Fuel Injectors

[ZCavaricci]

Long time reader, first time poster

Brought my car to the dealer today because of occasional rough start and CEL. I had a feeling based on the fault code that it was going to be the dreaded fuel injector issue others are experiencing. I called bmwna beforehand asking to cover the repairs and they asked me to bring my car to the dealer for an official diagnosis. The SA came back with $5600 quote to replace the 6 FI, "tranny pan leak", and broken valve cover. I then told him about my convo with bmw and he said i should have told him beforehand. Well I purposely not told him as to not cloud his judgment. It really shouldn't matter. I told him this is a known issue and surprisingly he agreed without arguing. He called me back after talking to his bmw contact and right off the bat knocked off $2800 for the 6 FI but i had to cover the rest for the tranny leak and broken valve cover. I did not get a good feeling about this since 09 35i only has 24k mi. I am getting a second opinion from an indy since $2800 is way to steep even if its warranted.

I want to thank this forum especially those who posted re: this issue.

[jparnes1]

Wow that's not a lot of miles for its kind of problem. One would think major parts would last a lot longer than this. I'd fight this with bmwna.

[Vintage]

And yet another BMWNA fight on a car with 24k miles - that is ridiculous! It makes me mad, very mad.

[Asbjorn]

I had both dct tranny pans replaced on my 09 after similar milage back in 2012. It wasn't cheap at all. I recommend having the dct oil changed while they are at it anyway.

Still no idling issues here, but mine started taking a bit longer to start when cold since last week... wondering if it is a failing pump or the injectors.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

I had both dct tranny pans replaced on my 09 after similar milage back in 2012. It wasn't cheap at all. I recommend having the dct oil changed while they are at it anyway.

Still no idling issues here, but mine started taking a bit longer to start when cold since last week... wondering if it is a failing pump or the injectors.

Or battery....? Your car is 5 years old after all.

[cuddapah]

Three times for my 2011 Z4 35i. All done under warranty.
Why there is no class action lawsuit for all the defects we are seeing in our Z4s ?

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Or battery....? Your car is 5 years old after all.

Good point. Actually the first time it happened was after I had been listening to music in the car until it forced off the hifi due to low battery. I had the battery replaced two years ago. Maybe it is due soon again. Or needs a longer drive to fully recharge.

EDIT: seems you were right, it fired up at first attempt today (I took it for a long drive earlier this week).

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by cuddapah

Three times for my 2011 Z4 35i. All done under warranty.
Why there is no class action lawsuit for all the defects we are seeing in our Z4s ?

I'd say. I'm getting worried, w/ the HPFP, LPFP, injectors, leaking roof mechanism(!)...what's next? It's my only car and I plan on keeping it for a long time.

I know it's not a bulletproof econobox but I didn't expect it to be a potential money pit. Arrgh.

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'd say. I'm getting worried, w/ the HPFP, LPFP, injectors, leaking roof mechanism(!)...what's next? It's my only car and I plan on keeping it for a long time.

I know it's not a bulletproof econobox but I didn't expect it to be a potential money pit. Arrgh.

But it is such a fantastic money pit... Just got back from a long drive with DSC=off in manual mode and top down and I am back in love.

BTW I have come to realize that the metallic click sound mine makes every time I shift from 2nd to 3rd might actually just be the exhaust can flap closing and not the DCT as I always feared.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

Good point. Actually the first time it happened was after I had been listening to music in the car until it forced off the hifi due to low battery. I had the battery replaced two years ago. Maybe it is due soon again. Or needs a longer drive to fully recharge.

EDIT: seems you were right, it fired up at first attempt today (I took it for a long drive earlier this week).

Maybe hook it up to a trickle charger if you're not driving it regularly, or get a longer drive in once in a while.

[JR956678]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Maybe hook it up to a trickle charger if you're not driving it regularly, or get a longer drive in once in a while.

Good advice.

I owned a 2006 E60 M5 up until last November and I never HAD to replace the original battery. But for easily the last 3 years I owned the car I had to nurse the battery. If I didn't, or if all I was doing was driving mostly around town the battery would get low and the computer would start cannibalizing various systems - notably the radio which sometimes would simply not turn on. I had a battery tender and I would hook that up anytime I thought I wouldn't be driving the car for a while - even if the "while" was as short as a couple of days; especially if the weather was cold.

More modern BMWs make more extensive use of Efficient Dynamics which include (among other things) regenerative braking to fully turn up the alternator charging rate. If you don't drive much, drive only at low speeds and especially at idle, the alternator charge rate is very low - or perhaps not even charging at all (based on what I see with my 2014 X3 which has a battery charging meter that shows when you're charging the battery - and when you're not).

