2011 35i to 2011 35is non-obvious mechanical differences?

[williakz]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

..the 35i/35is brakes are the same outside the US.

Looks like you have some support from nick for this assertion; again, do you have any evidence for it?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by williakz

Where's your evidence for this, nick? I'm not doubting your assertion; I'm simply asking where it is shown in black and white. It's a Missouri thing (although I've never been in Missouri...)

left is 35is right is 35i

I validated the difference by looking last time I was at the dealer getting oil for my 35i (whose caliper does indeed look like the right picture in that thread)

EDIT as for ashjorn's assertion, there is some 2009 launch literature floating around here that claimed the larger brake rotor size.. isn't applicable for US 35i.. forum conjecture is that it is for ROW 35i

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I validated the difference ...

I'm not disputing the difference in brakes between the 35i and the 35is. Differences in rotors, calipers, and mounting hardware is well-documented by pics, parts lists, and visual inspection. I AM disputing the assertion that BMW produced (and produces) 35i and 35is models for non-US, non-European markets in which identical brakes were (and are) supplied on both models. To date, NO evidence has been produced to substantiate this claim. Until this changes, I maintain that all 35i and 35is models worldwide were supplied with different brake systems.

[AdamGarciaTX]

Originally Posted by williakz

Wrong again. I am calculating the "appropriate" or "reasonable" or "expected" discount between the two models. I come up with a $400 difference in component pricing (+ ECU tune) versus a $5,300 list price difference. While willing to accept a "lesser" car ($400 worth of inferiority), I would like the opportunity to bring the ECU software maps to equality. Perhaps someday this will occur...

As I said, component differences in your creating a 35IS out of a 35I IN REAL LIFE, will not just be the difference but the full or "discounted" or "fair market value" in each individual component needed for each aspect to work correctly. From BMW's standpoint and their cost, sure. But we arent BMW. If we were BMW then we would also be taking into account the styling differences and other subtle differences that we will never notice such as the difference drive shafts, etc. Granted, even then they may cost BMW the same, but we are car manufacturers to make one thing into the other at cost.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by AdamGarciaTX

As I said, component differences in your creating a 35IS out of a 35I IN REAL LIFE, will not just be the difference but the full or "discounted" or "fair market value" in each individual component needed for each aspect to work correctly. From BMW's standpoint and their cost, sure. But we arent BMW. If we were BMW then we would also be taking into account the styling differences and other subtle differences that we will never notice such as the difference drive shafts, etc. Granted, even then they may cost BMW the same, but we are car manufacturers to make one thing into the other at cost.

WTF is the matter with you? There are no differences other than those already discussed between the two models. It's the same car with a different exhaust tone, different brake components, some chromed plastic, different numbers in an ECU map AND THAT'S ALL! (Oops, I forgot the floor mats, sorry.) There's no "styling differences," no mystique, no aura, no kavod! Same car, my friend. I'm not criticizing BMW for their pricing or their choice of "differentiators" between the two models. I'm simply trying to beat them at their game!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by williakz

Until this changes, I maintain that all 35i and 35is models worldwide were supplied with different brake systems.

ROW 35i owners posted pics of different brake calipers than US 35i owners

EDIT: i love it.. any time 35i vs. 35is comes up you are right in there extolling the virtues of converting the "lesser" product to be "the same for less"

[AdamGarciaTX]

Originally Posted by williakz

WTF is the matter with you? There are no differences other than those already discussed between the two models. It's the same car with a different exhaust tone, different brake components, some chromed plastic, different numbers in an ECU map AND THAT'S ALL! (Oops, I forgot the floor mats, sorry.) There's no "styling differences," no mystique, no aura, no kavod! Same car, my friend. I'm not criticizing BMW for their pricing or their choice of "differentiators" between the two models. I'm simply trying to beat them at their game!

