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      11-07-2010, 09:34 AM   #1
Jay Zone
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I had bad gas

Went to BMW to have my HPFP serviced and overheard another guy having the same rough idle on startup and sputtering acceleration etc. The service manager said that we have bad gas stateside and he would only recommend Shell or BPE gas. So I went to the shell website and did some reading on their fuel and it seems like pretty good stuff. Loaded up on Shell VPower 93 and Im pretty sure my N54 runs way better, better pickup, startup etc. I've been using Sheets, Sunoco and my engine runs like there is sugar in the tank compared to shell. I would highly recommend this gas to N54 owners. Somebody try this stuff out and tell me whether you notice the difference too. Until I get my pump swapped come next visit in a few weeks this gas really make a difference in my opinion.

I don't work for Shell but this stuff is a winner for my N54. Once I get a new pump I'll stick with it.

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa.../about_vpower/
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      11-07-2010, 09:40 AM   #2
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Here is a list of participants in the Top Tier gasoline program.

http://www.examiner.com/auto-mechani...soline-quality

And accompanying article:

http://www.examiner.com/auto-mechani...engine-trouble
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      11-07-2010, 09:42 AM   #3
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And directly from the Top Tier gas website:

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
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      11-07-2010, 11:44 AM   #4
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I understand there are actually only 3-4 major refineries of gasoline in the US today. Each of the manufacturers then produces their own "brand" of gasoline through the use of additives. I have the seen the same type of delivery truck deliver gas to several different branded stations in my area.

As for the top tier brands there are a lot of different brands on this list, some of which are sold by the local minimarts like Turkey Hill. It seems the HPFP issue has still not been resolved in terms of whether or not gasoline is related to the failure. If it is true that gasoline with added ethanol is not used in Europe and there are some reported failures in Europe that would seem to eliminate ethanol as a cause.
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      11-07-2010, 12:32 PM   #5
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I have only used Top Teir fuel in my Z3 & 2 Z4s and have never had a fuel problem. I have 6,650 miles on my 2010 Z4 35i and have not had a HPFP issue yet.
In Phoenix Quick Trip is my gas of choice because it is cheaper than some of the major brands and has never given me any problems. I have been told it has more detergent additives than some of the other top tier fuels.
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      11-07-2010, 01:27 PM   #6
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The link below is to a training tutorial on the N54. Page 26 of the Engine Management PDF appears to show that engine oil is used in the operation of the pump or pump plunger.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38856

Pictures in the link below also plainly show oil puddles on parts of the pump.

http://www.bmwfanatics.co.za/printthread.php?tid=8821

Maybe the oil is part of the problem - - that is, oil that is mauled by direct injection (fuel dilution) and very high oil temps in turbos. Just a thought.
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      11-07-2010, 01:58 PM   #7
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Couple of things:

1. You'll notice when reading the info on top tier fuels, they are referring to the detergents put in the gas by the producers. They mention nothing about the quality of the fuel itself. That because IMO, it's pretty much all the same. Detergents are important long term (i.e., of the life of the car) for keeping injectors clean, etc. Switching from a "top tier" fuel to a middle or lower tier would have no impact from one tank full of gas to the next, unless, the fuel was contaminated. Fuel contamination has nothing to do with the detergents put in the gas prior to the delivery.

2. We don't know too much about these pumps, but I was puzzled by the photo of the disassembled HPFP and the large amount oil ponding. That's the "fuel" side of the pump which indicates that oil was mixing with the gas during the pumping action. The other possibility is that little hole in the center is an orifice that permits a small amount of oil through to help lubricate the squash plate and the plungers (pistons). That would certainly help the pumps longevity. On the other hand, there don't appear to be piston "rings" on the plungers to maintain a very tight seal.

3. Some have discussed engine oil contamination, oil shearing, etc., and the impact it has on engine longevity. People have reported HPFP failures within the 1st 1500 miles after purchasing the car new.
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      11-07-2010, 02:35 PM   #8
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I refuse to believe that the HPFP issue is caused by the fuel. Surly the BMW engineering staff has well researched the fuel quality all around the world where the BMW is sold.

Unless the HPFP and Filters were selected by the Girl Friday Accountant filling in for the Fuel System Devision Manager that properly is also an Accountant.



BTW I've been using Shell V-Power for years
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      11-07-2010, 04:05 PM   #9
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I would agree with TeagueAMX but my cars not sputtering with the cold engine and it starts up quicker and is more responsive. With my failing pump it seems to work better. If anyone with a bad pump can confirm or deny thanks. If your like me and waiting for the parts to come in it might ease some of the pain.
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      11-07-2010, 04:48 PM   #10
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The manual advises to use the premium brands. Look in your manual and look for "Required Fuels" p195.

Fuels with lesser quality have many more additives that eat the metallic strip on the fuel sender. They got stuck in the fuel filter and damage your HPFP.

