35i shifting and clutch control

[ljkiter]

I just got the hang of driving a manual and learned on my 35i I just purchased. When going from 1>2>etc, Do I have to push the clutch all the way in? I have a clutch stop on order but wanted to verify. I'm currently pushing all the way in to get to 1st but when going to 2>3>etc, I can shift gear by putting the clutch just beneath the biting point and shift without any grinding. Is this bad? I've been in auto all my life and can't be happier with being in a manual!

[Tangent]

Installing a clutch stop was the first thing I did on my Z435i. I adjusted it to just below the point to let the clutch switch allow starting the engine. The way the typical BMW clutch works you're fully disengaged by the point a clutch stop will stop pedal movement anyway. I just went to Lowe's and bought an elevator bolt, a couple of nuts, and furniture pads to make my stop for about $3.50. Been using the same home made stop on my E46 for years.

[paris1]

So I drove sticks for most of my life until recently and have never heard of a clutch stop. I take it it's a device that attaches to the back side of the pedal and creates an artificial "end of travel" just below the engagement point so that the driver doesn't need to waste his time pushing the clutch pedal any further than he has to. Correct?

[ljkiter]

Originally Posted by paris1

So I drove sticks for most of my life until recently and have never heard of a clutch stop. I take it it's a device that attaches to the back side of the pedal and creates an artificial "end of travel" just below the engagement point so that the driver doesn't need to waste his time pushing the clutch pedal any further than he has to. Correct?

Correct, except with the clutch stop, theres still alot of travel room because the engine won't start if all the dead space was removed.

I'm talking more about pushing the clutch just a tad past the engagement point just to be able to shift. It doesn't grind or anything but I was wondering if it would cause premature wear. I'm short so its a pain to have to push it all the way down (even with the clutch stop) when shifting from 2>3>etc. hope that makes sense.

[paris1]

Originally Posted by ljkiter

Correct, except with the clutch stop, theres still alot of travel room because the engine won't start if all the dead space was removed.

I'm talking more about pushing the clutch just a tad past the engagement point just to be able to shift. It doesn't grind or anything but I was wondering if it would cause premature wear. I'm short so its a pain to have to push it all the way down (even with the clutch stop) when shifting from 2>3>etc. hope that makes sense.

That's a tricky one as I suppose it's possible to shift without grinding when the clutch disc is dragging a bit on the flywheel. I think you're going to have to use your intuition and try to be sure you don't get too lazy in reaching far enough into the pedal swing.

[jparnes1]

When you let off on the clutch, you will feel the point at which it starts to engage and see the tach move. That'll give you a feel for how much dead space there is in your car's pedal travel. I wouldn't cut it too close with the clutch stop. Better to err on the safe side. If it's an issue with your leg length, you might have the seat positioned too far back. Try this:

The BMW Performance Center instructors advise the following seat and mirror adjustment procedure:
1) Make a fist with your right hand and place it on top of your head with the thumb down
touching the scalp and the pinky finger up. Raise the seat bottom vertically until the top
of your hand (pinky end) just touches the roof.
2) With the engine off, depress the clutch pedal (or, in the case of automatic transmission,
the brake pedal) fully to the floor – gently, but FULLY. You automatic people, I want you to press HARD on the brake pedal. You won’t break anything. Now, with the pedal depressed, move the lower part of the seat forward or rearward until your knee is slightly bent with the pedal fully depressed.
3) Adjust the reclining seat back mechanism so that you are only slightly reclined from the vertical position.
4) Place either wrist on top of the steering wheel and, if possible in your car, adjust the
steering column length until your arm is very slightly bent at the elbow.
5) Adjust the steering wheel tilt until your have full view of all instruments and the inside of the top of the wheel is just at or above the highest instruments.
6) Adjust the interior mirror so you can see the entire rear windshield.
7) You may have to make some fine scale adjustments at this point, again with your fist on top of your head.
8) To eliminate the blind spot on the left, place the left side of your head against the driver’s door glass and adjust the left outside mirror all the way outward, then adjust the mirror inward until the left side of the vehicle just becomes visible.
9) To eliminate the blind spot on the right, while sitting in the driver’s seat lean to the
right so your head is about in the car’s centerline. Move the right outside mirror all the
way outward, then adjust the mirror inward until the right side of the vehicle just becomes visible.
The mirror setting takes some getting used to, but the instructors say there is absolutely no need to have a reference point on “own car” because it cannot possibly hit you. That’s a valid point.
There’s an easy test to make sure your mirrors are adjusted correctly: When a “bogey” behind you leaves your interior mirror field of view, it should immediately appear in one of the outside mirrors. If it does, your blind spot is now at least mostly eliminated.
Your new driving position may initially appear to be uncomfortable, but that is just because it is new. In time, you will actually find it more comfortable to drive when you can fully control the vehicle. The correct driving position will also be less tiring on long trips, and much safer.

