Beware style 296 wheels

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

One difference with the style 296 rims is the spoke design. They only connect at the very outside edge of the rim. Most wheels connect more towards the mid section and even ones with outward spokes have material leading into the middle at the connection area. Because of the design, the deep offset, the camber, and the RFTs, the inside edge of the rim gets a lot of flex causing forces. No doubt RFTs contribute to the failures, but I don't think they are the sole cause.

Exactly my point (wheel design and RFT combination) stresses have to go someplace and sooner or later they will release. My problems (on both rear wheels happen during a 13,000 KM US road trip. Part of that trip was thru the Mohave Desert at 120 F degree temperature. I did feel my wheels they were extremely hot 4 days later with 18,000 KM on the clock of my new car I had a flat due to a crack. The wheel was changed in the US and I took it back to Canada (full story later unless BMW will finally pay me my $800.00 back).

More to come later .... Either the news of BMW stepped up to the bar and returned my money .... or full details of the rest of the storey that will be very embarrassing for BMW. I am not taking this laying down, I purchased this car with hard earned money and expected more from a high quality car like this.

I traded our Jaguar Family AWD car in last week for a Mercedes C 350 4MATIC (the plan was to go for the new x3 guess my choice is obvious I am somewhat pissed off with BMW) the Mercedes salesman mentioned we once had RFT and gave it up quite quickly. Then (he went on) we were assured that they much improved so we offered them again and stopped it soon after too many problems

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Thanks for your post as you may know from photos in my Album, my 296 wheels were manufactured by RONAL in October 2008. I did take a series of close up photos (see below) It may very well be just like the the HPFP depending what Manufacturer produced the wheels and when for BMW.

In addition one does not know what people (that have no problems) have for tires on the rims (Bridgestone Generation I. II or III).

When I had my HPFP changed out I asked my Service Advisor "Do you know why this problem surfaced? Was it a poor quality supplier?" In response he just gently nodded. Might be the same whit the wheels made where and when.

I should know early next week if BMW has the curtesy to refund me my $800.00 for wheel and expenses I paid in the US during my vacation last year replacing one of the wheels.

Best to you on getting your money back. My feeling is BMW will do the right thing by you and give you the refund. It makes sense for them to do it on a couple of levels.

1) You've been a true BMW owner/driver for many years - they should reward you patronage;

2) They should recognize that not giving you a refund is short term gain but a long term loss. Years ago I read a book by Joe Girard the self proclaimed "World's Greatest Salesman". It's quite a claim but the fact is that back in the 1980's his lot sold several 1,000 cars each year. His rule was that on average (pre-internet) each person has a sphear of influence of about 250 people. Those are people that know you and come into contact with you on a somewhat frequent basis over a lifespan. Of course that varies from person to person, but that was his rule. If that was true back in the 1980's, your sphear of influence is even greater now. I'm sure BMW recognizes that if they don't refund your $800 not only will they loose whatever good you had towards their company, but you will have a negative impact on their sales to some degree based on the way they treat you. Knowing you Rolf-Dieter, you will talk on the forum and other places about how they mistreated you, a long standing BMW loyalist.

3) If they fail to refund your money that reveals something about their character. Maybe it suggests that different people run the company now than when you bought your first BMW. If that's the case, maybe brand loyalty and establishing good will amongst their customer base is not that important to them anymore. You'll have to decide for yourself, but people's core character (different than personality) is revealed by their actions.

BTW, I've looked over your collection of photos and they are extensive.

Cheers

[MikeChrista]

Originally Posted by ManiacGT

I too have style 296 and have no issues despite some nasty pothole encounters. I'd be interested how many people do not have this issue vs those that do.

Yes, we could do with a poll to try to establish what percentage of owners have the 296 wheels and of those what percentage have had a problem with cracks. In addition, as someone else mentioned, we would probably want to know what tyres were fitted and where they did most of their driving. I have no clue how to set this up, but hopefully someone else on this forum will -

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by MikeChrista

Yes, we could do with a poll to try to establish what percentage of owners have the 296 wheels and of those what percentage have had a problem with cracks. In addition, as someone else mentioned, we would probably want to know what tyres were fitted and where they did most of their driving. I have no clue how to set this up, but hopefully someone else on this forum will -

I managed to post a POLL see

BMW OEM Style 296 Wheel POLL
CLICK

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by taYab

I know that our fellow forum member had cracked wheel with style 296.
Recently I found more than 50% of people driving with 296 in Korea finding cracked wheel for style 296.
In Korea, style 296 is basic wheel for all 35s.
As this is being too much, most dealers in Korea are providing replacement for free.
If you do have bumpy road around you, do not consider 296 wheel on your choice as it is vulnerable to crack easily compare to other z4 wheels.