Minimum AKI 87 for your 30i, 89 for your 35i(s). Regular in US is 87, Premium 91, in Europe 91 and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_...ndex_.28AKI.29
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      11-07-2010, 05:11 PM   #11
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KrisNL, looks like you got a dead link

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      11-08-2010, 02:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
KrisNL, looks like you got a dead link

[URL="http://www.***********.com/showthread.php?3435-HPFP-recall-interesting-article&p=51391#post51391"]
You could ask the admin why they replace this URL by all *********** ?
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      11-08-2010, 06:54 AM   #13
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Yeah, I noticed that after I tried it a couple of times. What is the link?
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      11-10-2010, 10:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard_AZ View Post
I have only used Top Teir fuel in my Z3 & 2 Z4s and have never had a fuel problem. I have 6,650 miles on my 2010 Z4 35i and have not had a HPFP issue yet.
In Phoenix Quick Trip is my gas of choice because it is cheaper than some of the major brands and has never given me any problems. I have been told it has more detergent additives than some of the other top tier fuels.
My CA at Chapman Camelback BMW said that QT was an approved gas station. I filled up there today. My partner has a M3 and has always used QT without any problems.
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      11-10-2010, 11:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Yeah, I noticed that after I tried it a couple of times. What is the link?
try like this then.... replace the stars by [Admin Notified] . c o m
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      11-10-2010, 10:10 PM   #16
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Have you tried TUMS or Rolaids?
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      11-10-2010, 11:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
try like this then.... replace the stars by [Admin Notified] . c o m
That's likely why the link was changed.
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      11-11-2010, 12:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
The manual advises to use the premium brands. Look in your manual and look for "Required Fuels" p195.

Fuels with lesser quality have many more additives that eat the metallic strip on the fuel sender. They got stuck in the fuel filter and damage your HPFP.

Minimum AKI 87 for your 30i, 89 for your 35i(s). Regular in US is 87, Premium 91, in Europe 91 and more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_...ndex_.28AKI.29

The way I read the story below is the guy claims that ethanol is damaging his tank and sending unit. But I doubt anyone can show a trend of tank failures related to ethanol besides this one. He also indicates that station’s gas was tested and found to have over 15 percent ethanol. How did that happen? Maybe he was just buying bad gas and that was the problem? Hard to say.

And then there’s the cheap gas and low octane complaint. Here’s the thing – low or high quality of gas has nothing to with octane per se. It’s a rating that specifies a fuel's ability to resist pre-detonation in the combustion chamber, nothing else. Buy a tank full of your best quality 87 octane rated gas, be it Shell, Chevron, Exxon, etc., and pore a $9.99 bottle octane boost from your local auto parts store in there and it just like a higher octane rated fuel.

Quote:
in europe I almost never hear of this problem. Im convinced its all the additives that they put in the fuel here and the damn ethanol thats eating everything alive. During the winter of 06 and 07 when I was at the dealer I used to go through a rash of replacing intank pump assemblies in X3s due to the large amounts of ethanol eating away the metallic strip on the fuel level sender. Your X3 would say you have 60 miles remaining and just sputter and die, the tank being bone dry.

Ive come to believe that most regular BMW owners are cheap as everyone else is and put the cheapest 87 gas in they can find, even though the car specifies higher. We had a no name gas station next to my dealer and people would fill up there all the time, go down the road and the car would shut off. The EPA or whoever it was came down to inspect the tanks and found absurdly high levels of ethanol in the tank (+15%)..they were buying the cheapest gas on the market that day that was from some no name supplier that isnt blended properly...we had to put a notice up saying to not buy from the place next door due to poor quality gas.
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      11-11-2010, 07:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Zone View Post
Went to BMW to have my HPFP serviced and overheard another guy having the same rough idle on startup and sputtering acceleration etc. The service manager said that we have bad gas stateside and he would only recommend Shell or BPE gas. So I went to the shell website and did some reading on their fuel and it seems like pretty good stuff. Loaded up on Shell VPower 93 and Im pretty sure my N54 runs way better, better pickup, startup etc. I've been using Sheets, Sunoco and my engine runs like there is sugar in the tank compared to shell. I would highly recommend this gas to N54 owners. Somebody try this stuff out and tell me whether you notice the difference too. Until I get my pump swapped come next visit in a few weeks this gas really make a difference in my opinion.

I don't work for Shell but this stuff is a winner for my N54. Once I get a new pump I'll stick with it.

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa.../about_vpower/


Hope that gas did not smell too bad (what a heading sorry could not help myself)
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      11-11-2010, 08:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Yeah, I noticed that after I tried it a couple of times. What is the link?
Did you mean this one?

CLICK

seams not to work

Try to copy and paste this link then it should work. Great assembly of cars in Vegas I might just go next year

http://www.***********.com/content.p...che-Everything!

Same problem

Try this then .... (when you get to the site DüCKEN = CLICK you can see all the cars, the ladies are also very nice to look at)

This way to the good link
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Life will take us to some interesting places, fortunately The ///M3 will too with a many of us know this very well, now my C6.3 AMG with 487 HP does it too
---> Click here for some good stuff I found

Last edited by Mr. ///M3 RD; 11-11-2010 at 08:48 AM..
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      11-11-2010, 09:39 AM   #21
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Looks like all the other boards are put in the filter... admins afraid for competition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
Did you mean this one?

CLICK

seams not to work

Try to copy and paste this link then it should work. Great assembly of cars in Vegas I might just go next year

http://www.***********.com/content.p...che-Everything!

Same problem

Try this then .... (when you get to the site DüCKEN = CLICK you can see all the cars, the ladies are also very nice to look at)

This way to the good link
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      11-11-2010, 09:46 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
Looks like all the other boards are put in the filter... admins afraid for competition?
Yes looks like it Kris, then we know how to get around it did the last link work for you?
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