Z4 as year-round car in Michigan or Minnesota?

[PopsnBurbles]

My brother is moving out to Minnesota or Michigan depending on where he goes for his job. We both never experienced winter driving outside of SoCal. Sure, he's driven in Lake Tahoe and Big Bear (during Winter) a handful of times but both times he wasn't sure what he was doing. The same goes for me when I drove through Oregon (during winter and there was still some snow on the already cleared road) "Grapevine" when it "hailed" (I call it hail because the falling stuff was ice as big as green peas). We were both using worn out all seasons on an AWD SUV. The best we could do was ease up on the throttle inputs, throttle release, braking, and make steering inputs as gradual as possible. He thought getting back on power was the sketchy part and I thought braking was the nasty part of ice/snow driving. Past that, neither of us have more ice/snow driving.

Currently, he has a (stock) Z4 35i DCT and is considering taking it with him. He doesn't want to part with it but is simultaneously thinking that getting a "big 4WD" car will be better. It would be sad to see him get rid of the Z4 for something he doesn't like because it would be like me getting rid of my beloved 1er. I know I do not have the right to tell him that "oh, you'll be fine if you get a dedicated set of winter tires" because I've never experienced that. I personally believe (from what I understand) that AWD/4WD cars will only be beneficial when it comes to taking off from a stop or getting out from getting stuck. Braking and cornering are virtually the same if the AWD/4WD and the RWD car have the proper shoes on. However, these thoughts are all "theoretical" with no real basis other than what I feel from driving 4WD, AWD, and RWD cars.

Now, for people who experience thick (I know, relative term) snow every winter: is it hard to drive in the snow (consider Michigan or Minnesota...apparently, they're two of the worst states when it comes to snow/ice) in a RWD car given the driver has zero snow/ice experience? This is assuming the driver in question will not go around and drifting or attack corners sideways. Let's ignore clearance issues when getting out of the driveway because he will most likely live in a place where the driveways (at least) are clear. However, are clearance issues as bad in the streets? highways? What other things do I/we need to know when moving to an area that goes white in winter?

Owning 2 cars isn't a viable option for him because he'll most likely not bother with 2 cars + his expected space will not really allow the luxury of 2 cars.

EDIT: at the mod who did it, Thanks for the move and retitle

[lens]

Originally Posted by PopsnBurbles

My brother is moving out to Minnesota or Michigan depending on where he goes for his job. We both never experienced winter driving outside of SoCal. Sure, he's driven in Lake Tahoe and Big Bear (during Winter) a handful of times but both times he wasn't sure what he was doing. The same goes for me when I drove through Oregon (during winter and there was still some snow on the already cleared road) "Grapevine" when it "hailed" (I call it hail because the falling stuff was ice as big as green peas). We were both using worn out all seasons on an AWD SUV. The best we could do was ease up on the throttle inputs, throttle release, braking, and make steering inputs as gradual as possible. He thought getting back on power was the sketchy part and I thought braking was the nasty part of ice/snow driving. Past that, neither of us have more ice/snow driving.

Currently, he has a (stock) Z4 35i DCT and is considering taking it with him. He doesn't want to part with it but is simultaneously thinking that getting a "big 4WD" car will be better. It would be sad to see him get rid of the Z4 for something he doesn't like because it would be like me getting rid of my beloved 1er. I know I do not have the right to tell him that "oh, you'll be fine if you get a dedicated set of winter tires" because I've never experienced that. I personally believe (from what I understand) that AWD/4WD cars will only be beneficial when it comes to taking off from a stop or getting out from getting stuck. Braking and cornering are virtually the same if the AWD/4WD and the RWD car have the proper shoes on. However, these thoughts are all "theoretical" with no real basis other than what I feel from driving 4WD, AWD, and RWD cars.

