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      10-26-2010, 04:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Reading on another board:



Working on confirming the info, but wanted to post first just in case somebody else has heard of it.
Looks like the voice of us North Americans is being heard next the RFT and wheel cracks ... we shall press on ....

ABC will air it at 11:30 tis evening I understand

Reminds me .... why do BMW bearings don't make any noise? .... Squeaky wheel gets the grease ... lets get some grease, we paid for it
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      10-26-2010, 09:36 PM   #24
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NICE!!!


When push came to shove BMW came to their senses. Now lets see if the boys in Munchen can back up Tom Bologas' press release with some decent hardware.
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      10-27-2010, 07:52 AM   #25
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I watched the ABC report. Typical shallow, sensationalistic network "reporting".

But if it forced BMW to publicly acknowledge it has a problem, it's still worth it!
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      10-27-2010, 01:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmorin49 View Post
This type of publicity does not bode well for future resale value.
By the time it comes for us to sell our Z4s in the next few years, this issue should be resolved and will have no effect on resale value.

If someone has to sell their Z4 right now, and has it on the market, immediately following the ABC announcement, then it may effect value.
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      10-27-2010, 02:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
By the time it comes for us to sell our Z4s in the next few years, this issue should be resolved and will have no effect on resale value.

If someone has to sell their Z4 right now, and has it on the market, immediately following the ABC announcement, then it may effect value.
Indeed, look at the return value of the former Z4. Add 4000 to that value based on age and you know what you will get.
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      10-27-2010, 07:46 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
Well, the Bosch guy I met (business related) knows this topic has been discussed internally between Bosch and BMW. He knew tests performed in Germany with qualified fuel were not showing any failures. Failures are, his opinion not mine, caused by (non-allowed) additives or fuel from the bottom of a tank with dirt. The guy is in sales of parts for several suppliers.

I do not know about the rules on tanks in US, but here in Holland there is a minimum level alarm in gas stations so you never can use the last xx % of a tank (segmentation (right word?)). That is regularly filtered/cleaned.
That's interesting. Maybe they are referring to small particulate matter in the US fuel that doesn't existing in Germany?

I believe our fueling stations have leak detection alarms but I don't believe they have alarms to prevent drawing from the bottom of the tank.

On the other hand, I've never really seen a dirty fuel tank. For years I subscribed to the notion that you need to make sure you use all the gas in your car's fuel tank to prevent a lot of dirt and other crud building up in there. I've replaced three or four in-tank fuel pumps and had occasion to open up a few more tanks to replace tank level sending units. One of those cars is one my classic muscle cars dating back to the early 1970's with the original tank. In each case, I've been pleasantly surprise to find absolutely no debris of any kind in the tanks.

Now days, based on good advice from a professional mechanic, I don't let my tank get below 1/4 full. This insures that my in-tank electric fuel pumps don't run dry when I make a turn or climb a hill during my travels.
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Last edited by teagueAMX; 10-28-2010 at 06:37 PM..
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      10-28-2010, 11:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
Indeed, look at the return value of the former Z4. Add 4000 to that value based on age and you know what you will get.
HPFP issue aside for a moment - A 2009 Z4 is going to sell for a lot more than $4k more than a similarly configured 2008. There was a signifigant jump in MSRP and the 2009 is a brand new model, better in many ways.
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      10-28-2010, 11:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueZ4AZ View Post
HPFP issue aside for a moment - A 2009 Z4 is going to sell for a lot more than $4k more than a similarly configured 2008. There was a signifigant jump in MSRP and the 2009 is a brand new model, better in many ways.
Minimum 4000 €
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      10-28-2010, 05:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
Well, the Bosch guy I met (business related) knows this topic has been discussed internally between Bosch and BMW. He knew tests performed in Germany with qualified fuel were not showing any failures. Failures are, his opinion not mine, caused by (non-allowed) additives or fuel from the bottom of a tank with dirt. The guy is in sales of parts for several suppliers.

I do not know about the rules on tanks in US, but here in Holland there is a minimum level alarm in gas stations so you never can use the last xx % of a tank (segmentation (right word?)). That is regularly filtered/cleaned.
there is a fuel filter which is located before the hpfp.
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      10-28-2010, 06:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinaustin View Post
there is a fuel filter which is located before the hpfp.
Of course there is a fuel pump filter, do you know by chance what the filter micron size is? I think in a sophisticated pump like this HPFP the smallest particle can cause problems.

I've read about the finger pointing to fuel in the US etc. I cannot understand how this can be the root cause for the issues on the HPFP.

