Z4 dct disapoint CAR and DRIVER

[az34]

Originally Posted by SANguru

once again huh???? 1st dual clutch ferrari was the California. You really should check your facts.

it was'nt call dct at the time,but that was the first clutchless manual trans operate via paddle shift to hit the street.dct precursor for sure.

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by cdeslandes

Testing a car at the track with runflat tires is just silly. I bet the non RFT I put on my Z4 would be worth a full second on that track.

C&D rules are full stock including factory tire options. Its BMW who choses to use RFTs. Fortunately not so for ///Ms.

The only time they tested different tires was on the GT-R a few years back. Nissan offered both OEM options so C&D tested both.

[richard in NC]

As a side note, I am impressed with the X5M time of 3:11.1. I have driven the X6M at the Performance Center. It is a beast on track for sure.

[az34]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

As a side note, I am impressed with the X5M time of 3:11.1. I have driven the X6M at the Performance Center. It is a beast on track for sure.

its a shame the new m5 had'nt been available by the time they made the test it would have give the panamera a hell of a run.

[SANguru]

Originally Posted by az34

it was'nt call dct at the time,but that was the first clutchless manual trans operate via paddle shift to hit the street.dct precursor for sure.

uh.. a sequential box does have a clutch ie F355, 360, and F430. It just controlled by a TCU. It's not called DCT because it not 2 clutches but 1.

[Dr Stig 2]

Originally Posted by SANguru

why is it silly to put street legal cars on a race track??

Not at all "silly" to put a street car on a track. I have taken both my current beemers to the track, and one is an X3 diesel.

IMO it is just "silly" to judge them only on their track performance as that is not what they were intended, designed, bought or actually used for.

BTW - My quotes around the word "silly" is because IMO and FWIW I dont feel comfortable using it in a serious conversation about my cars...

[az34]

Originally Posted by SANguru

uh.. a sequential box does have a clutch ie F355, 360, and F430. It just controlled by a TCU. It's not called DCT because it not 2 clutches but 1.

thanks for the lesson i'll take note,but the subject here was not why,when,or who was the first whit dct. the subject was:have you read C and D road test and what do you think about their bad review on their Z4dct.

[cool4re]

As owner of both Z4 and Ferrari with paddles, I feel the BMW unit is competitive and awesome especially in SPORT + mode. I also have a manual (Lotus) which is loads of fun on weekend drives, but the paddles on modern cars are equally engaging and SUPER fast. For a daily driver, nothing can beat a DCT.

[35iDriver]

Originally Posted by az34

thanks HerrK to clarify the facts this thing have degenerate,but you'd forgot the worse comment when they said: the so-called "manual"mode is a perfect example of false advertising. thats a devastating comment.

Go Google "DCT" and then tell come back and tell us what YOU think about all the good reviews.

You say you are looking to see what people think about this review. Here's my honest thought: I don't give a frogs fat as$$ about this C&D writer's opinion.

The choice I made to go with the DCT is, was and will always be.........the correct one.

I am however sorry to hear that your wife dominates the vehicle transmission choices in your family.

[Wraith.]

"I like to visit here since the Z4 experience (my long trip in my former Z4 35is)"

.... would that be the 2009 Z4 35is Rolf?

[SANguru]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

As a side note, I am impressed with the X5M time of 3:11.1. I have driven the X6M at the Performance Center. It is a beast on track for sure.

weight is a huge enemy and you can only hide so much of it.

[juhap]

Originally Posted by cool4re

As owner of both Z4 and Ferrari with paddles, I feel the BMW unit is competitive and awesome especially in SPORT + mode. I also have a manual (Lotus) which is loads of fun on weekend drives, but the paddles on modern cars are equally engaging and SUPER fast. For a daily driver, nothing can beat a DCT.

Well, I won't quote Clarkson's (et al.) opinion on the Modena's gear box as this thread already seems to be heading towards the personal attacks territory. It's a personal preference, so nobody's going to win this argument. Both options have their pros and cons.

I'd be more interested in hearing how the hell did the E89 beat the Z4M.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

As a side note, I am impressed with the X5M time of 3:11.1. I have driven the X6M at the Performance Center. It is a beast on track for sure.

On the flipside, it's really annoying that BMW didn't make the Z4 faster, if a crazy SUV (or SAV using their mumbo-jumbo) can almost catch up w/ it on the track. BMW always seem to neglect its Z line in terms of performance that could have been waaaay better, back to the Z3, and e85 Z4 (reg trim) vs the N54 that was first given to the 335 to make it faster/same. Of course, our e89 could have been made faster as well, esp given the huge price bump vs the older model.

[az34]

Originally Posted by tranquility

On the flipside, it's really annoying that BMW didn't make the Z4 faster, if a crazy SUV (or SAV using their mumbo-jumbo) can almost catch up w/ it on the track. BMW always seem to neglect its Z line in terms of performance that could have been waaaay better, back to the Z3, and e85 Z4 (reg trim) vs the N54 that was first given to the 335 to make it faster/same. Of course, our e89 could have been made faster as well, esp given the huge price bump vs the older model.

this is one of the best comments so far on this topic.Thanks Tranquility.