Now, for people who experience thick (I know, relative term) snow every winter: is it hard to drive in the snow (consider Michigan or Minnesota...apparently, they're two of the worst states when it comes to snow/ice) in a RWD car given the driver has zero snow/ice experience? This is assuming the driver in question will not go around and drifting or attack corners sideways. Let's ignore clearance issues when getting out of the driveway because he will most likely live in a place where the driveways (at least) are clear. However, are clearance issues as bad in the streets? highways? What other things do I/we need to know when moving to an area that goes white in winter?

Owning 2 cars isn't a viable option for him because he'll most likely not bother with 2 cars + his expected space will not really allow the luxury of 2 cars.

Get good winter tires, and the WORST thing you can do is slam the brakes.

There are performance winters (Sacrifices a bit of snow grip for dry grip, and doesn't wear out the tread as fast on dry vs snow tires)
And Snow/ice tires/studded (maximum grip on snow/ice, but more road noise, and tread wears faster on dry pavement.)

You can do the 2 following:

1. Tap the brakes repeatively if you hit ice or if you slide, do not hold the brake pedal down.
2. If that fails, full throttle your ass outta there.

If you need help, the easiest way to learn is to go out at night and find an empty parking lot and drift around with traction control off, it's the easiest way to learn the limits of yourself and your car.

[PopsnBurbles]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Get good winter tires, and the WORST thing you can do is slam the brakes.

There are performance winters (Sacrifices a bit of snow grip for dry grip, and doesn't wear out the tread as fast on dry vs snow tires)
And Snow/ice tires/studded (maximum grip on snow/ice, but more road noise, and tread wears faster on dry pavement.)

You can do the 2 following:

1. Tap the brakes repeatively if you hit ice or if you slide, do not hold the brake pedal down.
2. If that fails, full throttle your ass outta there.

If you need help, the easiest way to learn is to go out at night and find an empty parking lot and drift around with traction control off, it's the easiest way to learn the limits of yourself and your car.

Oh yes, jamming the brakes is the worst. It just a) shocks the car's balance and b) send the car skidding taking away traction.

I wish I can easily find empty parking lots in my area where cops would leave you alone the moment you're a bit playful. I seriously jammed the brakes one time at an empty lot and a cop lit up and rushed to me.

But thanks for the tire advice; I never realized that the two kinds of winter tires had a difference in dry traction.

[lens]

Originally Posted by PopsnBurbles

Oh yes, jamming the brakes is the worst. It just a) shocks the car's balance and b) send the car skidding taking away traction.

I wish I can easily find empty parking lots in my area where cops would leave you alone the moment you're a bit playful. I seriously jammed the brakes one time at an empty lot and a cop lit up and rushed to me.

But thanks for the tire advice; I never realized that the two kinds of winter tires had a difference in dry traction.

I usually run performance winters (sottozero 3) because it lets you run your winters longer when the temperature is still below 7 degrees celcius, or let you put it on before snow hits without worrying about treadwear.

[Bbb34]

These might be common sense but, here it goes.

Winter tires are a must have, I cannot stress this enough.
Adjust your speed, and always give yourself enough distance.
Practice on empty parking lots and roads, see how the car feels, learn how to counter steer and use ABS.
When you lose control, and you will lose control, don't panic, look where you want to go not where you might end up.
Avoid sudden moves, like line changes, breaking hard, everything should be done gentle and smooth especially at higher speeds.
Most cities will offer some sort of winter driving course, I never have, but might not be the worst idea to take one.
Remember that AWD cars need just as long to stop as FWD/RWD.
Ice and especially black ice are scary, no matter the level of experience they are tough to handle, so again adjust your speed if suspecting icy roads.

There probably lots more I'm forgetting, but in time after you get a feel for it. Winter driving it's not a big deal at all. Common sense, respect for winter road conditions and other drivers you share the road with go a long way.

I'm personally doing just fine, much better than expected actually, with RWD in a city that has tons of snow and ice 4+ months in a year, but, of course AWD works better in these conditions.