I mean to say and hope that a BMW Hydraulic Engineer sourcing a fuel pump for the ultimate driving machine better be familiar with fuel, how it is stored, pumped from low level gas stations etc. etc. etc. before giving the green light to install such pump and filter combination be it high or low pressure in this fine automobile.

my 2 cents on the fuel filter or filtration.

Interesting link here and some more comments

CLICK for Link and further comments by others
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      10-28-2010, 08:17 PM   #33
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The fuel in the U.S. gets a worse rap than it deserves. Major brands sell good quality fuel.

The only problem is the presence of ethanol, up to 10% in some markets and now potentially 15%.
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      10-28-2010, 10:25 PM   #34
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I just read that the upcoming 1M will use the N54 twin-turbo...so if this HPFP is such a big prb, what the heck is BMW doing adding yet another model using this engine? Could this be a sign that they think they're close to close the prb? Or on the flip-side, that they ran out of other engines to put into their new models lol.
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      10-29-2010, 03:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeslandes View Post
The fuel in the U.S. gets a worse rap than it deserves. Major brands sell good quality fuel.

The only problem is the presence of ethanol, up to 10% in some markets and now potentially 15%.
All ethanol mixtures above 10% are not good. Lots of manufacturers of engines limit warranty until the 10% mixture.

When you google you see lot of people have problems with this kind of fuel, also people with boats. More dirt in filters, more water in tank etc...

Some examples:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeas...e-engines.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...902057222.html
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      10-29-2010, 08:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
All ethanol mixtures above 10% are not good. Lots of manufacturers of engines limit warranty until the 10% mixture.

When you google you see lot of people have problems with this kind of fuel, also people with boats. More dirt in filters, more water in tank etc...

Some examples:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeas...e-engines.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...902057222.html
Here's the issue with ethanol for modern cars:

1. The net energy contained (BTU) in common ethanol is a little more than 50 percent of gasoline, although octane levels can be as high or higher than gasoline. The lower BTUs presents a problem for modern computer control engines because they are not design to have proper combustion with higher blends of ethanol. On the other hand we can see Brazilian cars have been successfully running on 20 to 25 percent blends. Their law enforced blend changes annually based on the quantity and quality of the sugar cane crop. They also have a 100 percent ethanol prototype running around over there.

2. Ethanol has to ability to absorb fairly high levels of water, so if it sits around for a while it captures water and absorb it.

Looking at the two articles you pointed, one was about fiberglass boats. These boats typically have fiberglass fuel tanks which are intergrated into the fiberglass hull of the boat. The alcohol in ethanol reacts with the fiberglass resins and begins to disintegrate the composite structure. This obviously causes a problem not only for the boat structure but the engine as well because of the debris in the fuel. That scenario would not apply to modern cars.

The other article was produced on 2003. You'll also note that the study was talking about 10 percent of the cars would have an issue with ethanol. No doubt they were referring to older cars which would have issues using ethanol for the reasons noted above, but my guess is they are no longer on the road. Here in the States the Federal Government made an effort to buy older cars to get them off the road.
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      10-29-2010, 10:04 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrisNL View Post
All ethanol mixtures above 10% are not good. Lots of manufacturers of engines limit warranty until the 10% mixture.

When you google you see lot of people have problems with this kind of fuel, also people with boats. More dirt in filters, more water in tank etc...

Some examples:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/northeas...e-engines.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...902057222.html
Agreed. All my power tools (tractor, snowblower, leaf blower, chain saw, cultivator, trimmer - boys need toys ) give me a hard time with 10% blend. I have to put premium gas in for them to even work.
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      10-29-2010, 10:09 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
1. The net energy contained (BTU) in common ethanol is a little more than 50 percent of gasoline, although octane levels can be as high or higher than gasoline. The lower BTUs presents a problem for modern computer control engines because they are not design to have proper combustion with higher blends of ethanol. On the other hand we can see Brazilian cars have been successfully running on 20 to 25 percent blends. Their law enforced blend changes annually based on the quantity and quality of the sugar cane crop. They also have a 100 percent ethanol prototype running around over there.
The problem is not the ethanol in itself - more and more manufacturers design their cars to work with up to 85% ethanol blend (so-called E85 in the U.S.) but the fact that in North America the ethanol comes from corn, a very inefficient process. If one takes into account the lower BTUs in a gallon of ethanol, and adds the energy required to grow the corn and distill it into ethanol, it takes more crude oil to produce a BTU from ethanol than from gasoline. So ethanol in the U.S. actually increases the need to import oil as well as our carbon footprint. 5% to 10% is helpful with smog emissions, anything above is counter productive.

In Brazil, they use sugar cane which has a much higher yield so ethanol makes sense there.
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