New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   New 2009 2010 BMW Z4 - ZPOST > BMW Z4 Forum (E89) > 2009-Current Z4 Forum (E89) General Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-19-2011, 12:51 PM   #23
BimmaDrew
Private
United_States
2
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: '01 325 Ci
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Louis area

iTrader: (0)

It's definitely a matter of personal opinion...but now I have an even better performing choice that gets great gas mileage too. This means that I'll still be saving $$ each year as opposed to what I would be paying in gas for the 35i (...and possibly saving more in speeding tickets too). lol
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 01:04 PM   #24
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
That's going to be an eternal waiting period.
Actually, I think it is only a couple years away.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 01:25 PM   #25
skier219
Captain
United_States
607
Rep
969
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i, M2C, Ferrari 328
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I would never pay that much money for a turbo-4. They are nuts.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 01:36 PM   #26
BlueZ4AZ
Go SU
BlueZ4AZ's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
902
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 sDrive35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Actually, I think it is only a couple years away.
Do you have a link to where it states that BMW said that the Z4M is a couple of years away?
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 01:40 PM   #27
Ash83
Major
Ash83's Avatar
United_States
41
Rep
1,177
Posts

Drives: 135i & RS5 (SOLD)/ 18 CTS-V
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoU4 View Post
Still a hefty machine... Curb weight: 3250–3300 lb
+1
__________________
Alpine White, Coral RED , Glacier Silver Aluminum trim, M sport, 6MT, NAV, HiFi, USB-iPod, Bluetooth

Performance: JB4|BMW PE|DP Cosmetics: BMW Sport Pedals|Black Kidney Grill
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 01:51 PM   #28
BlueZ4AZ
Go SU
BlueZ4AZ's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
902
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 sDrive35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmaDrew View Post
It's definitely a matter of personal opinion...but now I have an even better performing choice that gets great gas mileage too. This means that I'll still be saving $$ each year as opposed to what I would be paying in gas for the 35i (...and possibly saving more in speeding tickets too). lol

I definitely would have made the same choice today as I did 2 years ago and gone with the Turbo 6 over the Turbo 4. For me, the additional gas mileage isn't anywhere close to the benefit of the additional power and torque the Turbo 6 has over the Turbo 4.

Last edited by BlueZ4AZ; 08-21-2011 at 08:58 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #29
BimmaDrew
Private
United_States
2
Rep
62
Posts

Drives: '01 325 Ci
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Louis area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
I definitely would have made the same choice today as I did 2 years ago and gone with the Turbo 6 over the Turbo 4. For me, the additional gas mileage isn't anywhere close to the benefit of the additional power and torque the Turbo 6 has over the Turbo 4.

If it was all about gas mileage and saving money I would have gone with a Miata.
Like you said, it's all about personal taste and situations. Although the 35i, the 28i, and the Miata are all on my list, I feel that the 28i is a good fit for someone like me who wants decent power with very good overall package.

The Miata handles incredibly well and has great gas mileage (although the 28i will have better mpg than the Miata), but I want a tad more power, comfort, and luxury too. Don't get me wrong, I would choose the 35i or a Porsche over the 28i if money wasn't an issue, but times a little tighter than I care for...at least it's not too tight where a Miata (or nothing) is my only option.

Anyway, I know I'm not the only one in this situation, otherwise auto makers wouldn't have bothered downsizing their engines like they are starting to do.

To each his own...
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 02:16 PM   #30
BlueZ4AZ
Go SU
BlueZ4AZ's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
902
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 sDrive35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmaDrew View Post
Like you said, it's all about personal taste and situations. Although the 35i, the 28i, and the Miata are all on my list, I feel that the 28i is a good fit for someone like me who wants decent power with very good overall package.

The Miata handles incredibly well and has great gas mileage (although the 28i will have better mpg than the Miata), but I want a tad more power, comfort, and luxury too. Don't get me wrong, I would choose the 35i or a Porsche over the 28i if money wasn't an issue, but times a little tighter than I care for...at least it's not too tight where a Miata (or nothing) is my only option.

Anyway, I know I'm not the only one in this situation, otherwise auto makers wouldn't have bothered downsizing their engines like they are starting to do.

To each his own...
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 02:21 PM   #31
CJ421
Brigadier General
CJ421's Avatar
1450
Rep
4,081
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Blue Bell, PA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
The N20 definitely looks to be an improvement over the aging but reliable N52. I'm looking forward to seeing this in BMW's lineup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
I would never pay that much money for a turbo-4. They are nuts.
Yeah I saw the $50k sticker, for that price I'd want more. It's one of the reasons I didn't even consider an Audi when shopping for cars ...
__________________
2024 BMW M3 Sedan Frozen Pure Grey II/Fjord Blue, 6MT
Past: 2021 Z4 M40i Frozen Grey II/Black Alcantara | 2017 F30 340i Mineral Gray/Coral Red, 6MT | 2011 E92 335i Le Mans Blue/Black, 6MT
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 02:48 PM   #32
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
Do you have a link to where it states that BMW said that the Z4M is a couple of years away?
Nope. That's why I said "I think".

