New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-23-2017, 07:50 AM   #45
Danyutz
Second Lieutenant
Danyutz's Avatar
Romania
89
Rep
208
Posts

Drives: Mini Cooper
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Romania

iTrader: (0)

40 new models, is this good or bad?
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 08:18 AM   #46
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRib View Post
Another idea to consider is the obsession with "innovation" it is overused and overvalued. Reminds me of the whole "synergy" craze consultants would always talk about. There was an interesting take on this in a Freakonomics podcast that rebutted the importance of innovation.

To that point Steve Jobs did change the market in smartphones, but after the initial iPhone all I see are mild product enhancements. Better screen, software, battery life, faster hardware.
Quite right. Not every single product is going to be a game changer. You have to keep providing and incrementally improving what you know is profitable and has a proven target market. It's that profit that allows you to invest in new ideas and create the next disruptive product.

The thing about BMW's portfolio today is you see a lot of hatchbacks. The reality is that people like practicality and hatchbacks are nothing if not practical. Like others, BMW has learned that you can't just call something a hatchback and expect it to sell though. Hence SUVs are often marketed first for their presence, strength, and ruggedness, and only incidentally for their five door convenience.

BMW's GT models and 4 Series Gran Coupe, as well as similar products from others like Audi, are testbeds for bringing the practicality of five doors to people who remain averse to SUVs, yet would not be caught dead in a traditional hatchback or wagon. I think they are pretty bold moves. In time - at least here in the West - when the dust settles there probably won't be a very big slice of pie left for the four door passenger car. I figure it will be about the size of today's two-door coupe market, and will be dominated by vehicles that are evolutions of today's "four door coupe". Furthermore, as SUVs become more and more car-like, eventually those people who the GT and GC models were built to ween will have come around, and those models can go away. The proper SUVs will have evolved to be even more car-like and essentially functionally equivalent to them anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyutz View Post
40 new models, is this good or bad?
You'll have to keep an eye on BMW's monthly sales reports over the next 20 months to know the answer to that. They are always posted in this forum, so watch for them and join the lively discussion.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 08:39 AM   #47
OneRib
Colonel
United_States
1102
Rep
2,448
Posts

Drives: 2015 AY M3
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quite right. Not every single product is going to be a game changer. You have to keep providing and incrementally improving what you know is profitable and has a proven target market. It's that profit that allows you to invest in new ideas and create the next disruptive product.

The thing about BMW's portfolio today is you see a lot of hatchbacks. The reality is that people like practicality and hatchbacks are nothing if not practical. Like others, BMW has learned that you can't just call something a hatchback and expect it to sell though. Hence SUVs are often marketed first for their presence, strength, and ruggedness, and only incidentally for their five door convenience.

BMW's GT models and 4 Series Gran Coupe, as well as similar products from others like Audi, are testbeds for bringing the practicality of five doors to people who remain averse to SUVs, yet would not be caught dead in a traditional hatchback or wagon. I think they are pretty bold moves. In time - at least here in the West - when the dust settles there probably won't be a very big slice of pie left for the four door passenger car. I figure it will be about the size of today's two-door coupe market, and will be dominated by vehicles that are evolutions of today's "four door coupe". Furthermore, as SUVs become more and more car-like, eventually those people who the GT and GC models were built to ween will have come around, and those models can go away. The proper SUVs will have evolved to be even more car-like and essentially functionally equivalent to them anyway.
Very good points. Also why BMW initially refused to call the original X5 an SUV and kept using the SAV moniker. You can see now that customers are accepting of luxury SUVs, BMW is comfortable using the term even if literature may still say SAV.

Same for the GC models. I still consider them sedans but Mercedes went to great lengths with the CLS to call it a coupe to capture those individuals who still desired a sporty, stylish vehicle and were willing to pay a price premium for it. BMW, Audi, and others are following the same strategy.

I can only imagine what the oft rumored BMW or MB pickup truck would be called.
__________________
2013 E92 M3 LMB (gone but not forgotten)
2015 AY F80 M3 ED 7/9/15 Drop off 7/20/15 Redelivery 8/25/15
My AY M3 ED
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 10:32 AM   #48
AntDX316
Private First Class
AntDX316's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
150
Posts

Drives: 2013 750xi ///M Performance
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

I assume the dealers can't have a good inventory of every single model such as some people (potential buyers) would come in looking for a model that doesn't exist at the dealership and prob buy Mercedes or Lexus instead?

The strategy of picking 40 models to each dealership with different options would be quite a challenge. Some companies only have like up to 20-30 different models or less in their lot but of course BMW does it where they have multiple variants of the same "chassis" but considered different model.

9 - car models excluding M8.
6 - SUV models excluding X7.

Having worked on these vehicles for "retrofits" I find the revisions they do are really awesome. Running different lines across the whole car such as hydraulic and electrical. Different modules and components requiring different pins. It's more than just a year upgrade on the same chassis and some programming.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 10:42 AM   #49
wdeerfield
A family of bimmers
United_States
2744
Rep
7,741
Posts

Drives: '18 G01 X3M40i
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Clifton Park, NY

iTrader: (0)

when the price to lease an x3 is cheaper than a 3er wagon, of course the blind public will go with the x3. bmw prices it to move more SUVs than other models in the US. and being built in the US helps to keep that cost where its at. its no surprise. The people want SUVs because all car commercials are SUVs. so Scott isnt wrong when he says thats what the people want. its what they know and think they want. A car purchase is a large investment for the average family and they are not willing to "make it work" with something potentially smaller even though its all they need.

Id love a 1er sedan with xdrive and a turbo 4 pushing close to 300hp. is it possible, yes. will bmw offer it here? nope.
__________________
2018 PB/Black G01 X3M40i | 699M | ZDA | ZPP | ZPX | Maxton front lip | X3M vents | 15mm Spacers | Diamond G20 style grills
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 11:07 AM   #50
kozzi
Pygocentrus Piraya
kozzi's Avatar
United_States
927
Rep
1,008
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X3MC  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Let's be clear: This is an enthusiast's forum, not "Town and Country" nor "Vanity Fair" magazines. Sure, BMW found a sweet spot for customers seeking a mini-van alternative. Sadly, BMW also seems to have lost interest in developing exciting products for enthusiasts.

I am sincerely glad you enjoy your X-vehicle! But one size doesn't fit all, and enthusiasts have passionate opinions, just like fans.
I was pretty clear in my response to your initial post, which IMO, was ignorant. Passionate or not, comparing an X3 to an old Buick is laughable and I disagree. Love it or hate it, BMW currently makes some of the best performing SAV/SUVs in the world. In most cases, they out perform 99% of what's on the road today. Because a family's needs require an SUV only, that makes them less than an enthusiast? You don't think an X3M could be for enthusiasts? For a family of 5 in a big city with space for only 1 vehicle, the X3 for us is a "one size fits" all. Having the N55 with 300+hp with AWD on tap doesn't hurt either. Why shouldn't consumers have the option for something better than a mini-van? The X3M, for what it is and if done right, would be nothing short of awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silververtu View Post
So more ugly SUV, less beautiful sporty cars
So what do you call the addition of the M2 and M4 GTS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Quite right. Not every single product is going to be a game changer. You have to keep providing and incrementally improving what you know is profitable and has a proven target market. It's that profit that allows you to invest in new ideas and create the next disruptive product.

The thing about BMW's portfolio today is you see a lot of hatchbacks. The reality is that people like practicality and hatchbacks are nothing if not practical. Like others, BMW has learned that you can't just call something a hatchback and expect it to sell though. Hence SUVs are often marketed first for their presence, strength, and ruggedness, and only incidentally for their five door convenience.