[ljkiter]

Great advice, I'll try it out since this seems pretty standard. I'm pretty comfortable at the moment on long drives and don't have any blind spots.

I'm just wondering if I'll wear anything prematurely if I only push the clutch just past the biting point when shifting. I can shift so much faster and smoother if I barely go past the biting point.

[ljkiter]

looks like you had the same question with no real answer lol. I wonder if i'm messing up the syncros. I'm not trying to be lazy.. just efficient and smooth
http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653981

also.. i learned what money shifting was.. i did it (from 3rd to 2nd but low rpm) a few days ago and the smell of clutch was scary. I thought i destroyed my car but it wasn't too bad and car still feels normal.

This will def help me.
http://www.shortshifter.com/techniques2.htm

[ljkiter]

the clutch stop i got today killed 80% of the dead space which makes be believe I was shifting without harm before. Clutch stop is MUST HAVE!

[Zyal8r]

The Jparnes post should be a sticky.
If you test the engagement point, like he says, I think you will be surprised at how high it is.
After maybe a million shifts I have never had a clutch or transmission problem and I never press the clutch pedal further than necessary. Fast up and down shifts especially heel and toe and double clutching will become instantaneous.

I now have the DCT and I enjoy the perfectly matched revs when shifting down. This too can be overdone. The Porsche manual actually says that brakes are for slowing the car, pads are cheap and easily replaced. The engine is not made for that and downshifts are for getting into the proper gear for the turn exit not for braking. It makes sense and I let the revs drop so that the down shift does not get the revs way up when it downshifts to the lower gear. There is plenty of twin turbo torque to use. Racers may disagree but they are balancing traction and probably go through a lot of engines.
We may tend to overthink some of these things that are basically instinctive.

[ljkiter]

I agree. The clutch stop did it for me, no worries now. Another question, going from 4th at say 60mph to a stop sign, should I go down to 3>2 or should I just let the engine slowly take me down to say 20 then hit the clutch and brake? I agree, this car has so much torque, I find myself in 3rd gear from 20-50.

[Zyal8r]

Originally Posted by ljkiter

I agree. The clutch stop did it for me, no worries now. Another question, going from 4th at say 60mph to a stop sign, should I go down to 3>2 or should I just let the engine slowly take me down to say 20 then hit the clutch and brake? I agree, this car has so much torque, I find myself in 3rd gear from 20-50.

Good question. You don't want to go too slow in 4th or 5th because the rpm can get too low (below1200), so you might downshift when the revs get down around 1500-2000. Each down shift will get the engine up about 500 rpm more (I think, not sure what the spread is on your manual) until you declutch and stop. Don't hesitate to down shift sooner for fun and practice but again you are using engine revs up and you only get so many.
If you were slowing for a turn instead of a stop you would plan to get into the right gear for the exit speed.
BTW its ok to skip gears especially when up shifting but it is not as much fun and it can get confusing.
The DCT when left in normal, tries to stay in rather high gears and low revs shifting up at between 2000 and 3000 rpm. and doesn't down shift until revs drop way down to 1200 to 1500. Sport and Sport+, up shift at about 3000 rpm unless accelerating hard.
Some say that a lot of stop and go low speed driving in traffic causes the dreaded intake valve deposits and so it is better to leave it in sport.

[ljkiter]

Make sense. With so much torque, I can pretty much stay in 3rd and go as low as 10mph without the shaking. The guy I bought the car from just did a walnut valve cleanse. THanks for the input