But if you have kept up with SCOTT's info and other prevailing BMW rumors, you will see there is some evidence of it.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 05:56 PM   #33
BlueZ4AZ
Go SU
BlueZ4AZ's Avatar
United_States
33
Rep
902
Posts

Drives: 2009 Z4 sDrive35i
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nope. That's why I said "I think".

But if you have kept up with SCOTT's info and other prevailing BMW rumors, you will see there is some evidence of it.
Sooooooooo, that's a "no" on the link I take it?
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 06:01 PM   #34
bavarian19
General
bavarian19's Avatar
United_States
516
Rep
18,858
Posts

Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

iTrader: (23)

Appreciate 0
      08-19-2011, 09:57 PM   #35
Imola.ZHP
Colonel
Imola.ZHP's Avatar
United_States
129
Rep
2,218
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW i3 BEV EE
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mud Island, TN

iTrader: (0)

$50k for a 4cyl powered car? I just don't know if Americans will buy it. I'm sure it will do fine in other markets though...
__________________

- 2014 CPO i01 BEV Electronaut Edition Capparis White Tera World, '17-
- 2015 CPO i01 BEV Laurel Grey Tera World, '17-
- 2015 i01 REx Laurel Grey Tera World, '15-'17
- 2003 CPO 330i ZHP Imola Red Build 03/03/03, '06-'15
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 02:45 PM   #36
DDS2015
Major
Canada
383
Rep
1,440
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2021 BMW X3  [0.00]
2023 BMW M4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola.ZHP View Post
$50k for a 4cyl powered car? I just don't know if Americans will buy it. I'm sure it will do fine in other markets though...
Considering most 1-series owners think that their cars are FWD, I don't think that this will be a slouch in the sales dept. Actually, I think it will do better than the outgoing engine for two reasons. First reason, better gas milage. Second reason, more power. Sure, there will be, and are, people that think the way you do. But as a whole most people are just badge whores so this probably won't bother them.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 02:55 PM   #37
F87LUV
Lieutenant General
F87LUV's Avatar
United_States
3688
Rep
15,081
Posts

Drives: '16 M2, '23 GT4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2023 Porsche GT4  [5.00]
2016 BMW M2  [8.66]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
Sooooooooo, that's a "no" on the link I take it?
Hey, we'll always have hope right?
__________________
IG: Trackinheels
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 05:06 PM   #38
skier219
Captain
United_States
607
Rep
969
Posts

Drives: X3 M40i, M2C, Ferrari 328
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDS2015 View Post
First reason, better gas milage. Second reason, more power.
I have a lot of experience with turbo-four engines, and my honest opinion is that they are a fool's paradise when it comes down to these two factors.

None of the turbo-fours I have owned over the years have delivered anywhere near their rated MPG in real-world driving, especially under spirited driving. The "throttle tax" is much worse than on larger displacement normally aspirated engines. If you baby them, you can get good MPG. But if driven hard, or driven over a lot of city routes, forget it.

As far as power goes, I own and have owned turbo-four engines that are more powerful than the normally-aspirated straight-six in my Z4. But I would never trade engines with any of those cars. To me, there is a coarseness and lack of refinement in a turbo-four, and it's about 180 degrees from the perfectly balanced and wonderfully smooth straight-six.

Part of what drew me to the Z4 was the legendary BMW straight-six, which has been a nice change of pace from the fours and turbo-fours in my recent sports cars. And that helped justify the price. I probably wouldn't have even looked at the Z4 if it came equipped with a turbo-four. It just wouldn't have been as compelling to me since I have owned turbo-four engines in much cheaper sports cars.

Now, as an example, consider my current SUV, a 2007 Acura RDX. It has a turbo-four rated at 240 HP and 260 ft-lb torque. It's a beast of an engine in terms of power, and based on some recent test drives, it feels a heck of a lot more powerful than the straight-six in the 2011 X3 28i (to be honest, I feel like it gives the 35i a run for the money). But the refinement sucks compared to the X3's engine. In addition to the inherent dynamic characteristics of the inline four cylinder, it's a bit thrashy, the turbo makes the usual cacophony of pumping and whining noises, and the blow-off valve adds an occasional whoosh. It's just not there in terms of refinement.

In terms of mileage, the RDX is rated 22mpg highway, but I can rarely exceed 19mpg on my commute, which is biased to highway driving at 65-75 mph. I drove the X3 28i on the same route, and it got 26mpg, 1mpg better than the window sticker (and on a green car off the lot no less). It confirmed my experience that I can get better mpg with a larger displacement normally aspirated engine that lopes down the highway compared to a frenetic turbo-four that is working fairly hard under the same conditions.

