N54 HPFP/Turbo - Lawyers in Love

[persian54]

gas here sucks

N54 HPFP is a problem... but at least in CA it makes it easy to lemon

[Vintage]

I live in Texas and have spoken to two dealers in the area. I only run Shell V Power or Chevron Supreme through the car (both are 93 octane).

[Vel]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

I assume that as a died in the wool skeptic that you've been following threads on this forum and particularly on the 3 series side of Bimmerpost concerning the HPFP issue. If so you would already know this issue is real and not speculation or rumor without the need to challenge our members here and make impolite remarks. I know first hand based on review of official recorded pdf copies of the court docs that at least one suit filed on this issue by an individual. I read about another not to mention the one discussed here. I'm assuming at this point a couple of the suits are being rolled up into a class action suit.

A fair amount skepticism is healthy, but I don't need to advertise about my BS detector batteries in my "sig", and BTW, my BS detector doesn't require batteries - it genetic.

Yes, I know about the problems; just because a car has a problem doesn't mean that a suit is in the works and it doesn't mean that it's a class action, which need to be certified in and of them themselves. If the suit is real, nothing I asked for is out of the ordinary.

I have a very difficult time believing someone when they post "Hey, you could get in on a big lawsuit if you send an email to this firm!" - I need more than that to believe it. You'd be surprised how many lawyers post on anonymous forums trying to drum up clients for a suit.

Originally Posted by HerrK

The forum that I brought this over from is as follows.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...78#post5529678

As to your other inquires I believe you will find most of those answers here.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/BMW-la...web4615794.htm

I am not a lawyer. I have no interest at the moment in this particular class action, as my N54 is currently operating properly. Just posting for those who wish to investigate further.

Much appreciated. Here's hoping a kick in the ass from a jury will get them to fix things

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by Alext

Note that the new N55 twinscroll engines (designed to replace the N54) also use the same HPFP with the same part#. Some have failed already too.

Very disturbing. Sure glad I have the dependable non-turbo engine. For my purposes, it is a perfect car.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

I live in Texas and have spoken to two dealers in the area. I only run Shell V Power or Chevron Supreme through the car (both are 93 octane).

Interesting thread here ...... CLICK TO OPEN

[siscobmw]

in Italy every owner reading/writing in bmwpassion forum stated this, about the N54:
1) Vishnu Tuning Systems who sells Procede is made of a pile of unkind stupids, at least those working for export, it seems that no one receive a good service here;
2) the best tuning/piggyback foir the N54 è il Juice Box 3 from Burger Motorsport with excellent customer service;
3) best rempa is GIAC one (they called it ECU reflash);
4) oil temperature becomes a problem , big problem, if you use frequently your car for track days;
5) removing downpipes and using free flow cats can reduce some problem, also oil temperature lows down;
6) it's a stupid thing not to use the best petrol on car like this one;
7) You'd better to consider a better focused oil for N54 Than the castrol italian dealers use;
8) persistent ticking noise from the bonnet when car idles at traffic light or when you decelerate at low speed: wastegate valves are gone impossible change them without changing the entire turbo system group;
9) HPFP failed in 75% of the times;
10) Read first 9 points and then let your car be blessed by the priest/chaplain/your-god-minister-on heart of the nearest church/mosque/whatever-pray-site ...

francesco from Italy, pride owner of a non twin scroll non turbo, non direct injected beauty made by munich.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Vel

Yes, I know about the problems; just because a car has a problem doesn't mean that a suit is in the works and it doesn't mean that it's a class action, which need to be certified in and of them themselves. If the suit is real, nothing I asked for is out of the ordinary.

I have a very difficult time believing someone when they post "Hey, you could get in on a big lawsuit if you send an email to this firm!" - I need more than that to believe it. You'd be surprised how many lawyers post on anonymous forums trying to drum up clients for a suit.

I don't like rude or obnoxious people. Ask whatever you want but when you say "OP - instead of just giving us a crappy email. . ." that tends to rankle me. Defend yourself, but I tend to find that skeptics wear their skeptizm on their sleeve like a badge of honor, as if they're the only ones qualified to do it - us mere mortals need a warning label: "Don't try this at home kiddies, leave it to a "professional".

As far as a lawsuit is concerned, I don't know how it is in Florida, but in California just about anybody (and everybody) is starting a "certified" class action lawsuit. Get a paralegal and a "class" of people which is pretty much anything over two or three. I suppose you probably have some kind of respect for the law and the legal profession - that it's self guilding and self restraining? The only restraint to the number of lawsuits filed in court is people's pocket books. FYI: it costs less then $500 to file a suit in California.