Do you have a link for the fellows having experienced cracked wheels in Japan? Can you post the link here?

In my search for cracked wheels in Japan I came across this link here, quite frightening to think that this fellow lost his wheel due to a complete crack like the picture shows in the first post of this link .... CLICK FOR THE LINK

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Best to you on getting your money back. My feeling is BMW will do the right thing by you and give you the refund. It makes sense for them to do it on a couple of levels.

1) You've been a true BMW owner/driver for many years - they should reward you patronage;

2) They should recognize that not giving you a refund is short term gain but a long term loss. Years ago I read a book by Joe Girard the self proclaimed "World's Greatest Salesman". It's quite a claim but the fact is that back in the 1980's his lot sold several 1,000 cars each year. His rule was that on average (pre-internet) each person has a sphear of influence of about 250 people. Those are people that know you and come into contact with you on a somewhat frequent basis over a lifespan. Of course that varies from person to person, but that was his rule. If that was true back in the 1980's, your sphear of influence is even greater now. I'm sure BMW recognizes that if they don't refund your $800 not only will they loose whatever good you had towards their company, but you will have a negative impact on their sales to some degree based on the way they treat you. Knowing you Rolf-Dieter, you will talk on the forum and other places about how they mistreated you, a long standing BMW loyalist.

3) If they fail to refund your money that reveals something about their character. Maybe it suggests that different people run the company now than when you bought your first BMW. If that's the case, maybe brand loyalty and establishing good will amongst their customer base is not that important to them anymore. You'll have to decide for yourself, but people's core character (different than personality) is revealed by their actions.

BTW, I've looked over your collection of photos and they are extensive.

Cheers

Thanks for your post

Yes lot's of people will know (that is why I post here to share my grief and hopefully spare them to have the same problem). If BMW does not come up with the money I will create a web site and it will be my signature as long as I have the Z4. That should make the story available to a few thousand people

My lawyer likes to handle this I told him no, I will get more satisfaction by sharing the facts with fellow members here. It should make for interesting reading if BMW does not compensate me. It is not the money it is the principle of the situation. I will let you know once I get the call from BMW.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Best to you on getting your money back. My feeling is BMW will do the right thing by you and give you the refund. It makes sense for them to do it on a couple of levels.

1) You've been a true BMW owner/driver for many years - they should reward you patronage;

2) They should recognize that not giving you a refund is short term gain but a long term loss. Years ago I read a book by Joe Girard the self proclaimed "World's Greatest Salesman". It's quite a claim but the fact is that back in the 1980's his lot sold several 1,000 cars each year. His rule was that on average (pre-internet) each person has a sphear of influence of about 250 people. Those are people that know you and come into contact with you on a somewhat frequent basis over a lifespan. Of course that varies from person to person, but that was his rule. If that was true back in the 1980's, your sphear of influence is even greater now. I'm sure BMW recognizes that if they don't refund your $800 not only will they loose whatever good you had towards their company, but you will have a negative impact on their sales to some degree based on the way they treat you. Knowing you Rolf-Dieter, you will talk on the forum and other places about how they mistreated you, a long standing BMW loyalist.

3) If they fail to refund your money that reveals something about their character. Maybe it suggests that different people run the company now than when you bought your first BMW. If that's the case, maybe brand loyalty and establishing good will amongst their customer base is not that important to them anymore. You'll have to decide for yourself, but people's core character (different than personality) is revealed by their actions.

BTW, I've looked over your collection of photos and they are extensive.

Cheers

teagueAMX

Looks like BMW shot themselves in the foot and advised me that they will not reimburse me for the cracked rear wheel.

I will now develop a web site that will state all of the facts and make it my signature below so that others may click on it and read all about it. The web site will state all of the facts and places including the dealers (less individual names). I will do this so that fellow members here can be on guard rather then giving the matter to my Lawyer (he is been pushing me to take them on). For me this is a matter of principal not the money. The end result of the law suit would return the money to me however, would leave members here in the dark.