BMW's GT models and 4 Series Gran Coupe, as well as similar products from others like Audi, are testbeds for bringing the practicality of five doors to people who remain averse to SUVs, yet would not be caught dead in a traditional hatchback or wagon. I think they are pretty bold moves. In time - at least here in the West - when the dust settles there probably won't be a very big slice of pie left for the four door passenger car. I figure it will be about the size of today's two-door coupe market, and will be dominated by vehicles that are evolutions of today's "four door coupe". Furthermore, as SUVs become more and more car-like, eventually those people who the GT and GC models were built to ween will have come around, and those models can go away. The proper SUVs will have evolved to be even more car-like and essentially functionally equivalent to them anyway.
Some are pretty bold moves indeed. That's why I can't understand why some here are so quick to initially bash BMW and others for pushing ideas and innovations forward. Some will work and some will fail. We may not all agree on the direction they are going in but to just blindly crap on it all is not being realistic. If designing/manufacturing and selling thousands of Xs, XMs, niche GCs and GTs pays for M2s, GTSs and the such, how is that a bad thing? Personally, I think we are on the fringe of great things to come.
__________________
kozzi

2021 BMW X3MC
Donington Grey Metallic / Sakhir Orange & Black Extended Merino Leather / Aluminum Carbon Structure
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 11:09 AM   #51
d05wtt
New Member
23
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Potomac, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
Hi, and interesting. I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee after first shopping the X5. The X quickly fell from contention after learning it isn't even engineered for off-road use. The Jeep, on the other hand, was proficient both on and off-road, as well as being very comfortable, well-built, and reliable. I loved it during many mountain adventures, all-seasons.

I'm sincerely glad you enjoy your X3. It would be a boring world if we all drove the same vehicle. How do you use your X3?
While I can't comment on your opinions on the way it looks or drives because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I can say something about your other comment. You criticize the X5 for not being "engineered for off-road use." It wasn't created for that purpose. C'mon, you know that. These cars were made for soccer moms, or going shopping at Costco, or for safety concerns, etc. You do realize that the majority of so-called SUVs today are for that purpose, not to go off-roading, right? They can do a little off-roading if needed but they're not dedicated off-roading cars. They're people carriers, not for driving in a safari in Africa. How many BMWs, Fords, Hondas, Nissans, or Hyundai SUVs do you see in the Kenyan National Wildlife Preserve? They're usually Land Rovers or Toyota Land Cruisers, or etc.

Btw, when I drove my ex-gf's Grand Cherokee, I found it "drove like an old Buick." Also, I bet the majority of people find stations wagons to have "ugly aesthetics." Otherwise there would be a lot more station wagons on the road. Just saying.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 11:18 AM   #52
OneRib
Colonel
United_States
1102
Rep
2,448
Posts

Drives: 2015 AY M3
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
when the price to lease an x3 is cheaper than a 3er wagon, of course the blind public will go with the x3. bmw prices it to move more SUVs than other models in the US. and being built in the US helps to keep that cost where its at. its no surprise. The people want SUVs because all car commercials are SUVs. so Scott isnt wrong when he says thats what the people want. its what they know and think they want. A car purchase is a large investment for the average family and they are not willing to "make it work" with something potentially smaller even though its all they need.

Id love a 1er sedan with xdrive and a turbo 4 pushing close to 300hp. is it possible, yes. will bmw offer it here? nope.
Also I find most women I talk to about cars pick SUV's becaue they offer the elevated view of the road and feel "safer" because they are so big. They don't want a wagon or a sedan because they don't offer those traits. Plus American roads are big enough to fit them so there is no significant negative to owning one.
__________________
2013 E92 M3 LMB (gone but not forgotten)
2015 AY F80 M3 ED 7/9/15 Drop off 7/20/15 Redelivery 8/25/15
My AY M3 ED
Appreciate 1
kozzi927.00
      03-23-2017, 12:32 PM   #53
BMW-ALPINA
Freude am Fahren
BMW-ALPINA's Avatar
454
Rep
359
Posts