Originally Posted by Vel

OP - instead of just giving us a crappy email to join the suit, how about you give us a link, a case number, and what forum this is being litigated in?.

[Vintage]

I am a lawyer, and the last thing I want to do is file a lawsuit. What else am I to do? I have talked to dealer management and BMWNA customer care - they both said nicely to take a leap.

[Vel]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

I don't like rude or obnoxious people. Ask whatever you want but when you say "OP - instead of just giving us a crappy email. . ." that tends to rankle me. Defend yourself, but I tend to find that skeptics wear their skeptizm on their sleeve like a badge of honor, as if they're the only ones qualified to do it - us mere mortals need a warning label: "Don't try this at home kiddies, leave it to a "professional".

As far as a lawsuit is concerned, I don't know how it is in Florida, but in California just about anybody (and everybody) is starting a "certified" class action lawsuit. Get a paralegal and a "class" of people which is pretty much anything over two or three. I suppose you probably have some kind of respect for the law and the legal profession - that it's self guilding and self restraining? The only restraint to the number of lawsuits filed in court is people's pocket books. FYI: it costs less then $500 to file a suit in California.

And I don't like rude people making assumptions. I don't wear my skepticism on my sleeve, but when someone makes a post about joining a class action lawsuit, and the only link is to the plaintiffs email and instructions how to join in, something smells fishy. So get over yourself - I wasn't acting high and mighty, just skeptical, which is something you should make use of on the internet. So knock it off with the insults and the "us lowly mortals"/false piety crap.

Secondly, California is not like the rest of the nation - what passes for normal out there isn't what passes for normal in the rest of the country, so there's no use in making assumptions about the number of suits.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

I am a lawyer, and the last thing I want to do is file a lawsuit. What else am I to do? I have talked to dealer management and BMWNA customer care - they both said nicely to take a leap.

You're alright Vintage. My apologies.

Over a period of 4 years I had some bad experiences with trial lawyers, and unfortunately I tend to over generalize when it comes to that subject.

Having said that, BMWNA and PUMA have set their course. The only protection consumers have is to sue, and I believe your suit is honorable and completely justified. As a lawyer, you well know that most cases never reach the trial phase but end up settling more or less equitably so the suit is a type of negotiation tool. I'm in complete agreement with that as what other leverage does an individual have against a huge corporation. In your case, your suit will likely result in BMWNA having to resend their decision to not warranty your repairs.

In the 1980's I had a case against GM and was able to win, but it was through an arbitration process established by the Better Business Bureau (BBB). Because of agreements the BBB has in place with the auto manufactures (which I'm sure includes BMW), the arbitrator's decision was binding and they paid for my complete engine rebuild and ultimate replacement.

I'll PM you with some additional thoughts about my comments.

[Vintage]

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is file a suit. I asked BMW what could be done short of a lawsuit or who could I talk to with authority to correct the problem, and they actually said "nothing and no one."

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is file a suit. I asked BMW what could be done short of a lawsuit or who could I talk to with authority to correct the problem, and they actually said "nothing and no one."

Did you buy or are you leasing your BMWs? Have you talked to BMWNA or written a letter to the CEO? Is was successful in getting a buyback from BMWNA on an 07 E93 after writing a nice letter to both BMWNA and BMWAG.

[Alext]

I have always suspected that ethanol content in fuel might, might contribute to the HPFP issues. From memory, I read in my 135i manual (N54 engined) that BMW does not recommend use of petrol containing ethanol above a concentration of 10% or something as it can damage the fuel system.

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by Alext

I have always suspected that ethanol content in fuel might, might contribute to the HPFP issues. From memory, I read in my 135i manual (N54 engined) that BMW does not recommend use of petrol containing ethanol above a concentration of 10% or something as it can damage the fuel system.

This has been a persistent theory but many feel it is not the fuel. Don't think it has been proven either way although I have heard that HPFP failure is very rare in Europe where ethanol fuel is almost non-existent.

[Horsedoc67]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

I live in Texas and have spoken to two dealers in the area. I only run Shell V Power or Chevron Supreme through the car (both are 93 octane).

