)

EDIT: the 8 speed sport automatic is a very good gearbox that is a good approximation of a DCT. You should try it before writing it off.

Regardless of all that, Z435 is the car I WANT because I've always wanted a 2 seat sporty car (and I couldn't afford a Porsche... )

I can forgive how easy it is to get too hot when driving hard, the lower fuel econ and the worse in-cabin tech because it is so much fun to drive around with the roof down. +30% power from a chip (if you are into that) because it is N54 (as opposed to +8% from N55) really adds to the fun factor

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Hey Mark, my wife has an F30 335 and I have an E89 35i. Probably the closest thing right now to 435 vs. Z435

Long story story is that I think the F30 335 is the better car.

Cheaper to have/fuel/insure, better tech, similar straight line and handling when stock. (in the corners Z feels better because its lower but unclear if its actually achieving more mid corner speed)

EDIT: the 8 speed sport automatic is a very good gearbox that is a good approximation of a DCT. You should try it before writing it off.

Regardless of all that, Z435 is the car I WANT because I've always wanted a 2 seat sporty car (and I couldn't afford a Porsche... )

I can forgive how easy it is to get too hot when driving hard, the lower fuel econ and the worse in-cabin tech because it is so much fun to drive around with the roof down. +30% power from a chip (if you are into that) because it is N54 (as opposed to +8% from N55) really adds to the fun factor

Hey Nick, thanks for the valuable insight as usual. You reminded of a good point - the 435i will get significantly better MPG.

N55s only achieve an 8% power increase when tuned? I didn't know it was that much lower than the N54, wow.

I definitely plan on tuning whichever car I end up with, so the delta post tune is important. This decision is becoming harder lol.

Edit: Nick, you also mentioned the Z4 getting too hot; have you ever driven your wife's F30 in anger? Does it have better cooling than the Z4?

[PopsnBurbles]

Z4 all the way!

1. I think the Z4 looks much better!
2. you have the option to take the top down or keep the top up. Either way, it looks really good! (I prefer top down)
3. it definitely isn't a chick car. Once you're behind the wheel, it definitely doesn't reduce masculinity.
4. N54...
5. have I said you can put the top down + turn off the radio + listen to the exhaust sound?
6. Depending on the color, it's a major head turner! (Anything but black or white)

Driving a Z4 daily, there are a few tiny issues...
1. It sits waaaay too low + the nose is too long. With a passenger (+ driver), it grazes every drive way.
2. If you're used to driving 1er and 3er sized cars, it's pretty wide. But you'll get used to this.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by markmatthews

I don't really mind it being discontinued, it'll make the car even more rare

BMW usually runs models on 7 year lifespans, so 2015 may be it.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by markmatthews

Hey Nick, thanks for the valuable insight as usual. You reminded of a good point - the 435i will get significantly better MPG.

N55s only achieve an 8% power increase when tuned? I didn't know it was that much lower than the N54, wow.

I definitely plan on tuning whichever car I end up with, so the delta post tune is important. This decision is becoming harder lol.

Edit: Nick, you also mentioned the Z4 getting too hot; have you ever driven your wife's F30 in anger? Does it have better cooling than the Z4?

Check out the Cobb website for their gains n55 vs n54 and look for some dyno plots to check it out yourself. If you want the chipped car I think the n55 just doesn't respond as well (due to single turbo?). My speculation is its single turbo so a bit less heat so 335 should do better. Brakes definitely better on the 3.

Mpg right now is 26 mpg vs 20mpg in favor of the 335. We get indicated 40mpg doing 70mph cruise. It's a great car for a stock commuter.

M sport line f30 has better cooling parts for sure. We have the 335 sport line that has similar parts as the z. I haven't tracked or done a long canyon run in it so not sure. I speculate single turbo should make less heat so will take longer to get the 335 too hot

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by markmatthews

I don't really mind it being discontinued, it'll make the car even more rare

Yep, you are going to have a rare and extinct car!

[nicknaz]

Btw, if you live in Cali and plan to chip n54. Plan to use a 100 octane mix.

Apparently CA91 is extra bad and Cobb has a CA specific 91 map that only does 8% gain for the n54, as opposed to 26% for regular 91 map. People have run the regular 91 map in CA but their logs seem to always show deto so mixing higher octane is needed.

A bit of a PITA...

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by 328pride

Z4 all the way!

1. I think the Z4 looks much better!
2. you have the option to take the top down or keep the top up. Either way, it looks really good! (I prefer top down)
3. it definitely isn't a chick car. Once you're behind the wheel, it definitely doesn't reduce masculinity.
4. N54...
5. have I said you can put the top down + turn off the radio + listen to the exhaust sound?
6. Depending on the color, it's a major head turner! (Anything but black or white)

Driving a Z4 daily, there are a few tiny issues...
1. It sits waaaay too low + the nose is too long. With a passenger (+ driver), it grazes every drive way.
2. If you're used to driving 1er and 3er sized cars, it's pretty wide. But you'll get used to this.