Deeply discharging a normal automotive battery will rather quickly reduce it's capacity to take and hold a charge. One deep / nearly complete discharge can almost ruin the battery and I think it's best to avoid that whenever possible. I think a battery tender (a charger that is designed more to maintain a full charge rather than recharge quickly) is a "must have" especially if you don't drive the car on a daily basis.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCavaricci

Long time reader, first time poster

Brought my car to the dealer today because of occasional rough start and CEL. I had a feeling based on the fault code that it was going to be the dreaded fuel injector issue others are experiencing. I called bmwna beforehand asking to cover the repairs and they asked me to bring my car to the dealer for an official diagnosis. The SA came back with $5600 quote to replace the 6 FI, "tranny pan leak", and broken valve cover. I then told him about my convo with bmw and he said i should have told him beforehand. Well I purposely not told him as to not cloud his judgment. It really shouldn't matter. I told him this is a known issue and surprisingly he agreed without arguing. He called me back after talking to his bmw contact and right off the bat knocked off $2800 for the 6 FI but i had to cover the rest for the tranny leak and broken valve cover. I did not get a good feeling about this since 09 35i only has 24k mi. I am getting a second opinion from an indy since $2800 is way to steep even if its warranted.

I want to thank this forum especially those who posted re: this issue.

Hi OP, sorry to hear about your issues.

My model year 2012 35i DCT has had the HPFP and all 6 injectors replaced at 18k miles too, so you aren't alone on that front. My SA also mentioned this was a known issue, so I also recommend you get BMWNA involved to try and cover more cost for the injectors. One route you could try to take is ask about the HPFP, and if that is faulty, argue that may have caused damage to the injectors.

I haven't had any issues with valve cover gasket or DCT leak yet but those are on my radar screen as things to get looked at next time my car is in for service.

For what it is worth, these things shouldn't come as a surprise to us... the injectors and HPFP were well documented in the N54 335 (and likely the older Z435 used the original part designs, not the later revisions) and the DCT leaks I believe are documented by the E9X M3 owners.

As for the roof, I don't know of any vert that hasn't eventually had roof problems, and ours will likely be more $$ since it is a low volume folding hard top...

[z4z4z4]

...and then there are those of us who have never been back to the dealership, (33000 miles).
There are issues that some have experienced and they are real, not imagined, but the worst issue is the omnipotent SA empowered to quote excessive charges while looking you in the eye.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by z4z4z4

...and then there are those of us who have never been back to the dealership, (33000 miles).
There are issues that some have experienced and they are real, not imagined, but the worst issue is the omnipotent SA empowered to quote excessive charges while looking you in the eye.

Knock on wood, no issues either at 24K.

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by JR956678

Good advice.

I owned a 2006 E60 M5 up until last November and I never HAD to replace the original battery. But for easily the last 3 years I owned the car I had to nurse the battery. If I didn't, or if all I was doing was driving mostly around town the battery would get low and the computer would start cannibalizing various systems - notably the radio which sometimes would simply not turn on. I had a battery tender and I would hook that up anytime I thought I wouldn't be driving the car for a while - even if the "while" was as short as a couple of days; especially if the weather was cold.

More modern BMWs make more extensive use of Efficient Dynamics which include (among other things) regenerative braking to fully turn up the alternator charging rate. If you don't drive much, drive only at low speeds and especially at idle, the alternator charge rate is very low - or perhaps not even charging at all (based on what I see with my 2014 X3 which has a battery charging meter that shows when you're charging the battery - and when you're not).

Deeply discharging a normal automotive battery will rather quickly reduce it's capacity to take and hold a charge. One deep / nearly complete discharge can almost ruin the battery and I think it's best to avoid that whenever possible. I think a battery tender (a charger that is designed more to maintain a full charge rather than recharge quickly) is a "must have" especially if you don't drive the car on a daily basis.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

[bigendbob]

Would be interesting to fit a voltmeter and monitor the alternator output at various driving stages.

[Asbjorn]

Originally Posted by bigendbob

Would be interesting to fit a voltmeter and monitor the alternator output at various driving stages.

I believe you can see the exact voltage within the hidden OB menu after you have entered the password. It is probably under menu item 09.00 but I do not remember exactly.

[ZCavaricci]

Addendum: i got my car back from the indy for the valve cover and xmission leak. I saved a thousand bucks from the dealer quote. Yes, there are no fancy loaners and coffee&donuts in the lobby but i can buy plenty of donut holes from the money i saved. BMW covered the 6 injectors but made me pay for the spark plugs.

Side story re: SA - after letting him tell me the grand total for all repairs, $5600, he said the "good news is he has all the parts available." Gee thanks sir. I then busted out the story regarding the injectors. He got indignant because i did not let him finish as he was about to check with BMW if they would cover the repairs. Yeah and my butt hurts from falling off the turnip truck...

[jparnes1]

So bmw covered the injectors and they gave them to you to take to an Indy shop?

[tranquility]

What a PITA. I was out of warranty when my fuel injectors failed (supposedly, but I wonder if it was actually the HPFP that failed) and got hit w/ a +$3K bill. Stupid BMW should've covered it, no way they should have died in ~3 years! Incidentally, as most of you know, the HPFP they covered even though I was out of warranty...so the million $ question is: why does the HPFP have extended coverage but not the injectors?

[jparnes1]

Because the HPFP issue was covered on 60 Minutes and was a total embarrassment for bmw.

[cuddapah]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

Because the HPFP issue was covered on 60 Minutes and was a total embarrassment for bmw.

I didn't know HPFP made it to 60 minutes. When did it happen ? Google shows links from 2010.