FWIW a few years back a good friend of mine had to have all his fuel injectors replaced on a then fairly new 1999 Chev Surburban. It was done under warranty by GM and he was told that it was because he had been using Chevron gasoline. I only use Shell VPower 91 octane(So. Cal.) and anything but Chevron if Shell is not available. 4600 mi and no HPFP issues yet. I was planning a 4000 mi road trip to the midwest later this month but I am not sure that I want to take the risk. I guess I could take my 10 YO reliable Mitsubishi Montero Sport with 130000 mi on the clock instead.

[Horsedoc67]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

Trust me, the last thing I want to do is file a suit. I asked BMW what could be done short of a lawsuit or who could I talk to with authority to correct the problem, and they actually said "nothing and no one."

In early 2008 I had a complete transmission failure in a 2004 Volvo XC 90 @ 65000 mi. The car had been faithfully maintained by the dealer under a service contract and an extended warranty to 60000 mi. that I had purchased for an extra $1000 when I bought the car. Volvo said no dice on the warranty. In researching the transmission problem I found that failure was very common, not unlike this HPFP issue with the N54. After reading hundreds of pages on the subject I came across the private E-Mail address of the CEO of Volvo NA. I fired off a scathing E-Mail to aforementioned CEO and 2 days later I received a call from the Volvo dealer doing the trans. replacement that the car was ready and I was only responsible for the initial charge for diagnosis of the problem($100 and change).

[Vel]

After a little searching, it seems BMW NA has already been sued before about their N54 twin turbo and the HPFP issue in 2009, though this suit was in Arkansas. Seems BMW has been down this road before:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17233560/Bmw-Law-Suit-Hpfp

[Silver-Bolt]

Originally Posted by Vel

After a little searching, it seems BMW NA has already been sued before about their N54 twin turbo and the HPFP issue in 2009, though this suit was in Arkansas. Seems BMW has been down this road before:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17233560/Bmw-Law-Suit-Hpfp

The problem I see with that case is they are claiming a software issue. It states that BMW software update caused the problem and an aftermarket update fixed the problem. It does not really address the hardware issue with the fuel system. Some usable information but seems to have limited application to Vintage's situation.

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by Silver-Bolt

The problem I see with that case is they are claiming a software issue. It states that BMW software update caused the problem and an aftermarket update fixed the problem. It does not really address the hardware issue with the fuel system. Some usable information but seems to have limited application to Vintage's situation.

What was the outcome of this case?

[m6pwr]

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/10/14...end/#more-8847. Hopefully, the gas pumps will be labelled. I though in CA the pumps had to have a label saying contains ethanol, but maybe not. I asked the owner of the Chevron station where I used to get gas if the high test had any ethanol in it. He checked the last delivery invoice and it said 6% ethanol.

[rmorin49]

Originally Posted by m6pwr

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/10/14...end/#more-8847. Hopefully, the gas pumps will be labelled. I though in CA the pumps had to have a label saying contains ethanol, but maybe not. I asked the owner of the Chevron station where I used to get gas if the high test had any ethanol in it. He checked the last delivery invoice and it said 6% ethanol.

MD requires that all pumps be labeled. Right now they saw that the gas may contain up to 10% ethanol. I guess that will be changing soon to up to 15%. Does anyone know who sells gas with "no ethanol"? I am guessing that the Feds will require all the states to move to the ethanol blend. I, for one, feel this is an abomination. Or maybe it's an "obamanation".

[cdeslandes]

Originally Posted by rmorin49

MD requires that all pumps be labeled. Right now they saw that the gas may contain up to 10% ethanol. I guess that will be changing soon to up to 15%. Does anyone know who sells gas with "no ethanol"? I am guessing that the Feds will require all the states to move to the ethanol blend. I, for one, feel this is an abomination. Or maybe it's an "obamanation".

The 15% is not a mandate, they will only "allow" gas stations to serve up to 15% ethanol, and only for cars made after 2007.
Which means a gas station can:
- Upgrade its pumps at the rate of $20k a piece to serve e15 along with e10;
- Serve e15 on existing pumps which are not certified for it (voiding their pump's warranty);
- Keep on vending e10 gasoline as before (most likely for most gas stations).

This abomination has been in the works ever since the Bush administration. It makes no sense whatsoever unless you're a corn farmer, and will actually increase our dependence on foreign oil.

I don't know if anyone serves gas with no ethanol (probably not in urban areas) but some gas stations serve 5%; they are few and far between.

I've had all kinds of trouble with 10% ethanol gasoline in my power tools, and had to switch to super for those. It hate to think what it does to my car's engine; loss of power and potential corrosion.