Look at the back of the car and diffuser as well. Obviously you've never had to run project costs for a company. I've done project accounting and planning, design, testing, etc. is more expensive than you can imagine. The testing and programming of everything including the ecu isn't free nor instant. We can "tune" it ourselves by copying their code but write it and test it for mass applications across the world then we will talk. Obviously you are too invested in being right in your microscopic view to see the macroscopic view you are arguing against.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by AdamGarciaTX

Look at the back of the car and diffuser as well. Obviously you've never had to run project costs for a company. I've done project accounting and planning, design, testing, etc. is more expensive than you can imagine. Obviously you are too invested in being right in your microscopic view to see the macroscopic view you are arguing against.

Then please zoom OUT and explain your thesis to me (and those who are following this thread now and in the future) in as much detail as it takes you to say something worthwhile. As you make this attempt, however fruitless, do remember that I am NOT arguing against BMW's pricing, its cost structure, its marketing strategy, its financial performance, or its reputation in the automotive industry! I am ONLY arguing that the 35i is so close to the 35is that an enterprising tuning company could, for all intents and purposes, equalize the two vehicles and, should the tuning company choose to do so for a modest price, say $499, there would be a sizable market for their product. A 35is in all but name for a $5,000 discount? Count me and thousands of others in! But you had a point to make, I believe...

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

ROW 35i owners posted pics of different brake calipers than US 35i owners

Did I misread the other post? I thought 35i and 35is were being compared, and as we all know, ample evidence as to the difference between the models has already been evidenced. What has been asserted, but has NOT yet been shown is that 35i and 35is brake systems are the same elsewhere in world markets. Are you implying that if 35i systems differ, then somehow that leads to the conclusion that 35i and 35is brake systems are the same in places other than Europe or the USA? I don't see how that follows logically. Perhaps I misunderstand in some way. It IS exceedingly rare that I do so, but it DOES occur from time to time. Is this one of those blue moons?

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by williakz

Wrong again. I am calculating the "appropriate" or "reasonable" or "expected" discount between the two models. I come up with a $400 difference in component pricing (+ ECU tune) versus a $5,300 list price difference. While willing to accept a "lesser" car ($400 worth of inferiority), I would like the opportunity to bring the ECU software maps to equality. Perhaps someday this will occur...

The DCT, adaptive M suspension, etc. are only $400?

[williakz]

Originally Posted by CeEl

The DCT, adaptive M suspension, etc. are only $400?

In another post IN THIS THREAD, I said:

"The $5,300 price differential between the 35i and the 35is is with ALL your "features" added to the 35i ...

Don't take my word for it, though. Go to the BMW website for your country and use its Build Your Own configurator to build two cars. One, a 35is and the second, a 35i with all the options needed to make it equivalent to the 35is. The price difference between the two cars will be approx. $5,300. Try it!"

I reiterate. TRY IT!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by williakz

. Are you implying that if 35i systems differ, then somehow that leads to the conclusion that 35i and 35is brake systems are the same in places other than Europe or the USA?

Its not my implication, it is what others 35i owners outside of US have posted.

Another way to say it is that 35i and 35is share the sames brakes everywhere except the US where the 35i has smaller brakes shared with the 30i


Weird that my first post used to be a link to a thread and now it is the picture directly.. who edited my post? admin? moderator ?

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Its not my implication, it is what others have posted. non US 35i owners have posted pics of different brakes than US 35i owners and those non US 35i brakes are the same as 35is brakes

Another way to say it is that 35i and 35is share the sames brakes everywhere except the US where the 35i has smaller brakes shared with the 30i

This being the case, it should be easy for someone in a non-USA market (Asia, Europe, Antarctica, ...) to post an online parts list (exploded view would be nice) showing same part numbers for both 35i and 35is brake systems. Pics taken by who knows who, taken who knows when, and taken of who knows what do not constitute definitive evidence in my view.