Drives: G26 i4 M50, F11 M550d, E70 X5
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 730dA  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It's what the people want.
Me and all that ones I have spoked with wants the "electric" turn signal and wiper handles back (not the cheap "VW" mechanical that is in the new 5er). Hope you will fix this for the LCI...
__________________
2024 G26 i4 M50 Individual
2015 F11 M550d Individual
2012 E70 X5 30d
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 12:35 PM   #54
kozzi
Pygocentrus Piraya
kozzi's Avatar
United_States
927
Rep
1,008
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X3MC  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
when the price to lease an x3 is cheaper than a 3er wagon, of course the blind public will go with the x3. bmw prices it to move more SUVs than other models in the US. and being built in the US helps to keep that cost where its at. its no surprise. The people want SUVs because all car commercials are SUVs. so Scott isnt wrong when he says thats what the people want. its what they know and think they want. A car purchase is a large investment for the average family and they are not willing to "make it work" with something potentially smaller even though its all they need.

Id love a 1er sedan with xdrive and a turbo 4 pushing close to 300hp. is it possible, yes. will bmw offer it here? nope.
Base price for a 330ix wagon is almost $3K and $100 more to lease per month than a base X3 28i, so the public is not so blind with their wallets. I agree that they will eventually be less expensive (if they don't get killed off) but in the meantime, you could argue that wagons don't sell because people don't want them and they are more expensive.

I don't know much about marketing but what I do know is no one watches commercials anymore...do they? I fast forward.

Sometimes it really is about what people need that they can afford then what they want that they can't. Money spent does the talking. Most consumers need people movers and some consumers want people movers that perform.

I would love to see BMW make the 1er that you want and bring it stateside. The question is do you really need one or do you really want one? Why wouldn't you be willing to "make it work" with something slower? I need a people mover and I want one that performs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRib View Post
Also I find most women I talk to about cars pick SUV's becaue they offer the elevated view of the road and feel "safer" because they are so big. They don't want a wagon or a sedan because they don't offer those traits. Plus American roads are big enough to fit them so there is no significant negative to owning one.
This couldn't be more accurate. And for some married folks, like myself, happy wife...happy life...happier life with an M.
__________________
kozzi

2021 BMW X3MC
Donington Grey Metallic / Sakhir Orange & Black Extended Merino Leather / Aluminum Carbon Structure
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 12:49 PM   #55
Gamb1t
Major
Gamb1t's Avatar
Canada
597
Rep
1,343
Posts

Drives: 330i,X1,Z4,Solstice GXP, RX-8
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Canukistan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyutz View Post
40 new models, is this good or bad?
BMW like many car mfg is in for the revenue and profit. Right now they are chasing the China market. The new money there doesn't really care too much about racing heritage, sporty dynamics whatever. It's about who has the biggest, showiest, unique-est, bling-est, special editionest, special special M-est, most gadget-est vehicle.

RoW will just have to ride the storm through and hope that our beloved models don't get the axe in an effort to produce more X-whatever long wheel base, FWD, transverse box on wheels.

If I have the money, I will stock up on as many manual genuine M-classics as possible.
Appreciate 1
mkoesel7505.50
      03-23-2017, 05:22 PM   #56
tetsuo111
Save the Manuals!
tetsuo111's Avatar
United_States
1224
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: E91 RWD 6MT, X3, Ducati S4R
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: PNW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
I was pretty clear in my response to your initial post, which IMO, was ignorant. Passionate or not, comparing an X3 to an old Buick is laughable and I disagree. Love it or hate it, BMW currently makes some of the best performing SAV/SUVs in the world. In most cases, they out perform 99% of what's on the road today. Because a family's needs require an SUV only, that makes them less than an enthusiast? You don't think an X3M could be for enthusiasts? For a family of 5 in a big city with space for only 1 vehicle, the X3 for us is a "one size fits" all. Having the N55 with 300+hp with AWD on tap doesn't hurt either. Why shouldn't consumers have the option for something better than a mini-van? The X3M, for what it is and if done right, would be nothing short of awesome.
That's the second time you came up short for lacking the ability to articulate your thoughts without name calling. I'll ignore your personal challenges and keep this on topic.