It will be interesting to see if BMW's turbo-four lives up to it's mpg ratings in real-world driving. I don't expect it to, but am open to be proven wrong. As far as refinement goes, however, this is another case where I just wouldn't pay big bucks to get an X3 once it's equipped with the turbo-four. I've been there / done that with turbo-four engines in lower-priced SUVs, and don't see the point of paying the BMW tax for that. Give me the straight-six all the way.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 06:14 PM   #39
MikeTerp
Second Lieutenant
United_States
29
Rep
285
Posts

Drives: 2016 F30/340
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E60orBust View Post
Disappointed at no fuel economy stats.
Well, I have said this before, and will again: expect BMW to post some nice numbers on the EPA highway cycle where they can "drive" the car on the backside of the throttle with no load on the turbo. Do NOT expect anything remotely close to that for any of us in real world driving. Turbos suck gas in any situation where you want any level of performance so my thought is forget whatever the EPA numbers are, you will not be likely to get much better mileage than with the N52 in "real world" driving. A little, yes, but not 5-6 mpg. I am willing to make a bet.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 07:10 PM   #40
Dr Stig 2
Criminally Insane
Dr Stig 2's Avatar
Australia
52
Rep
1,464
Posts

Drives: Like a Demon!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brisbane, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 BMW Z4 35is  [10.00]
2013 BMW X5 30d  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
None of the turbo-fours I have owned over the years have delivered anywhere near their rated MPG in real-world driving, especially under spirited driving. The "throttle tax" is much worse than on larger displacement normally aspirated engines. If you baby them, you can get good MPG. But if driven hard, or driven over a lot of city routes, forget it.
Agree.

I like turbos. You can chose to thrash them or chose to coddle them for great milage.

The two operating modes are mutually exclusive.
I had a Mazda 3 MPS before the Z. 2.3 litre direct injection 4. 190kW, 380Nm torque.
EVen normal driving with a heavy foot, I used more petrol than I do every day in the 35is, and the Z4 is a lot faster and more powerful.

There is no doubt that the weight of the foot is more important in milage claims than anything the standard tests can put forward when it comes to a turbo engine (whether 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 or 16 cylinders).

While our motor manufacturers are set ever higher hurdles from government regulations on CO2 emmissions and mileage claims for their fleet sales, we will see the rise of the turbo / supercharged engine in response.

Just dont believe the best case mileage numbers as being real world.
__________________

Dr Stig
2010 Z4 35is
2011 X3 30d M Sport
Australia
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2011, 08:04 PM   #41
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
7506
Rep
19,370
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by blipit View Post
Link to Scotts comments. I don't believe he has ever mentioned a Z4M.
Actually, I don't have time to look it up:

Here is what I know: There is a ~450hp 6 cylinder motor coming that will be shared across multiple M models. SCOTT has said this much. M3, M4, X3 M, X4 M, have all been mentioned. I think Z4 M has also been mentioned, but I don't remember for sure.

Here is what I believe: This motor will indeed be used in an E89 Z4M.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2011, 01:46 AM   #42
nsquared
[Versatile]
nsquared's Avatar
361
Rep
1,683
Posts

Drives: (S)LOW.
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: California & Utah

iTrader: (2)

Does anyone know what kind of turbo it uses?
__________________
'02 TS E46 330xi - SOLD
'06 SGM E90 325i - SOLD
'13 AW F30 335i ///M-Sport 6MT. OEM(+) - SOLD
'20 AW F87 X3MC - Sold
Current: `23 Chalk G80 M3CX | Ordered: '24 M3CS - Week37 build.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2011, 09:58 AM   #43
tranquility
sportscars only
tranquility's Avatar
Canada
3196
Rep
3,190
Posts

Drives: 2011 Z4 sDrive 35i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montréal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier219 View Post
I would never pay that much money for a turbo-4. They are nuts.
+1

I was quite close to getting the Audi TTS but they were crazy to charge so much for just a 4 cyl (luckily I drove the Z4 before finalizing anything). I thrashed that Audi on my test drive and it just didn't have enough power/smoothness as my 6 cyl. It felt very weak and the a/c took forever to reach operating levels on a hot day.

skier also makes another good point about fuel mileage: a lot of these claimed #s are extremely optimistic for many cars, even including the 6 cyl Z4. Anyway, we're all buying these ranges of cars presumably for sport/luxury factors, not to save some small amount of $...we're not buying Nissan Leafs or Honda Civics here. What's the point of getting a Z4 if one is just going to drive like grandma to optimize fuel mileage?

Besides, how much of a gas savings are we talking about even if the 4 vs 6 cyl mileage gap is actually there? As an example, I have a 5 cent gas savings card that I use whenever I fill up, which seems pretty significant, but on a full tank, all I save is a little over $2....whoopy-do. It definitely isn't enough to make me want to have 2 less cyls.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #44
frunty
New Member
frunty's Avatar
2
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2009 E89 Z4 35i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elemeNtskieru View Post
Does anyone know what kind of turbo it uses?
I've seen some articles saying the N20 engine uses a single twin-scroll turbo manufactured by Mitsubishi.

Link
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2012 z4 review, 2012 z4 reviews, bmw n20, bmw n20 engine, bmw n20 motor, bmw n20 review, bmw n20 reviews, bmw z4 sdrive28i, bmw z4 sdrive28i review, n20 review, n20 reviews, sdrive28i reviews, z4 28i review, z4 28i reviews, z4 n20 review, z4 n20 reviews

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:08 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST