Will there be a successor to the Z4?

[CeEl]

Stumbled over this while researching the answer to somebody else's question on the forum about sales numbers:

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/07/16/wi...to-the-bmw-z4/

I really liked the Z3. Ever since I drove one I knew I would one time have a BMW roadster ... took me a while and a couple of car generations, but now I do have one! (Well, the leasing company has one, but close enough!)

[supLOL]

If there is, I hope there's an M version. NOT an "M sport" with a ridiculous amount of M badges that don't mean squat, I mean a PROPER M version.

[CeEl]

In the link to the German web site, they are talking about a sports car platform ... And hint that there may be multiple cars based on it. Electric/hybrid seems to be where they are going. The interview is with the BMW CEO, so it's a bit more than just rumor. But is it more than marketing / vaporware?

[supLOL]

I don't see turning the Z4s successor into a hybrid resulting in anything for BMW. If BMW wants to compete with other cars in the Z4s price range, it either needs to add more performance to the next car, or drop the price. Either way, I'm sorry to see the E89 go. So much potential. But on the subject of a hybrid, it isn't too far-fetched that they would consider it. That seems to be where automakers are headed nowadays. Cars like the 918 Spyder aren't helping either, because that's a hybrid that performs.

[nicknaz]

sadly, probably not since it was the 9th worst selling car in the US in 2012

[supLOL]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

sadly, probably not since it was the 9th worst selling car in the US in 2012

Yeezus, I didn't know it was that bad...why doesn't it sell?!??

I looked up the list. I'm glad the E89 appeared with a GT-R on the same list(; On a more serious note, I'm very surprised. I see GT-Rs all the time. I thought they sold like hotcakes...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by supLOL

Yeezus, I didn't know it was that bad...why doesn't it sell?!??

My speculation is that sport buyers went with the Boxster/cayman/ttrs and luxury buyers went with SLK

[supLOL]

Ahhh. Damn you, Porsche! Damn you for being so good!

[VailM3]

As already stated to compete in this sector they need an M version instead of the 35is. The car sells badly due to value. Nobody is questioning that the Z4 is a great car but its a pretty bad value at its current price point.

Either drop the price or add add additional performance/comfort to the car while keeping prices constant. The new platform sharing coming up with Toyota will hopefully make a more affordable car.

Used however the Z4 is a steal and one of the better values on the used car market.

[stickshifter69]

Poor Z4 gets no love!

[cuddapah]

Originally Posted by supLOL

If there is, I hope there's an M version. NOT an "M sport" with a ridiculous amount of M badges that don't mean squat, I mean a PROPER M version.

+1

[ManiacGT]

If there is a new Z4/2 I won't be buying it. I've had enough issues with this one, and have paid a fortune for it (overpriced and devalues quickly), so I'm not keen to have that experience again. This ones a keeper until its run into the ground.

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by VailM3

As already stated to compete in this sector they need an M version instead of the 35is. The car sells badly due to value. Nobody is questioning that the Z4 is a great car but its a pretty bad value at its current price point.

Either drop the price or add add additional performance/comfort to the car while keeping prices constant.

Not so sure I agree with this when you compare the Z4 35i with it's competitors (Boxster, TT, SLK). Performance vs. SLK? Fuggetaboutit. Vs Boxster? Boxster wins on several counts (not HP or torque) but at a higher price. Vs TT? Please! Who wants to drive that ugly thing? Now, you may say that you can get an M3 for around the cost of a 35is, but that's apples to oranges. I want to drive a roadster, not a sedan. Let's face it, this car is a want, not a need. You will always pay a premium for that.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by VailM3

Either drop the price or add add additional performance/comfort to the car while keeping prices constant. The new platform sharing coming up with Toyota will hopefully make a more affordable car..

Toyota input might also make the car FWD, have a small motor, or be a hybrid

My opinion... keep the drivetrain and add lightness, more cooling and PSS tires from the factory and the car is going to do a lot better in journalist reviews.

[Trex]

While I did not read the German article, perhaps that notion of a "sports car platform" might be interpreted as meaning a four cylinder, front wheel drive car (or electro/hybrid) that can be used by Toyota, BMW and, perhaps, MINI.

That means BMW moves away from the current $50,000 - $60,000+ market. That's ashame if it happens. I thought the market might get more interesting now that Jauguar has returned to the market (although a bit higher) with its roadster. The Z4 seems to be a viable alternative to either a more costly Boxster (are there any no-frill ones on the road?) or the SLK (the bmwblog mentions low sales numbers for them but do they sell ANY?). Porsche does a great job of selling the sizzle but, will the new Boxsters represent value when they are made in the same factory as the VW Golf Cabrio by the very same workers?

If the E89 Z4 made any mistake, I think it was adding the metal top. That moved the Z4 from the Porsche end of the spectrum (being realistic, BMW was not about to build a Boxster Beater) to the SLK end. But, who wanted to be there? The metal top added weight and reduced trunk space (oh, I forgot to add back in the space the Z4 saves by having RFTs). The E85 is a nervous, jumpy, at times, harsh riding car but, it comes in close to 3,000 lbs and two can travel for a few days with three bags or so in the trunk.

As for the Audi TT, I don't put it in the comparison - I don't think either the objective, quantitative numbers are there for comparison nor is the four-wheel-drive-ness subjectively pleasing. It could be easily argued that its lines are less than pleasing. Yes, Audi does a good job of separating the buyer from his/her wallet should there be the need to move up to an RS, etc. but, then you have a very, very pricey Volkeswagen.