Please understand, I am not contradicting you; your assertion is plausible though why BMW and/or US authorities would choose such an arrangement is a mystery. I am simply withholding judgement until proper evidence demonstrates the facts. Kay?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by williakz

This being the case, it should be easy for someone ?

realoem.com

put in a country other than US

my speculation as to why it happened.. so 17" wheels on the base 35i would clear brakes and so that at launch 30i and 35i would share the same brakes to cut costs

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

realoem.com

put in a country other than US

my speculation as to why it happened.. so 17" wheels on the base 35i would clear brakes and so that at launch 30i and 35i would share the same brakes to cut costs

Why wouldn't the same logic apply elsewhere in the world? Are non-USA 35i models not produced in 17" wheels? Is the 30i restricted only to the North American market? (Haven't had a chance yet to try realoem, but I will soon, thanks)

[HerrK]

Well it's like this, in Europe and in particular on the German Autobahn, you can run balls out and they don't have morons sitting in the left hand lane. Ocassionally though someone will pull out to pass in the left hand lane and when your clipping along at 250+ KPH a little extra brake is appreciated.

We don't really have that duty free opportunity in the US. If you all do a little searching I believe it was ChuckB or Chuck89 (can't remember which) who did the larger brake rotor/caliper conversion to his vehicle as he often laps the ''Grüne Hölle''. It does involve a software remap if I recall properly.

[Boomer67]

Just slightly off topic but seeing these brake caliper photos side by side just reminds me that this is perhaps the only spot on the Z4 that is...well...a bit of an eyesore really. Why is it that BMW continues to make such shoddy looking brake assemblies. The competition either skins them with custom badges and colors or goes the Brembo route. As BMW continues to go to more open wheel designs (which I am partial to), seems like they are showing more and more of these brakes that really don't appear to have been considered at all from a design perspective.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

realoem.com

put in a country other than US

Confirmed for Europe (only choice beside USA I could find). Brake parts are the same between European 35i and 35is models and are the larger, beefier type. I stand both corrected and disappointed. That BMW would choose to supply lesser brakes for the 35i ONLY in the North American is surprising and dismaying.

At the same time, it does NOT change the calculus of my 35i to 35is (almost) proposal in the US. It DOES make my proposal a no-brainer for 35i customers in Europe and Asia. For just a modest expense in a tuning map for their ECUs, 35i owners could transform their car into a TRUE 35is excepting only exhaust tone and minor cosmetics. Helluva deal if ESS would get on the stick! C'mon boys.

Thanks for your digging, nick. Making progress...

[keepittrill]

Wait, why is this in the Z4 forum?

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by williakz

Why wouldn't the same logic apply elsewhere in the world? Are non-USA 35i models not produced in 17" wheels? Is the 30i restricted only to the North American market? (Haven't had a chance yet to try realoem, but I will soon, thanks)

My car's OEM wheels are 18"; the suggested BMW OEM winter set are 17" though and my brakes still fit w/ them. Not sure about my brakes' size, have to take a look later.

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by williakz

Confirmed for Europe (only choice beside USA I could find). Brake parts are the same between European 35i and 35is models and are the larger, beefier type. I stand both corrected and disappointed. That BMW would choose to supply lesser brakes for the 35i ONLY in the North American is surprising and dismaying.
.

It's not that unusual to have different parts for different countries, even significant parts for which one would think it would be easier and less costly to just have the same part everywhere. I got my 2012 about a year ago. I was pretty disappointed that the cars built in March/April last year for the European market had the new roof construction to allow opening/closing up to 2o (?) mph, yet in the US this wasn't available until the 2013 model year - and consequently my car doesn't have that.

[jts1981]

Is anyone else over the whole, 35is this, 35i that? This guy was too cheap, this guy paid too much, blah blah.

What's the point of throwing jabs at each other?

Fact is that 100% people that bought the IS are happy as is, with warranty.

For the 35i crowd some guys want the manual and like tunes with big power gains, and not too concerned with warranty. Again the guys that went that route are also very satisfied.

This wining for a poor man's
IS tune is getting old. If you really believe in it, start a poll with all the parts needed to make it an IS such as brakes and exhaust, tune, voiding warranty.

And I would also ask what is the price for a tune they would expect to pay. We are not ESS and can not set their prices for them.

Let the people decide if your idea has legs or not.

I personally do not think a single 35i buyer would buy a brand new car, modify it, void warranty, only to make it almost like the premium model. If they would modify I'd put money on it that they would want MORE than what is offered in the premium model.