Views of those who moved from an (e86, M or Si) to an e89

[baege]

So I am contemplating a move back into a Z4 from my 2014 CS. I had a Z4C 3.0SI prior to the CS and find myself longing for the intangible attachment I had to that Z4C that I lack for the CS. The CS is fast, fun and beautiful, but it just doesn't fit or stir me in the same way.

One issue I face though is that Z4C's, M or Si, are getting a big long in the tooth, the newest being a 2008 and I'd rather have a car newer than that.

I am interested in hearing from owners of E86's m or Si who have gone to an Sdrive 3.0i e89. I am not a fan of turbos and I loved the n52 in my Z4C, hence my focus on Sdrive 3.0's. I need to drive one myself of course, but a manual sdrive 3.0 is an amazingly rare creature.

So for those who have made the switch, how does an Sdrive 3.0 compare to an E86 coupe M or Si?

[mbetoni]

This may be a tough question for you to answer, depending on what comparisons you're looking to make. Based on your post though, and coming from a Cayman S, I assume you're speaking about driving characteristics. That in mind:

1. The N52 E89 crowd is small. I DO think there are a few on here though .

2. I think comparing the N52 E89 to an N52 E86 coupe is somewhat fair, though not fully. The E86 is a full-fledged coupe, with rigid body. The E89 may look like a coupe with the top up, but it is not - it's a roadster with a hardtop. It's also heavier than the E86.

3. It is completely unfair to compare an N52 of either E89 or E86 variety to an E86 M Coupe. The E86 M is a completely different animal, S54, track leanings, hard core, basically an out-of-the-box race car that with a few modifications could easily be made into a mostly track car that's still street legal (and this has been done, and done well). I think of all the cars in this conversation, an E86 M Coupe is most directly compared to your Cayman S.

You may do yourself a favor by spending some time on zpost.com. Many (if not most) of the members there are M guys, and quite a few are Moupers. I'd reckon you'd glean some great info by reading through the threads there.

Good luck!

[Fripp64]

Having had an e86 '06 3.0si and now driving an e89 '11 3.0...I'd love to offer a few observations...your opinion may vary

E86- more sporty(stiffer ride), lively, lighter feel when driving and more responsive, more noise, tighter fitting inside

E89- softer ride, more of a touring feel than sporty, roomier and nicer interior, very quiet with the hard top up, better overall looks to me

The E86 was better out of the box on the track than the E89 but I think they're two different animals from the same mother. The E86 was a sprts car with that feel and look and I think the E89 has been designed more as a cruiser.

Here are my two beauties:

[baege]

Thanks for the reply. I figured the e89 n52's are pretty rare.

[baege]

[QUOTE=Fripp64;15806611]Having had an e86 '06 3.0si and now driving an e89 '11 3.0...I'd love to offer a few observations...your opinion may vary

Thanks, appreciate the direct and informed comparison. I was afraid you were going to say that, most reviews seem to concur that the e89 lacks the immediacy and connection of the e85/e86, I am sure I would miss that.

[rking117]

I owned the E85 before moving to the E89 so I did not have the ///M roadster however I did drive the ///M roadster and can say that I didnt think it was that much different than the E85. It was certainly faster than the Old Z suspension was very comparable and braking was too. With that said, I felt like the E89 when i got it was faster then my E85 so i thought it was in the ball park with the ole E86 ////M. There are some things that may concern you but are easily forgotten after you drive around a bit.

1. The E89 has gotten even more away from the roadster feel that we had in the Z3. If you liked the E86 Z4 then I suspect this wont be too harse of a change.
2. The vehicle feels a bit heavier than the E85/86. This too goes away quickly when you step on the gas a little.

Let me jsut say this though, if you really liked your M then I would recomend that you look for a 3.5or even a 3.5is. As for HP and speed you will be int eh same ball park but the seat of the pants dyno doesnt have that much different between the two.

Happy hunting and keep us posted on why you buy.

[nicknaz]

It sounds like you are after a particular "feel" or experience, so it will be hard for any of us to really make a call for you.

Maybe you just need to give your cayman s a bit more time so you can warm up to it...

[Gunzaro]

E86 coupe had the one of the stiffest chassis in the world for a road going car - something like 32,000nm .

Anyone have the figures for the e89?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Fripp64

the E89 has been designed more as a cruiser.

I am in complete agreement with this right now.

I am at buttonwillow and it took me 15 minutes to go from normal engine oil temps to limp mode, and the brakes were starting to fade even before the limp mode

The car is super fun when it is working (DCT shifts very very fast, handling is much improved with minor changes.. dunlop zII in wider size + rear camber and toe settings change) unfortunately that window of when it is working is very narrow. I think for the next year I have the Z I am going to keep it street only where this huge short coming doesn't get exposed and track the 335 instead.

OP, are you really trying to get rid of your 2014 Cayman S for an E89? Can we talk

[Nkc]

I'm interested about why you're not loving your Cayman S. It'd be a car I'd like to move to after the Z4. Could you tell me the pros/cons about CS?

[baege]

Originally Posted by Nkc

I'm interested about why you're not loving your Cayman S. It'd be a car I'd like to move to after the Z4. Could you tell me the pros/cons about CS?