As for clearance being an issue, it might be if you're caught in the middle of massive storm, but 95% of the time it's not, roads in most urban areas are kept in great conditions very quickly after the snowfall.

[KingOfJericho]

I had a tuned 135i during three of our worst winters in history. With snow tires, I felt incredibly confident. Never a traction issue and the heavy snow states tend to take much better care of their roads than those states with less frequent snowfall. I've always felt more confident on the road in a smaller RWD car with appropriate tires than a large SUV. SUVs just carry too much momentum and take longer to stop. That's pretty much the most important factor in snow driving.

[AWD Addict]

Get an AWD vehicle, and take a winter driving course.

[BEM-S4]

Midwest is flat he'll be fine with stud less ice and snow winters. It's places like the Northeast with hills that are a major pain in the ass. I drove a FWD Saab w all seasons in Chicago way back when and was fine.

Assuming your brother isn't a physician and MUST get to work at the hospital or something along those lines, just stay home on the day or two a year it really sucks. Also living in someplace that gets a lot of snow, they know what to do and can get the roads in good shape quickly. Unlike someplace like Atlanta for instance where a couple of inches will shut the city down.

[PopsnBurbles]

Bbb34 I never considered the idea of "winder driving school" for some stupid reason. It would be cool if the place he will go to offer that. Thanks for that tip! Not a single soul in our family took driving school yet and this might be a good time for that. Fortunately, no accidents (well, none that we're at fault) + not a single ticket yet in the bloodline.

KingOfJericho It's awesome to know that the 1er can soldier on even in the worst road conditions. It almost makes me want to move out of SoCal too. But more seriously, that's exactly what I felt when we drove through Oregon this past Chistmas/holiday season. The braking ability was severely cut and the weight was very apparent. (On a side note, did you drive the exige in the snow? I'd imagine the super lightweight + MR layout must be real sketchy.)

BEM-S4 No, he's not a physician so that may not be much of an issue. At least, I hope that he can afford to skip work when conditions don't permit it. How does hill driving work? I suspect not enough traction won't let you get over the incline and slide back down/off to the side.

AWD Addict : I'm not doubting your input but what are your reasons?

[Zyal8r]

Any car can go in snow especially with real winter tires. It will get you there. The problem with any car is the salt. DO you really want to see frozen salt slush hanging from your rocker panels to the ground, with the entire car covered by salt spray. You will be wearing boots walking through a snowy slush parking lot only to bring the whole mess into the car. And the wide tires are like snowboards. And when you look under the hood you will see everything rusted and corroded.
Forget the z4 in winter.
Take it with you. The Summers up there are the best in the country albeit a bit short. Get a winter car. Store the Z. Cheaper and safer in the long run.

[bobmos]

Originally Posted by Zyal8r

Any car can go in snow especially with real winter tires. It will get you there. The problem with any car is the salt. DO you really want to see frozen salt slush hanging from your rocker panels to the ground, with the entire car covered by salt spray. You will be wearing boots walking through a snowy slush parking lot only to bring the whole mess into the car. And the wide tires are like snowboards. And when you look under the hood you will see everything rusted and corroded.
Forget the z4 in winter.
Take it with you. The Summers up there are the best in the country albeit a bit short. Get a winter car. Store the Z. Cheaper and safer in the long run.

You paint an ugly picture, for sure... but in real life, these BMW's take the worst of winter and come out sparkling on the other end. I have NEVER had a spot of rust appear on any of my BMW's dating all the way back to the early 1990's. I give my car to the dealer to do a full detail, inside, outside and engine bay, and the car looks and feels brand new all over again each time...

I have had many RWD and X drive models from BMW. Four winter tires essential for RWD... traction control really helps keep the car in line during turns, but the first small incline will stop you in your tracks if roads have any ice or more than a couple of inches of snow on them.