So I will publish the facts here and in other forums as well as the local news paper where it all happened, provide the details to The Roundel Magazine (BMW Car Club of America). As well as Facebook and Twitter. I am sure that the details will be read by more then 250 readers. Yes indeed a very poor BMW decision of handling a situation that was not the customers fault but poor handling of the situation by a BMW dealership. Facts and photos to follow, as I said it will be my pleasure to share it with the BMW community.

Cheers,

Rolf-Dieter

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

teagueAMX

Looks like BMW shot themselves in the foot and advised me that they will not reimburse me for the cracked rear wheel.

I will now develop a web site that will state all of the facts and make it my signature below so that others may click on it and read all about it. The web site will state all of the facts and places including the dealers (less individual names). I will do this so that fellow members here can be on guard rather then giving the matter to my Lawyer (he is been pushing me to take them on). For me this is a matter of principal not the money. The end result of the law suit would return the money to me however, would leave members here in the dark.

So I will publish the facts here and in other forums as well as the local news paper where it all happened, provide the details to The Roundel Magazine (BMW Car Club of America). As well as Facebook and Twitter. I am sure that the details will be read by more then 250 readers. Yes indeed a very poor BMW decision of handling a situation that was not the customers fault but poor handling of the situation by a BMW dealership. Facts and photos to follow, as I said it will be my pleasure to share it with the BMW community.

Cheers,

Rolf-Dieter

Rolf-Dieter, I must say that is a great disappointed. Without question, BMW has missed an opportunity to elevate the bar in terms of customer responsiveness and satisfaction. In your case Rolf-Dieter, I really hoped that my past exhibitions of deep cynicism and mistrust would be proven wrong. Unfortunately, your experience only serves to confirm my suspicions.

Given this outcome, I’m glad you chose to handle it sans attorney; otherwise he would have forced a settlement and you would have to sign a non-disclosure agreement as part of the settlement. Fortunately, for many other people you can afford the loss and are able to freely disclose your ill treatment.

As noted above, actions reveal character and BMW has revealed their character - just another car company run by bean counters.

[Vintage]

Rolf-Dieter,

I feel your pain as a BMW loyalist that has purchased numerous of their motorcycles and cars - they made me pay for the HPFP replacement due to "modifications" without proof that any of our mild performance mods caused the failure/problem. The service representative and service manager both flat out said "we have HPFP failure in about 70% of these cars" and "your modifications had nothing to do with the failure but BMW won't pay for it." I know you followed the saga, which is ongoing, but in the end it just makes me sad about BMW.

[HerrK]

Rolf & Vintage,

It is a real pity to hear how bad corporate BMW will treat customers at the defense of their legal department (We will not set presidence with your cases). There used to be a time when the local factory/conpany rep would authorize the dealer to make the repairs, now unfortunately everyone marches to the tune of the legal department. Bad apples on both the customer and dealer side have undoubtedly contributed to this degradation, such that customer loyaltity is no longer valued as in the past. To the younger consumer generations they will never understand. To us older folks well - "The times they are a-changin". Sad indeed.

[Vintage]

well said HerrK,

I still like BMWs, but I use to love them; now they are just nice cars with the same bad corporate environment backing them as with almost any other product

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by HerrK

Rolf & Vintage,

It is a real pity to hear how bad corporate BMW will treat customers at the defense of their legal department (We will not set presidence with your cases). There used to be a time when the local factory/conpany rep would authorize the dealer to make the repairs, now unfortunately everyone marches to the tune of the legal department. Bad apples on both the customer and dealer side have undoubtedly contributed to this degradation, such that customer loyaltity is no longer valued as in the past. To the younger consumer generations they will never understand. To us older folks well - "The times they are a-changin". Sad indeed.

Indeed well said HerrK


I used to love them too now I just use the one I've got unfortunately each time I drive my Z4 I am reminded of the way I was treated at a US BMW dealership and the nightmare trip home over 3,000 KM with a rear wheel that had 2 hairline cracks, cracks that should have been found at the dealership when they drove my car into there garage to check wheel information of the other rear wheel that had cracked and they made me pay for. (full story later). I can say this a joy to drive my Z4 it is no longer with memories like this.