I'd hate to see BMW step away from that upper-end (yet afforable) part of the two-seater market. I could easily see a great lineage of future Z4s that are stylish, comfortable and powerful. Maybe not for everyone. But, at least a choice.

[BMWZ4RIDER]

I hope the Z4 lives on. There is nothing on the road like it. There are dozens of Porsche's, Audis, etc that make them vanilla cars that anyone can have and see. I purchased my 09-35i last Sept, 10 months ago and I just saw my 2nd one with 15 miles of my home. The 300 HP Turbo and 300 lbs of torque with the DCT in Sport Plus mode offers me an unbelievable performance package that is more than enough for crusing around and supplies the adreneline rush with some high speed short blasts to soothe the street speed beast in me. The hard top convertible , yes, porky in weight, is the best of both worlds.
I hope BMW keeps improving the Z4 but as a business decision the Germans don't run BMW for charity. The Z is a hard nut to swallow selling only 12+|- Z's per year.

[tranquility]

This thread is taking off on a tangent but just to address our so-called competitors...

Re the Boxster, if one thinks that the Z4 is overpriced, then they should similarly-spec that car. Yes, it's much sportier if you take it to higher limits but realistically will most of us realize that car's potential on the road? The ragtop is just not good and that means going to the Cayman, which will be even more expensive. If one thought that the Z4 is not good 'value-for-$', don't even think about the Porsche(s). When I was shopping, the price gap was ridiculous vs the Cayman, talking about +$27K here, that's just crazy, so not even in the same price range...I dunno why ppl keep lumping these cars together, unless they spec a bargain-basement/no-frills Boxster/Cayman vs a std-spec Z4. They are not even in the same price range!

Re Audi, TTS is probably a better comparison, but who wants to pay just a few thousand less for a 4 banger? The engine was relatively anemic and the A/C sucked when I test drove it in the summer. Just underpowered vs the Z4 35i and from memory, ~$5K cheaper, so not enough of a savings. The North American DM TTRS sucks, we get ripped off w/ only the M/T and no DSG...also, did it come w/ less HP?...I don't remember. Anyway, there may also be some other things and they sold for a premium and that was why I didn't think it was worth it for the price and the long wait.

Re SLK, it's really not that good of a car, the version previously to the latest one was dated already and even though the new one came after the Z4, they still didn't create a superior car, which is puzzling. I think luxury-wise the 2 are comparable and sporty-wise, the Bimmer should still come up on top. Mercs still can't shake its image (at least to me) of an old, well-off, gentleman's car w/ a srs lack of sportiness.

I have to disagree w/ a poster saying that the hardtop was a mistake: that's the only reason I would ever consider a convertible. Softtops just don't cut it anymore (esp w/ today's technology), are less durable, looks like an afterthought and obviously are not as 'luxurious', but practically-speaking, just not good, period, in my books.

I don't mind and actually prefer that our cars are low volume. Who wants something everyone else has...? This will always be a niche car so I find comments such as those about storage space silly. Just like ppl justifying getting a 911 'because of the available backseats' vs the superior handling Cayman....really? I get a sportscar/sporty car because I want to drive fast, I don't care about crazy cupholders and all that other nonsense. However, the storage space is more than enough for 2 ppl's daily lives, yes, even w/ the top down. Anyone that says otherwise is probably shopping a bit too much at Costco lol, j/k.

[tranquility]

Anyway, back on topic, no idea financially-speaking how BMW is doing w/ this car, but they basically forced/pegged the Z into a relatively-high price range for what one gets, but there are still ppl willing to buy it or else this forum wouldn't have any members. Not sure if they are making room for a Z2(?) type to fill the gap but to reflect others' opinions here, I would think that if they made it significantly lighter (few hundred pounds)+just a modest power increase, tweak the suspension/throttle/steering+better tires, etc, they could have a real winner and charge a premium w/o much fuss (then they could magnify that, charge even more for a M version). Isn't our platform even better than the M3's? So much potential being wasted here.

[supLOL]

Judging by what I've heard, the American TT-RS is a total monster. Eh, whatever.

Anyway, I think that they're worried about the M3/M4 sales being affected. Which is a shame, really, because throwing M3 performance into this platform would make for a beast of a car.

[nicknaz]

I heard a slk55 burbling away the other day. I'd love to hear some v8 rumble in the next z! (Not gonna happen but would be awesome!)

[CeEl]

I wouldn't be surprised if they got encouraged by the success of the 1 series. Lots more buyers, and they can offer a wide range from "not so costly" to "expensive" based on more or less the same car.

Who knows, they may be using it for a entry level Z2, a Z2M and maybe even for a Z4.

I didn't double-check, but either one of the articles mentions that it's not only the Z4 but also the SLK etc. that are not selling all too well. I think the Porsche Boxter just had the advantage because it was one of the first one of the "luxury roadsters". If the SLK was already released around the same time, it was really more a traditional "cabrio" or convertible and not so much a fun roadster for the same audience. Now people can chose between relatively many different cars -- in a small market, increasing prices, ... not too much money to be made.

If they really discontinue the Z4, the last model year should get sold out before they even start manufacturing!

[supLOL]

I heard somewhere (don't quote me) they were considering making the Z2 a front wheel drive car.

This is the way I look at the Boxster VS Z4 dilemma.

They are both women. Z4 is the prettier of the two, but she isn't as good in bed as Boxster. Boxster is a little bit more high maintenance and daddy(Porsche) isn't willing to pay for her upkeep.
Now Z4, her dad is great with keeping his daughter maintained at little cost to you. Sadly, Boxster is way more popular. But that's the thing. Everyone's been inside Boxster. Boxster is a little slut. But Z4? She's exclusive.