You take my opinion too personally. Why do you care care if I choose not to buy the same car you drive? The forum posted the CEO's remarks for members to comment. My opinion is based on experience with Porsches and BMWs for the past three decades. And based on my experience, I would be happy for BMW's executive suite to crawl back to Audi. They have already diluted the marque enough that this is my last BMW. I and my peers are the demographic who made BMW relevant, and from this enthusiast's perspective it's sad to watch this management team destroy the brand's value.

Comparing a BMW to a Buick is relevant, but you won't know that because you're too busy name calling instead of listening. I drove dad's Buick. I drove an X3. They handle similarly in my experience. Where does that make me ignorant?

Arguing that most SUVs don't go off-road is silly because you support my point. BMW shifted focus from building motorsport-heritage performance vehicles to serving soccer moms. I know which demographic I identify with, and now everyone knows which tribe you belong to.
__________________
2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2017, 05:37 PM   #57
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

How many variants of the same SUV can we have. BMWs now more concerned with answering questions no one asked, instead of the other way around. I don't see my next car being a BMW...
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 09:23 AM   #58
spuntyb
Brigadier General
spuntyb's Avatar
United_States
4052
Rep
4,976
Posts

Drives: 2019 F90 Competition
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnikhil View Post
Lol didn't they just announce they were trying to decrease the amount of models they currently have!?!
They definitely did. Unless it was an Onion article.
__________________
<b>2023 M5C SRG|Aragon || 2018 Macan GTS</b>

2019 F90 Comp MBB|Black (sold)
2018 F80 ZCP TB|SS (sold)
2015 F30 335 AW|CR (sold)
2015 F31 MG|CR (sold)
2011 E90 JB|Oyster (sold)
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 10:58 AM   #59
kozzi
Pygocentrus Piraya
kozzi's Avatar
United_States
927
Rep
1,008
Posts

Drives: 2021 BMW X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2021 BMW X3MC  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
That's the second time you came up short for lacking the ability to articulate your thoughts without name calling. I'll ignore your personal challenges and keep this on topic.

You take my opinion too personally. Why do you care care if I choose not to buy the same car you drive? The forum posted the CEO's remarks for members to comment. My opinion is based on experience with Porsches and BMWs for the past three decades. And based on my experience, I would be happy for BMW's executive suite to crawl back to Audi. They have already diluted the marque enough that this is my last BMW. I and my peers are the demographic who made BMW relevant, and from this enthusiast's perspective it's sad to watch this management team destroy the brand's value.

Comparing a BMW to a Buick is relevant, but you won't know that because you're too busy name calling instead of listening. I drove dad's Buick. I drove an X3. They handle similarly in my experience. Where does that make me ignorant?

Arguing that most SUVs don't go off-road is silly because you support my point. BMW shifted focus from building motorsport-heritage performance vehicles to serving soccer moms. I know which demographic I identify with, and now everyone knows which tribe you belong to.
I did not call you names. Never expected you to answer my questions. I don't care what you buy. Your last post would be interesting to discuss and unpack but since you think I lack the ability to articulate my thoughts and I think your statement was ignorant, no reason to discuss anything with you.

I'll be the first to say, sorry to see you go.
__________________
kozzi

2021 BMW X3MC
Donington Grey Metallic / Sakhir Orange & Black Extended Merino Leather / Aluminum Carbon Structure
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 11:32 AM   #60
Gamb1t
Major
Gamb1t's Avatar
Canada
597
Rep
1,343
Posts

Drives: 330i,X1,Z4,Solstice GXP, RX-8
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Canukistan

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
How many variants of the same SUV can we have. BMWs now more concerned with answering questions no one asked, instead of the other way around. I don't see my next car being a BMW...
Not true. BMW has been creating new segments for years now. When the X5 came out everyone was poking against BMW for losing its roots. People associate 4x4 boxes on wheels to remain in the woods and mud. The X5 however jumpstarted a new segment - Premium SUVs. Rover was the first to market back in the 80s, but they fail to execute successfully.

