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      05-22-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
CedarZ4
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All-Seasons on the Z, Continental DWS vs. General G-MAX?

Living in the North East with winters and some light (occasionally heavy, but I won't be able to get enough clearance anyway regardless of tires) I decided to get a set of Ultra High Performance All-Seasons instead of a dedicated set of Summer/Winter. Just having summers won't do with the cold weather/low temperature we get for a few months. Having winter tires seems silly for the little snow we actually get, and I'd imagine the tire would "expire" before tread is through.

Debating between the Continental DWS or General G-MAX AS 03. Probably not many people have them on their Z, but was wondering if anyone has had any experience with them on different vehicles or in the past. General consensus is, both are great tires, but the DWS have a mushier sidewall while the General could use some noise reduction/comfort increase. Most people say the General is a fantastic tire and comparable to the DWS, especially for the price (Continental owns General now, so being sister tires I'd imagine them using similar if not the same compound). However, I found the tires for $100 difference. The Continental also comes with a $100 Adidas Gift Card, and if we take it for face value, they are the same price.

I like the General more (tread patterns look more aggressive, stiffer sidewall) but I find it hard to convince myself to get the mediocre brand compared to a Big 3 for the same price. (Warranty is 10k less for the General, so the General has to be made inferior intentionally in some way). Additionally, since I went up in size, (18 to 19) and lost about 1/4 inch of sidewall, I'm afraid if I go General, the stiff sidewall along with the less tire buffer will make the ride just as rough as the 18 RFT. Thoughts? Which one would you get?
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      05-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #2
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Personally, I wouldn't be able to accept the loss of traction in summer AND winter.. don't do all seasons man...
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      05-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #3
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So, get all seasons and swap them in the winter. they'll be perfect for what little snow you get and you won't wish you had summer tires in the summer.
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      05-22-2013, 06:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
you won't wish you had summer tires in the summer.
The loss of grip going from an all season to a full summer tire is really noticeable though....
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      05-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
The loss of grip going from an all season to a full summer tire is really noticeable though....
I didnt' make myself clear.. If he gets AS for the winter and then swaps summer tires in the summer, he'll have the pleasure of having good tires in the warm weather.
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      05-22-2013, 06:56 PM   #6
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Makes sense.. another good alternative would be to get a "performance winter" set like whatever the most current equivalent of Blizzak LM-22 RFT is right now in 17"

I really liked those in my old E90. Pretty decent steering feel from the stiff sidewalls for when it was cold but dry and dedicated "winter" tread pattern for when the snow hit Chicagoland.. And winter would be just about the WORST time to change a flat so RFT made sense to me, and going 17" gives more sidewall so it isn't quite as harsh as the 19" RFT
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      05-23-2013, 11:03 PM   #7
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I was pretty set on getting All-Seasons (worked on all the cars I've previously owned, never had any snow related accident, except that one time an officer T-boned me, but I wasn't at fault and that's a story for another day).

However, reading what Nick and JParnes had to say about AS, I'm thinking about just getting a pair of summers for year-round. Is this dumb? I've read horror stories about summer tires performing poorly in cold temperature and snow, but hear me out.

I got the car back in February when it was still really chilly (pretty much the coldest month here short of January). They were on the OEM Potenza Summers. I've driven on them daily since February till now without a problem, even in the cold temperature. Never even occurred to me I was on Summers and should slow it down because it was chilly outside - I just drove how I would normally drive, and sanely when it is raining. I even drove it in the snow once (1-2 inches with a lot of slush?). I did get stuck going up a steep hill because I had to stop. I just rolled backwards until it was flat, and started moving and I got up fine. Again, didn't even know they were Summers until after that night in the snow I decided to check the tires. True, traction could have been better with Winter or even A/S, but it really wasn't that bad if you go slow and drive carefully, as you should anyway regardless of tires. So, are these stories you hear online about summer tires in winter/cold just a freak accident, or should I be concerned? I will only get a few snow days, and on days that it's really bad, I wouldn't be able to drive regardless of tires because of clearance. 50% of the year will be warm weather, and other 50% will be cold weather. I was looking up All Season and the recommended temperature is 40F+.... which is the same as Summers.