Attachment to and enjoyment of a car are very subjective things, but here's my experience with the CS.

Some context: I loved my Z4C, owned it 4 years which is the longest I'd ever owned a car. I had an intangible attachment to the car, it really fit me, I wanted one badly since the concept came out in 2005. I also liked its driving dynamics, I love the N52, undoubtedly my fave engine to date, so buttery smooth, great throttle response and good low end torque which fits my driving style (I tend not to rev to redline very often) .

I had been following the 981 cayman for sometime as a possible replacement for the Z4C as it aged. In march of 2013 I test drove a 981 boxster S (a PDK no less) and I was hooked on the driving experience, it was the most fun I ever had behind the wheel. The sound, the driving dynamics, the poise and precision. I ordered the cayman 3 weeks later and got it in June of 2013.

When I first got the car I absolutely loved it, just as I had loved the test drive of the boxster, but it was even better since it was a manual. I actually never had so much fun driving a car, Z4C included. I used to go for joy rides and take the long route places which I hadn't done in a long time.

After a few months the shine had dimmed a bit and I realized there were things I preferred about the Z4C:

Asthetics/just something about the car: very subjective, but I always loved the look of my Z4C. I used to walk by the car on the way home from work just to catch a glimpse, I never do that with the cayman. I had an intangible attachment to the Z4C that I lack for the cayman.

Engine: the 3.4 in the Porsche is a smooth nice sounding engine, but it is not as smooth or nice sounding as the n52. It lacks the same buttery feel. The 3.4 is almost coarse in comparison. I'll never forget the first time I experienced a BMW inline six, driving a 330ci back to back with the 350Z I had at the time. The 3.5 in the Nissan sounded and felt horribly coarse compared to the 3.0 BMW. While the contrast between the N52 and the 3.4 in my cayman is not as stark, it's still there. And the 3.4 doesn't really feel all that much quicker at lower rpms around town.

Where the cayman clearly surpasses the Z4C are in the areas of driving dynamics and interior. The cayman feels so good in the twists and turns, poised balanced and so in control. It also has a killer interior.

But in the end, if I could make the switch back to a Z4C right now, especially if we took away the economic consequences of doing so, I would. For me I guess the intangible attachment to the car and it's sweet engine outweigh the better dynamics and interior of the cayman.

I wish they had made an e89 coupe, I would have so got one. At the moment I am contemplating an e89 3.0, not a 3.5 as I don't like turbos, but I need to drive one.

[rking117]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

...I think for the next year I have the Z I am going to keep it street only where this huge short coming doesn't get exposed and track the 335 instead....

I thought that the 335 and the 3.5 Z had the same engine setup, just software differences that affect shift points and such. Not understanding why one would go into limp and not the other. Sounds to me like your engine might have a problem or something that may cause this limp mode to engage.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by rking117

I thought that the 335 and the 3.5 Z had the same engine setup, just software differences that affect shift points and such. Not understanding why one would go into limp and not the other. Sounds to me like your engine might have a problem or something that may cause this limp mode to engage.

The N54 335 and 135 definitely go into limp mode as well. In fact there was also a 135 that went into limp mode on Saturday's track day. It seems that's how it goes with stock N54... when I got the Z4 I mistakenly thought it had the better cooling system from the 335is/1M (and the N55 equipped 135is and F30 335 msport).. whoops on my part

My 335 is F30 version, and just like the later E90 335 it uses the single turbo N55. E89 35i/is as you know use the twin turbo N54 (1 vs. 2 turbos I would think makes a difference in heat generation... )

I'll let you know next time, when I track the F30 335. I've only used the Z435 so far.

Quite possible the F30 335 will limp mode too. That be really annoying.. two "bad" car choices!

EDIT: if you have suggestions for issues to look into for my Z4.. please let me know .. the techs looked it over on Tues when they swapped the HPFP and injectors and there was nothing they could find wrong with the radiators or fans.

[rking117]

I have always solved many issues like these by adding an oil sump pump and larger intercooler so that we are cooling down the oil like we do the coolant. (transmissoin too). If you are also experiencing high coolant temps then you might even have to go to a larger core radiator. It is fixable just have to get the temp down whch is the main cause of the limp mode issue. I would be interested to see how the other cars hold up. I have also hear dof some race car drivers (I am talking pros) using a higher grade oil that has less vicosity. The oil is a little less sticky than our and can cooll down faster. HERE COEMS THE WARNING, by doing so you risk burning cylinder walls or pisitons as you may not have the same level of protection you had before. The pros dont care they will simply rebuild the engine. I suppose if you had a few sponsers that wouldnt matter so much.

[nicknaz]

Agreed, rking117, E89 can be modded with aftermarket and OEM parts to make it work a bit better on the track.

I've thought about it and decided this this just isn't the right platform for track use. Convertible, +500 to +600lbs overweight just isn't a great start

I've posted earlier, the car is great at being a fun street car for top down cruising, and I think it is just better to accept that than dump more money trying to turn it into something that it is not.

[Gpwheels]

Maybe talk to baege. Sounds like you need his porsche, and he needs your BMW.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Gpwheels

Maybe talk to baege. Sounds like you need his porsche, and he needs your BMW.

I've been waiting for his PM