My first BMW was a 1987 535is (photos in my photo albums we still have her and still drive her). Our plan was to completely refurbish that car "as new" it would have taken around $12,000- in original OEM parts and a paint job to do this now that memory car will be sold as is. Further we had in mind to exchange our family car for the new for the new x3 that went by the wayside too and our new family now is a MB C350 4MATIC it even has a spare tire in the trunk

yes indeed my respect/regard for BMW has sunk to an all time low.

[Vintage]

I feel exactly how you do Rolf-Dieter. However, I am afraid that no matter the brand these days, we will all be treated like fools or criminals - even with MB. I will keep the 1977 R100S pictured below, but that will be the only BMW we have after the X5 and Z4 are sold in a couple of years. Maybe my feelings will soften over time but they haven't yet since I was tooled around on the HPFP a few months ago.

[HerrK]

Vintage,

Good lookin MC. Must be fun driven around the "Hill" country - spent a few summers (on the /7) in that area on geo trips while attending Texas Tech. Still have a "77" R100/7 (bought new) & a "77" R100RS which I'm tinkering around with restoring, etc. My 04 R1150RT is my summer daily driver & the Z4 is my winter transport here in frigid SoCal.

[Vintage]

the old gal is a ton of fun and she has lots of, you guessed it, MODIFICATIONS. for me, there is nothing like riding a great older MC on nice roads, well almost nothing like it

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

the old gal is a ton of fun and she has lots of, you guessed it, MODIFICATIONS. for me, there is nothing like riding a great older MC on nice roads, well almost nothing like it

On my cross country road trip last year I meet a bunch of fine Gentlemen at Mount Rushmore, I shared my cracked wheel story with them

Some recommended I should get back on a bike (no cracked wheels there). I told them my wife would kill me and I don't wanna go just yet

a few pictures below.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by ManiacGT

I too have style 296 and have no issues despite some nasty pothole encounters. I'd be interested how many people do not have this issue vs those that do.

MikeChrista & ManiacGT,

Perhaps my 13,000 + 2010 US - Canada road trip had something to do with the premature failure of my rear wheels. One area comes to mind and that us the Mohave Desert. I picked my daughter up from the Vegas airport we then made our way thru the desert to Bishop, California. One spot in the desert (6 feet above sea level was 120 degree F) I felt the wheels they were extremely hot. Perhaps this is why Bridgestone is adding cooling fins to the side wall of there RFT who knows, they certainly don't tell the consumer everything now do they

I am a very cautious and careful driver. I can assure you that there was not a mark on the rims (the kind you expect from pothole damage).

[Vintage]

Rolf-Dieter,

For those on this site that may question you and the "cause," please know that no explanation is needed for me. I have had direct, consistent, and negative interaction with BMWNA too many times to know that you have been wronged, along with many other BMW owners in NA. I truly feel your pain and sadness.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Originally Posted by VintageBMW

Rolf-Dieter,

For those on this site that may question you and the "cause," please know that no explanation is needed for me. I have had direct, consistent, and negative interaction with BMWNA too many times to know that you have been wronged, along with many other BMW owners in NA. I truly feel your pain and sadness.

Thanks for your post Vintage

I had high respect and admiration for a firm like BMW it started early in life when I had my first bike in Germany. Then eventually was able to purchase my first BMW (we still have it e28 535is and it is a beauty). Now of course it has sunk to the very bottom of my list.

I do think however my BMW days are done the Z4 will be my last. 2 of my close friends have been waiting for the final ruling in my case by BMW and now will get something other then a BMW.

My plan was to get the new x3 as our family car it did not happen since we opted for the C350 4Matic instead.

So already BMW has lost 3 loyal customers, they might not care right now ... then time will tell no wonder there popularity is going down hill as far as what customer satisfaction is concerned. I think it is BMW is ranked #203 out of the 371 companies that have a CustomerServiceScoreboard.com rating with an overall score of 35.12 out of a possible 200. This score rates BMW customer service and customer support as Disappointing. As can be seen here on this web site.

Click here for the link

There are many many more Customer Service disappointments as can be seen here ....

Click for the site

I think it is just the tip of the ice berg, it seams that people at BMW think that people like us eventually go away in the mean time they want to look good on the bottom line to there superiors ... you know what I mean. Anyway we are not alone there are many more people out there that have been bitten.