Then there's the X6 (I hate it btw), despite a useless in my mind design, it too also created another segment that other brands never thought of. Now we have the GLC, Acura variant, Lexus clones etc.

Then there's the X1.... that small petite premium SUV market for those that want to spend the money on a high end SUV but don't want the size. Those urban yuppie outdoorsy folks. BMW is already on its 2nd iteration while Audi, MB, Lexus and the likes are waking up.

If you dig back further, the 3-series was also created for a market that had no idea that they needed a sporty premium compact.

Sometimes to be successful companies have to create market and own that market. Create that lifestyle desire that taps into the human psyche and watch the money come in.

I do pity the dealerships and salespersons. Imagine having to memorize all the products! Carrying a wide selection of these 40+ models in a limited floor space would be a challenge.... let alone moving inventories.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 11:33 AM   #61
tetsuo111
Save the Manuals!
tetsuo111's Avatar
United_States
1224
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: E91 RWD 6MT, X3, Ducati S4R
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: PNW

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozzi View Post
I did not call you names. Never expected you to answer my questions. I don't care what you buy. Your last post would be interesting to discuss and unpack but since you think I lack the ability to articulate my thoughts and I think your statement was ignorant, no reason to discuss anything with you.

I'll be the first to say, sorry to see you go.
Would love to catch-up with you over a drink.
__________________
2011 6MT RWD ClubSport Wagon | 3,185lbs | 1 of 149 ZSPs delivered in North America
Outside: BMW M-Aero, Euro region lighting, Seibon | Inside: M3 cockpit, Recaro SPG, Prototipo, AutoSolutions SSK, UCP | Stop: M3 ST-40R, PFC | Grip: Solid-mounted subframes, rear coilover conversion, M3 Nitron R3, Hyperco, SPL, AKG, ARC8 | Go: StageFP, CF snorkel, 3IM, MILVs, SuperSprint headers, Dundon Motorsports Inconel exhaust, VoltPhreaks | Cool: CSF | PCA #2018100384 | BMW CCA #505794
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 11:35 AM   #62
Taskmaster
Banned
Japan
2463
Rep
9,004
Posts

Drives: M235i 6MT / E92 328 Msport 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Not true. BMW has been creating new segments for years now. When the X5 came out everyone was poking against BMW for losing its roots. People associate 4x4 boxes on wheels to remain in the woods and mud. The X5 however jumpstarted a new segment - Premium SUVs. Rover was the first to market back in the 80s, but they fail to execute successfully.
A question no one asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Then there's the X6 (I hate it btw), despite a useless in my mind design, it too also created another segment that other brands never thought of. Now we have the GLC, Acura variant, Lexus clones etc.
Useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
Then there's the X1.... that small petite premium SUV market for those that want to spend the money on a high end SUV but don't want the size. Those urban yuppie outdoorsy folks. BMW is already on its 2nd iteration while Audi, MB, Lexus and the likes are waking up.
Useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamb1t View Post
If you dig back further, the 3-series was also created for a market that had no idea that they needed a sporty premium compact.

Sometimes to be successful companies have to create market and own that market. Create that lifestyle desire that taps into the human psyche and watch the money come in.

I do pity the dealerships and salespersons. Imagine having to memorize all the products! Carrying a wide selection of these 40+ models in a limited floor space would be a challenge.... let alone moving inventories.
Most of these cars are now variants of what already exists. There is a 3 series sedan, coupe, hatch, wagon and SUV (all with different names) and a slightly larger and smaller version of the same thing.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 12:49 PM   #63
Gamb1t
Major
Gamb1t's Avatar
Canada
597
Rep
1,343
Posts

Drives: 330i,X1,Z4,Solstice GXP, RX-8
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Canukistan

iTrader: (0)

Clearly the numbers suggest otherwise as dictated by the growth of these so-called "question no one asked" segments. Therefore you are missing the point.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 02:02 PM   #64
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3260
Rep
6,299
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
How many variants of the same SUV can we have. BMWs now more concerned with answering questions no one asked, instead of the other way around. I don't see my next car being a BMW...
I agree to an extent. If you look at the market, everyone is buying SUVs so I guess companies like Mercedes and BMW are just trying to flood the market with as many SUV's as they can. Gas got cheap again so people started snatching up SUV's again.