Should I just get a set of summers? Tempted... especially since the OEM Potenza Summers worked perfectly fine in cold and snow (once). Or is my desire to get a set of summer performance getting to my head and driving Summers in the Winter = just dumb and dangerous. Already ordered my wheels so I need to make a decision on tires soon because it will be too painful if the wheels arrive and I can't use them!
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      05-24-2013, 08:39 AM   #8
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I get my car out in April and put it away in November. In those extreme ends of my Z4 driving year, I def notice a decrease in grip if I try to take a corner. the rubber on summer tires get's really stiff in cold weather. But let's say you'll drive very conservatively in the winter on summer tires to play it safe. What happens when you have to make an emergency maneuver and can't cut it? NYC has had plenty of snow these last few winters. Is the cost of a set of wheels/tires worth saving if you wreck your car and jack up your insurance rates? My 2 cents.
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      05-24-2013, 09:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarZ4 View Post
Should I just get a set of summers? Tempted... especially since the OEM Potenza Summers worked perfectly fine in cold and snow (once). Or is my desire to get a set of summer performance getting to my head and driving Summers in the Winter = just dumb and dangerous. Already ordered my wheels so I need to make a decision on tires soon because it will be too painful if the wheels arrive and I can't use them!
Three things to consider:

1) As you already know, you can easily use summer performance tires while it is cold and dry outside. They wont grip very well, but they wont surprise you either. I think it is only those competition tires, such as Michelin Sport Cup tires and semi-slicks that are a big no go in cold weather.

2) In snow, on the other hand, summer tires become VERY dangerous. Especially if you attempt driving at higher speeds on highways. So, just be prepared not to drive on those days.

3) You could also consider non-performance summer tires because they are more comfortable and cheaper to replace. They do not offer that ultra sharp control and feel, but are perfect if you like to play alot with DSC=off on a budget.
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      05-24-2013, 06:13 PM   #10
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+1 on the danger of summer tires in snow and slush. I got caught in a late storm with Falken RT215 competition tires several years ago and it was TERRIFYING. I had to drive 15mph for 2hrs to get home

Also +1 on using summer tires when it is cold and dry. I used to ride my motorcycle up to full operating temperature during the winter to minimize issues related to storage. Honestly though, it felt like work instead of fun and I wouldn't recommend this route at all.

There's no way around it Cedar, I think you should have 2 sets of tires. It is like having N54 engine and using 89 octane gas instead of 91 or 93 octane. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should....
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      05-24-2013, 07:39 PM   #11
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Thanks everyone for their suggestions. It was late, now that I am well rested and (sort-of) sane, Summer year-round does sound like a poor idea.

The only thing I have about getting a dedicated set of Winter and Summer is not even the money, but that most Winters only come in 17s... don't want to put some, not-so-aesthetically-pleasing 17 rims. All-Seasons, here I come.

Maybe I'm just all show and no-go, but I can't see myself putting a winter-set on my car for half the year, especially when it will only be useful for at most a weeks worth of time the whole year. Will see how the handling, grip, and traction is on the A/S (maybe Ultra-High Performance A/S won't be that bad. I've read that some A/S ca even give the PSS a run for their money considering A/S). If it's really that bad, then I will spring for some Summers and use A/S for winters.

Thanks for the input everyone.
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      05-25-2013, 12:37 AM   #12
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get some "performance winter" RFT in 18" size. turn in will feel great.
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      05-27-2013, 02:43 AM   #13
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Please, for the love god, do NOT run summer tires in the winter! When I bought my 335i I lived in MA and had to drive the car back from DC, in Feburary, with stock RFT summers. It was terrifying.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and ask you, what is your driving style? If you don't drive really aggressively and you don't take your car to the track, then I think a good set of All Seasons are perfectly fine for your situation. Why increase your expenses (not to mention the big hassle every season) when you won't take advantage of the higher limits offered by summer tires?
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      05-27-2013, 04:27 AM   #14
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I thought about using my stock 18s as winter wheels, but had a hard time finding winter tires in that size.

I regards to my driving style... I don't track the car, but seriously looking into picking up a pre-owned Cayman in the future to track Not the Z, though. I'm normally a pretty aggressive driver, but daily commutes are very relaxed for me. But anyway, I ended up getting a set of A/S DWS. As Morfinx mentioned, I typically don't push the car to its limits even when I do drive aggressively. The times when summer tires will actually be useful will be minimal, and doesn't seem to outweigh the benefits of Ultra High Performance All-Seasons. We'll see, the DWS got pretty good reviews. Hopefully the don't really bother me, with 540 tread rating and 50,000 miles warranty.... Looks like I'll be with them for a while.
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