Apple vs. the FBI

[Mr Tonka]

The authorities having access to my personal information is my last concern. It's that access falling in to the hands of others that concerns me. As demonstrated, the encryption on my phone is so strong that I'm ok with keeping ALL of my health, family, security, firearm, insurance, financial, business, password info, etc... in my phone.

Currently, if I leave my phone somewhere and you find it, you can't access any of that info. The effing NSA can't access that info.

But if the back door were written into the iOS, as the FBI has requested, anyone with the proper downloadable shareware software can access anything in my phone. Those are the people I'm worried about.

There is no program or app that can be made to crack aes encryption on current phones. If it was possible it would already exist. It's not possible to do that without backdoor access into the iOS. Once that back door access is available, you can bet your ass that downloadable software and apps will exist all over the place to break into phones.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

The authorities having access to my personal information is my last concern. It's that access falling in to the hands of others that concerns me. As demonstrated, the encryption on my phone is so strong that I'm ok with keeping ALL of my health, family, security, firearm, insurance, financial, business, password info, etc... in my phone.

Currently, if I leave my phone somewhere and you find it, you can't access any of that info. The effing NSA can't access that info.

But if the back door were written into the iOS, as the FBI has requested, anyone with the proper downloadable shareware software can access anything in my phone. Those are the people I'm worried about.

There is no program or app that can be made to crack aes encryption on current phones. If it was possible it would already exist. It's not possible to do that without backdoor access into the iOS. Once that back door access is available, you can bet your ass that downloadable software and apps will exist all over the place to break into phones.

This. My previous response was flippant. This is the real problem. They are not being asked to create a Battering ram, the anuse of which would be easy to detect should it fall into the wrong hands. They are being asked to create a master key. A lock is actually more accurate. And a lock can be picked by others.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Which is highly recognizable. Secretly doing shit behind your back is not.

Aside from breaking down the door with a search warrant, if the police or FBI wanted to enter your home without a master key and without you knowing, don't think they can't do it now. Don't you think they have people with the same skills as locksmiths and can come and go without you knowing it? They may need a search warrant or probable cause to use evidence against you, but you are kidding yourself if you think they can't get in without it being highly recognizable.

If your argument against Apple assisting is that the government will abuse the ability to get into people's phones without legal authority in the future, then you must be worried they are also entering your home without a search warrant.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Aside from breaking down the door with a search warrant, if the police or FBI wanted to enter your home without a master key and without you knowing, don't think they can't do it now. Don't you think they have people with the same skills as locksmiths and can come and go without you knowing it? They may need a search warrant or probable cause to use evidence against you, but you are kidding yourself if you think they can't get in without it being highly recognizable.

If your argument against Apple assisting is that the government will abuse the ability to get into people's phones without legal authority in the future, then you must be worried they are also entering your home without a search warrant.

Sorry. It's HIGHLY unlikely that anyone is getting into my house without me knowing.

Cameras everywhere. Propane back up generator. Battery backup on all tech gear. All of which sends instant emails with pictures to what.... My currently secure iPhone. While also sending video to and offsite server.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

The authorities having access to my personal information is my last concern. It's that access falling in to the hands of others that concerns me. As demonstrated, the encryption on my phone is so strong that I'm ok with keeping ALL of my health, family, security, firearm, insurance, financial, business, password info, etc... in my phone.

Currently, if I leave my phone somewhere and you find it, you can't access any of that info. The effing NSA can't access that info.

But if the back door were written into the iOS, as the FBI has requested, anyone with the proper downloadable shareware software can access anything in my phone. Those are the people I'm worried about.

There is no program or app that can be made to crack aes encryption on current phones. If it was possible it would already exist. It's not possible to do that without backdoor access into the iOS. Once that back door access is available, you can bet your ass that downloadable software and apps will exist all over the place to break into phones.

Well, if it existed, I'm not so sure we would know or the FBI would have access to it if, for example, the Chinese government or ISIS possessed it. Technology is only secure until it isn't. Apple's vetting process didn't stop hundreds of apps in the App Store that were capable of mining personal information so a vulnerability in iOS we don't know about is far from impossible.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Sorry. It's HIGHLY unlikely that anyone is getting into my house without me knowing.

Cameras everywhere. Propane back up generator. Battery backup on all tech gear. All of which sends instant emails with pictures to what.... My currently secure iPhone. While also sending video to and offsite server.

Right, because most of the general population has security cameras everywhere.

[jtodd_fl]

So, the message here is, you may be anally raped one day, so just lubricate your anus to make it easier on whoever may do it? Seems reasonable.
(Pardon the hyperbole, just... That's the impression I get reading all this.)

Edit: also, this IS OT after all.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Well, if it existed, I'm not so sure we would know or the FBI would have access to it if, for example, the Chinese government or ISIS possessed it. Technology is only secure until it isn't. Apple's vetting process didn't stop hundreds of apps in the App Store that were capable of mining personal information so a vulnerability in iOS we don't know about is far from impossible.

There is a big difference between the security concern in your post above and the topic of this thread. Willingly downloading Apps on your phone which unknowingly contain malware is not an iOS vulnerability.

The AES encryption on current smart phones is unbreakable. See previous posts describing how long it would take for 10x all the computers in the world to break AES 128 bit encryption.

A back door which bypasses that encryption will make every iPhone vulnerable to anybody with a computer.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Right, because most of the general population has security cameras everywhere.

Are you saying that people adding inexpensive easy to use security cameras to their homes is decreasing in popularity?

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

So, the message here is, you may be anally raped one day, so just lubricate your anus to make it easier on whoever may do it? Seems reasonable.
(Pardon the hyperbole, just... That's the impression I get reading all this.)