With X drive, the car bolts away from corners, handles slopes and makes winter driving fun. Stopping, as previously been mentioned is still a weak spot.

I have a 535ix and a Z4. Z4 sleeps during the winter, but comes out to play for a lot longer than other droptops I have had in the past.

If he could have only one car, then I am sure he can learn to use the Z4 all winter long. For safety, though, I would leave it at home and grab a taxi on the worst of days.

Cheers.

[Zyal8r]

We are both from cold and snowy places. I am now in South Carolina but drove various sports cars in the North. Ski trips to Lake Placid and Vermont and the coldest of them all Mt Tremblant. I have done it in various roadsters over the years.
Rust is no longer a problem but the salt is so corrosive under the hood and the mess inside the car gets under the carpet. I would not do it to my Z even though it is pretty well sealed even under the engine.. I would buy a cheap FWD. You have a great combination of cars for your climate though.

[PopsnBurbles]

I did feel a negative bias from Zyal but that's good because that's one part of the spectrum for my brother to think about. I'm not sure how real the conditions he posed are or rather if they're as "extreme." Kinda like when people discourage others from getting a Siberian Husky and they're not as difficult as it's made out to be. However, they're still difficult to raise especially in the early years.

[Zyal8r]

Statistically the average daily high in Minneapolis from mid December to the end February never gets above freezing. Average lows most nights is single digits with many below zero.
If you park in an unheated place, any ice in or on the car may not melt for weeks. Some winters are not that cold, some are not that warm You will become very familiar with ice scrapers, frozen locks and dead batteries. Google the Weather channel. Michigan is not as frigid but much snowier. Summers are beautiful and sometimes quite hot. I am not being cynical. I once drove from northern Wisconsin to Chicago in an epic blizzard in a Corvette, never out of sight of a wreck or a jackknifed rig. I found a motel, god knows where, and could not get out of the parking lot for a day. So it can be done if you want to go for it.

[ojo]

Driving the Z4 in Norway all year around, I must say the only problem is the side windows. If snow/rain combined with negative temp, the windows will freeze. And if the windows freeze you can’t get inside the car…. As we know the ground clearance is a bit less than most cars, but it’s only an issue if the guy driving the snowplow has overslept.

Other than that the car works just like other cars. The Z4 has a good weight distribution and with good winter tires ex. Nokian or Continetal you’re good.

Be gentle and avoid sudden movement ex braking/acceleration/file changing. I have FWD, AWD cars all around me, they might get to the destination a little bit before me(most don’t). As a bonus driving a small car, the Z4 heats up very quickly.

[Ozie]

Originally Posted by ojo

Driving the Z4 in Norway all year around, I must say the only problem is the side windows. If snow/rain combined with negative temp, the windows will freeze. And if the windows freeze you can’t get inside the car…. As we know the ground clearance is a bit less than most cars, but it’s only an issue if the guy driving the snowplow has overslept.

Other than that the car works just like other cars. The Z4 has a good weight distribution and with good winter tires ex. Nokian or Continetal you’re good.

Be gentle and avoid sudden movement ex braking/acceleration/file changing. I have FWD, AWD cars all around me, they might get to the destination a little bit before me(most don’t). As a bonus driving a small car, the Z4 heats up very quickly.

All true! I'm driving my Z4 all year around in Finland. Coldest morning in last winter was around -28 C/-18,5 F.

My previous car was E85 Z4 with H&R springs. Drove it also all year around.

And Z4 is alll fun on the snow with Sport+ or without DTC/DSC

[cdmulders]

Originally Posted by bobmos

I have a 535ix and a Z4. Z4 sleeps during the winter, but comes out to play for a lot longer than other droptops I have had in the past.
Cheers.

You have the same toys that I do. I moved away from Ottawa last summer, and had winter tires on both the 535xi and Z4. Certainly, the xDrive with winter tires is hard to beat, but I was reasonably confident with the Z4 on the rare occasions I used it in snow.