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

Perhaps my 13,000 + 2010 US - Canada road trip had something to do with the premature failure of my rear wheels. One area comes to mind and that us the Mohave Desert. I picked my daughter up from the Vegas airport we then made our way thru the desert to Bishop, California. One spot in the desert (6 feet above sea level was 120 degree F) I felt the wheels they were extremely hot. Perhaps this is why Bridgestone is adding cooling fins to the side wall of there RFT who knows, they certainly don't tell the consumer everything now do they

I am a very cautious and careful driver. I can assure you that there was not a mark on the rims (the kind you expect from pothole damage).

The Z4 does not fit the classic touring GT mold, where one would assume that a cross country trek could happen at the drop of a hat. On the other hand, virtually any modern car should be capable of a fairly long road trip.

Here's the first thing that came to mind when I read your initial wheel damage report: sure it's a highly sophisticated, technologically advanced unit that uses the finest grade lightweight materials, but are we talking about a car with a 250 mile tether? First the HPFP and now the wheels?

Logically, we know that BMW must work through the HPFP issue, and maybe they have accomplished it already. Financially speaking and their reputation can’t take an extended beating and remain intact. It does make one question just how bright some of the BMW exec really are that it’s taken them this long to wake up.

The wheels cracks are a different kind of cat altogether IMO. My belief is that BMW has been selling a “pig in the poke” with full knowledge, but hasn’t had significant negative backlash for a few of reasons.

1) Most people’s commutes are rather limited in duration, especially with high end and exotic cars. People I know who have repeated wheel damage issues typically know right away when they’ve hit a hard bump or pothole and suffered damage.

2) With normal commuting, most people might not see significant stress cracks right away, and likely not within the warranty period. You piled up significant mileage in quick order during your marathon tour that exposed this issue in a very short time frame.

What’s the moral to the story: Shame on BMW execs. They are following the corporate trend of seeking short term profits, and by doing so are squandering a fine reputation that has taken many years to establish.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

teagueAMX,

I do agree with you wholeheartedly. Your thinking is certainly correct. I found in my early years of engineering that top executives main goal was to cut costs in whatever area possible and that in my opinion is the main source of poor quality at the end. What moderated them to do this is what one might ask, well it is the simple fact that they wanted to make there mark at the time they held that position. Not a care in the world about what the ramifications are. There goal was simply to clime up that corporate ladder.

Going back to the once "fine automobile, namely the BMW" The way I see it my trip across the country was merely a more vigorous and extended test drive then the BMW test drive for this kind of car.

This was not my first cross country trip. 12 years ago I traveled an even longer distance in my wife's 300 Series AMG Mercedes from northern Alberta to the Atlantic to attend my daughters wedding then down to Boston and all the way across the country to San Diego, then north to Vancouver and back to Northern Alberta Canada. The car passed this trip with flying colours. So did my e28 BMW 535is on a similar trip. Both those cars are still operating without ills such as fuel pump or wheel problems. In my M3 I undertook several trips Alberta to Ontario (round trip some 7,000 + KM).

My M3 as you know did not have a spare, nor did I need one I never had a flat or any kind of wheel problems.

The saying "They don't build them like they used to anymore" can be used here to express the true meaning of it all. It only proves that cut back measures are in effect even at BMW. It even trickles down to dealerships to me it is an outrage that a BMW dealership in Idaho Falls, Idaho has 4 expensive BMW cars one even exceeding a $100,000- sticker price in the showroom, however, in the service bay they don't have a tire machine to be able to look after there customer needs. Here again we see how a executive made the decision like, "we don't need one with 2 tire shops just down the street"

We all know it is all about the money. We all know the price for goods goes up while the quality goes down. The quality of service too is suffering. In the 70s and 80s we paid a great deal of attention to "Quality Control" and vendor "Quality Audits" I never used a sub vendor if he did not pass our quality program criteria. People in charge at companies like BMW should pay more attention to issues like these not only at the factory also down the line to the dealerships that sell there fine products. If that was the case perhaps my wheel work would have taken place at the BMW dealership since I am sure that the factory would make it a condition that a BMW Dealership/Service Facility must have a tire mounting / removal machine.

[Vintage]

Rolf-Dieter,

A small bit of unsolicited advice, keep the 535is. It is a great car and will only set you back 12 large to fix it up to like new condition, which for a restoration nut like me is not too much for the end result. That car really has nothing to do with the corporate culture of today but a lot more to do with your good memories with your family; besides, I love the way they look.