Edit: also, this IS OT after all.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Are you saying that people adding inexpensive easy to use security cameras to their homes is decreasing in popularity?

I didn't say that but don't think the majority of the population have security cameras.

For someone so paranoid it seems odd to have such reliance on a mobile device.

[jtodd_fl]

Interesting perspective on this from a potentially unlikely source. Antonio Scalia in 1987 on a search and seizure case - remarkably siding against law enforcement:

Justice Scalia, however, said, “There is nothing new in the realization that the Constitution sometimes insulates the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all.”

[jtodd_fl]

Amy Davidson, for New Yorker:
It is essential to this story that the order to Apple is not a subpoena: it is issued under the All Writs Act of 1789, which says that federal courts can issue “all writs necessary or appropriate in aid of their respective jurisdictions and agreeable to the usages and principles of law.” Read as a whole, this simply means that judges can tell people to follow the law, but they have to do so in a way that, in itself, respects the law. The Act was written at a time when a lot of the mechanics of the law still had to be worked out. But there are qualifications there: warnings about the writs having to be “appropriate” and “agreeable,” not just to the law but to the law’s “principles.” The government, in its use of the writ now, seems to be treating those caveats as background noise. If it can tell Apple, which has been accused of no wrongdoing, to sit down and write a custom operating system for it, what else could it do?

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I didn't say that but don't think the majority of the population have security cameras.

For someone so paranoid it seems odd to have such reliance on a mobile device.

It's more secure than my computer. :

Sorry, got a run. Headed out to the shooting range. You know gotta sharpen my other paranoia skills? Prepare for the coming invasion? Silent black helicopters and what not.

Paranoid? are you one of those people that think the government is going to take care of everything? I'm sorry, but I'm not one of people. I'm very well aware that my own security and my safety is my responsibility.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by eluded

do you like any west coast companies? I know things on the west coast are notoriously weird, like women can drive, vote and even own land. its crazy town!!!!

Yeah. Not really. Pretty much California leads the way in stupid progressiveness, Oregon in us born isis recruits, and Seattle Washington state in bad coffee. San Diego is OK thanks to the naval base. Rest is why there's a fault line in the earth's crust.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

An all out ban on guns is sure to save at least 30 lives a year. You're all for that too, right?

You mean it'll cause thousands more good people to die not being able to defend themselves the 2.4mm times a year they currently do by owning guns and they turn them in, but the bad guys don't, just like in Mexico. That works.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

I also think master keys to everyone's homes should be available to the government. And access to read all emails in real time. I mean, c'mon, if you're not doing anything wrong you got nothing to hide. Let's go full big brother up in this bitch! What could go wrong. The government would never abuse this sort of power. Right?

They have this two already. And I'm sure you're emails can be downloaded whenever they want by nsa or by the fbi, with a court order.
http://www.knesekguns.com/commercial/Knights-Armament-12-Gauge-MasterKey-96362

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jtodd_fl

Which is highly recognizable. Secretly doing shit behind your back is not.

So you have been criticizing Obama and his nsa Metadata collection which collected all phone everything already? But hacking a dead terrorists phone who's owner say you can hack is sacrilegious. Hmmmm

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You didn't make a false claim but misrepresented a factual claim.

Also, do you really think that the government will just have them delete it and have it all be done with after this one phone? If Apple goes through with this court order it'll set a precedent.

A potential grey area which isn't mentioned a lot, the phone didn't even belong to him. It was a company phone, a phone where local police believes likely has nothing useful or of value to law enforcement on it.

Again, if you guys can actually read ,for the 5th time, the government would only get the phone's data, not the program. Apple would have sole control of that. This is why this is bs.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

He'd of been able to do what he did without a phone at all you know?

Local law enforcement believes that there's likely nothing of value on that phone anyway.

In a twist of irony, hardline conservatives hate big government (with good reason) and want it reduced...unless someone tosses in the word "terrorism" then all of a sudden, government can't be big enough.

Actually law enforcement believes and has evidence there is ano active terrorist cell this guy is working with in the area and their info is on the phone. Without this info they wouldn't have been able to get the court order to open it. And the director of the fbi stated this on TV. I guess NBC didn't cover that and again you just react and reply without reading.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

The authorities having access to my personal information is my last concern. It's that access falling in to the hands of others that concerns me. As demonstrated, the encryption on my phone is so strong that I'm ok with keeping ALL of my health, family, security, firearm, insurance, financial, business, password info, etc... in my phone.

Currently, if I leave my phone somewhere and you find it, you can't access any of that info. The effing NSA can't access that info.

But if the back door were written into the iOS, as the FBI has requested, anyone with the proper downloadable shareware software can access anything in my phone. Those are the people I'm worried about.

There is no program or app that can be made to crack aes encryption on current phones. If it was possible it would already exist. It's not possible to do that without backdoor access into the iOS. Once that back door access is available, you can bet your ass that downloadable software and apps will exist all over the place to break into phones.

So your worry is a sole employee of apple will least the software before destroying it as he's the only one with access to it. Then he will widely distribute it. And the fact that any number of apple employees and former employees can do that now doesn't bother you. But in this case to grab terrorists off our streets its a good thing tot to give the fbi their info amd not the cracking software. Hmmmmm

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Sorry. It's HIGHLY unlikely that anyone is getting into my house without me knowing.

Cameras everywhere. Propane back up generator. Battery backup on all tech gear. All of which sends instant emails with pictures to what.... My currently secure iPhone. While also sending video to and offsite server.

The fbi isn't trying to get in secretly. They broadcasted it on TV. This wouldn't give them the ability to get in your phone or any other phone as I stated multiple times before this post and before you posted several times they would. This means you're a typical liberal ideolog who doesn't listen to facts that contradict the narrative.