Top down with an intake/exhaust Z4 sounds like fun times.

I currently daily a Vette so am no stranger to long-nosed wide cars

Originally Posted by jparnes1

BMW usually runs models on 7 year lifespans, so 2015 may be it.

Thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by CeEl

Yep, you are going to have a rare and extinct car!

lol

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Check out the Cobb website for their gains n55 vs n54 and look for some dyno plots to check it out yourself. If you want the chipped car I think the n55 just doesn't respond as well (due to single turbo?). My speculation is its single turbo so a bit less heat so 335 should do better. Brakes definitely better on the 3.

Mpg right now is 26 mpg vs 20mpg in favor of the 335. We get indicated 40mpg doing 70mph cruise. It's a great car for a stock commuter.

M sport line f30 has better cooling parts for sure. We have the 335 sport line that has similar parts as the z. I haven't tracked or done a long canyon run in it so not sure. I speculate single turbo should make less heat so will take longer to get the 335 too hot

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Btw, if you live in Cali and plan to chip n54. Plan to use a 100 octane mix.

Apparently CA91 is extra bad and Cobb has a CA specific 91 map that only does 8% gain for the n54, as opposed to 26% for regular 91 map. People have run the regular 91 map in CA but their logs seem to always show deto so mixing higher octane is needed.

A bit of a PITA...

Thanks, I studied Cobb's site as well as a few more threads on different forums after reading your post yesterday. It sounds like the Z4 is the winner as the tiny turbo in the N55 just doesn't provide as much low-end response or top end pull. You can only throw so much boost at such a tiny snail.

Re 100 oct that's quite a pain. I used to have an Evo so am no stranger to the 91 piss we get here in California Luckily I live right next to a gas station that supplies E85 so I might just run E85 full time. not sure how well the DCT can handle it though as I've read that the clutches are slipping with a pump gas tune. Wish there were more 6MT Z4s around...ordering one is just not worth it as I can get a fully loaded and discounted 2013 for the same price.

[supLOL]

Good choice! And good luck with your search, my friend!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by markmatthews

Re 100 oct that's quite a pain. I used to have an Evo so am no stranger to the 91 piss we get here in California Luckily I live right next to a gas station that supplies E85 so I might just run E85 full time. not sure how well the DCT can handle it though as I've read that the clutches are slipping with a pump gas tune. Wish there were more 6MT Z4s around...ordering one is just not worth it as I can get a fully loaded and discounted 2013 for the same price.

Doesn't E85 full time result in issues with the fuel system (i.e. lines cracking)?

What are you looking to do? Seems like "stage 1" (chip tune only) is ok but the complaints about slip started with "stage 2+fmic" (full bolt ons + fmic).

It is also hard to tell because, slip due to overheat from repeated launch is a lot different than slip because there is just too much torque for the clutch (my sense is that it is the former that is the issue?)

Aside..I'm surprised you are interested in the E89 coming from a C6 Z51. It is going to be $$$ to try and get back to that performance level and you use some key things like dry sump oil and LSD.

[markmatthews]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Doesn't E85 full time result in issues with the fuel system (i.e. lines cracking)?

What are you looking to do? Seems like "stage 1" (chip tune only) is ok but the complaints about slip started with "stage 2+fmic" (full bolt ons + fmic).

It is also hard to tell because, slip due to overheat from repeated launch is a lot different than slip because there is just too much torque for the clutch (my sense is that it is the former that is the issue?)

Aside..I'm surprised you are interested in the E89 coming from a C6 Z51. It is going to be $$$ to try and get back to that performance level and you use some key things like dry sump oil and LSD.

From my reading on the E85 topic it seems only a few have cracked fuel lines, then again not too many run full E85 full time. I will need to read a bit more for sure.

Yeah it seems like the clutch slippage was with more bolt-ons on top of a tune. That's good news. I think I ran into a thread that mentioned the torque threshold on the DCT unit in the Z4, I'll look for it again and see if I can find it.

I won't be launching the Z4, if at all. I don't like to abuse my cars and launching a car puts a ton of stress on its drivetrain components. I'll be happy rolling into the throttle on the freeway and taking the car through mountain roads

The Z4 will satisfy my craving for a turbocharged car's noise and power delivery, in a convertible body. My first 10 years of driving consisted of turbo/awd cars (and I've only launched one of them once)

[nicknaz]

Cobb only on a dct 35i will chirp the 1-2 shift all day when you are in sport+ and manual mode. Hard not to feel like you are hammering it

[CeEl]

Rumor has it, BMW will have the 4 in a convertible M version in about 1year... Not sure if hardtop or not.