[35iDriver]

Originally Posted by tranquility

On the flipside, it's really annoying that BMW didn't make the Z4 faster, if a crazy SUV (or SAV using their mumbo-jumbo) can almost catch up w/ it on the track. BMW always seem to neglect its Z line in terms of performance that could have been waaaay better, back to the Z3, and e85 Z4 (reg trim) vs the N54 that was first given to the 335 to make it faster/same. Of course, our e89 could have been made faster as well, esp given the huge price bump vs the older model.

The vastly superior interior styling and quality, much better exterior styling, more powerful Twin Turbo engine, hard top convertible, and the DCT (if equiped) all justify the higher price of the e89 over the e85, when comparing similiar models (ie. 35i vs 3.0i)

[jimi900]

Originally Posted by az34

thanks to all of you who took the time to search i have to apologize Ferrari did'nt invented dct but i know for sure thei have been the first to used it on a street car (1997 f355f1) but that was'nt the subject of my topic the tread was about all the negative comment C AND D made about their dctz4.

Thisis wrong. the Ferrari "F1 Gearbox" that was launched in the 355 was nothing like a DCT Tranny. It was the first SMG, just like what is used in an F1 car. The eneded this design of tranny in the 599 GTO and now everything is a DCT. The F1 used a hydralic assist clutch and a normal manual tanny.

Jim

DCT >>>>>MT

and I have driven a Z4 IS on the track a lot, and you cant beat it!

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by 35iDriver

The vastly superior interior styling and quality, much better exterior styling, more powerful Twin Turbo engine, hard top convertible, and the DCT (if equiped) all justify the higher price of the e89 over the e85, when comparing similiar models (ie. 35i vs 3.0i)

I dunno about that, it's still too expensive in terms of bang-for-buck, relatively-speaking.

[GaryRudolph]

Originally Posted by jimi900

]DCT >>>>>MT

and I have driven a Z4 IS on the track a lot, and you cant beat it!

Yah, on the track I've never seen an MT be faster than an SMG/DCT (except for driver differences). With this car, my past M5, etc. I was incredibly faster with those transmissions over a manual.

Now, I prefer a manual from a fun factor, but not a pure track time perspective.

I call the magazine suspect as just not knowing the transmission (or cough... knowing how to drive on a track). i.e. trying to "shift with a side load"

[Roadstergal]

I have always opted for the manual tranny. Back when I was getting ready to order my car, I held off until I could find a dealer that had the dct. It took me a while to find a dealer that had a Z4 with the dct to test drive. This was back in the fall of 2009 so there weren't many Z4's in dealer lots period. I wanted to test drive the car with the new dct before I placed my order. I am all for new technology.

It is really a matter of preference. The dct just did not do it for me. I ended up ordering my car with the 6mt. I have not regretted my decision either. I really feel it is more fun driving with a manual.

Neither choice is right or wrong or better or worse. It is simply a personal preference.

[35iDriver]

Originally Posted by az34

thanks for the lesson i'll take note,but the subject here was not why,when,or who was the first whit dct. the subject was:have you read C and D road test and what do you think about their bad review on their Z4dct.

Have you Googled DCT and pulled up all the POSITIVE reviews yet? I am eager to hear what you think about all the positive articles?

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Oh by the way, this ought to bring out the comments:

2007 Z4 M Coupe 3:11.7

2012 Z4 35is 3:10.4

Despite similar HP, DCT, Runflats, extra weight, understeer, and all, the Z4 is 1.3 seconds quicker!

Richard, was that Z4 ///M lap time from a previous article on the same track?

[teagueAMX]

Originally Posted by juhap

I'd be more interested in hearing how the hell did the E89 beat the Z4M.

Considering, the e89 Z4's brakes, tires and suspension are not outfitted for the track, what's left - the engine.

Watching the video of ZR-1, one notices there are two nice straights where the Vett's tach get's into the 6,500 RPM range, but the rest of the track consists of lower speed turns that require a lot of driver attention and judicious use of the throttle (3500 - 4500 RPM typical).

That's where the n54 TT is at home with plenty of torque. By comparison, the Z4 ///M's engine would have to reach higher in the RPM range through the same turns, likely translating to a less idea gear selection. In spite of the difficulties the e89 had to overcome, my guess is the e89 could slip through with a little more speed and the 35is' overboost function comes in handy on the turn's exit.

In general, today I think the primary difference between a MT and a DCT is not mechanical, but the program control of the DCT. Said another way, program the DCT to operate exactly as a MT i.e., shift up or down only by the driver - we know from the DCTs seen in much higher dollar cars, it is fully capable and can take it just like a MT.