Shit even Porsche has two SUV's. 15 years ago I'd of never thought that was going to happen. Hell most of these SUV types aren't even particularly practical so I don't know wtf is wrong with buyers.

I personally don't care for it but I guess we're in the minority.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 02:16 PM   #65
d05wtt
New Member
23
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Potomac, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo111 View Post
That's the second time you came up short for lacking the ability to articulate your thoughts without name calling. I'll ignore your personal challenges and keep this on topic.

You take my opinion too personally. Why do you care care if I choose not to buy the same car you drive? The forum posted the CEO's remarks for members to comment. My opinion is based on experience with Porsches and BMWs for the past three decades. And based on my experience, I would be happy for BMW's executive suite to crawl back to Audi. They have already diluted the marque enough that this is my last BMW. I and my peers are the demographic who made BMW relevant, and from this enthusiast's perspective it's sad to watch this management team destroy the brand's value.

Comparing a BMW to a Buick is relevant, but you won't know that because you're too busy name calling instead of listening. I drove dad's Buick. I drove an X3. They handle similarly in my experience. Where does that make me ignorant?

Arguing that most SUVs don't go off-road is silly because you support my point. BMW shifted focus from building motorsport-heritage performance vehicles to serving soccer moms. I know which demographic I identify with, and now everyone knows which tribe you belong to.
The fact that you think they do go off-road, just made my point. BMW SUVs were never made to go off-road, just like the Porsche Cayennes, Cadillac Escallades, Audis, etc. And if you think they were supposed to, then you really don't understand. I totally get that you think the moniker "SUV" should mean that they are off-road capable, and in a way I agree. But the reality is that most car brands make SUVs not to do that, and BMW is one of them. They never pretended to be from the start.

When you made comments IN A PUBLIC FORUM that criticize the direction BMW design is going, you left yourself open to criticism also. It's your right to opine as it is mine to opine about your comments. I will borrow your own words, "you take my opinion too personally" and throw it right back at ya. Btw, not once did I call you "ignorant" nor call you names. Since you will "never" buy another BMW, does that still make you a BMW enthusiast? And if not, I guess I won't be seeing your comments in this forum again. In that case, I wish you happiness in your life, and maybe someday, I'll see you in the Jeep Grand Cherokee forums. Take care.
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2017, 02:29 PM   #66
pz619
Brigadier General
3274
Rep
3,254
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
The fact that you think they do go off-road, just made my point. BMW SUVs were never made to go off-road, just like the Porsche Cayennes, Cadillac Escallades, Audis, etc. And if you think they were supposed to, then you really don't understand. I totally get that you think the moniker "SUV" should mean that they are off-road capable, and in a way I agree. But the reality is that most car brands make SUVs not to do that, and BMW is one of them. They never pretended to be from the start.

When you made comments IN A PUBLIC FORUM that criticize the direction BMW design is going, you left yourself open to criticism also. It's your right to opine as it is mine to opine about your comments. I will borrow your own words, "you take my opinion too personally" and throw it right back at ya. Btw, not once did I call you "ignorant" nor call you names. Since you will "never" buy another BMW, does that still make you a BMW enthusiast? And if not, I guess I won't be seeing your comments in this forum again. In that case, I wish you happiness in your life, and maybe someday, I'll see you in the Jeep Grand Cherokee forums. Take care.
Patently false. Ever done PDC or any of the BMW drive experiences? The first thing they give you is an X vehicle which you take off road. Whether owners do it or not is a different argument. Is it as capable as a jeep, of course not, but it does have some capability.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST