HBO: WestWorld

[shockin330i]

Just went back, its not Logan

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by shockin330i

One of the things people are saying is that perhaps this isn't happening at the same time but rather different timelines, which in a way makes sense. And was that not Logan on a table after the credits?

I was thinking that they had different time lines as well.

I like how episode 5 started with that symbolic story about the greyhound who ended up leaving "captivity" only to immediately kill the rabbit as it had been chasing that fabric for so many years.

Wonder where the coder and the bird story will go. Maybe that coder will be in debt to the hosts and will start helping the technology develop themselves.

[TXSTYLE]

Ok... They lost me last episode...

How is it that the one Latino guy is alive in that town after Ed Harris killed him?

And no one here agrees with me on Delores "hot girl next door" look?

Or the fact she is very Jodie Foster like in her tone and acting?

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Ok... They lost me last episode...

How is it that the one Latino guy is alive in that town after Ed Harris killed him?

And no one here agrees with me on Delores "hot girl next door" look?

Or the fact she is very Jodie Foster like in her tone and acting?

That's what makes me think they are on different timelines....
And yes, she looks amazing..

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

And no one here agrees with me on Delores "hot girl next door" look?

Or the fact she is very Jodie Foster like in her tone and acting?

Dolores was the only thing that kept me coming back each week... but I'm finished trying to like this show. Anthony Hopkins and Thandie Newton weren't even holding my interest. I still can't figure out what's "good" about this show besides Evan Rachel-Wood.

I guess back to Bravo Housewives series for me (not really)

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

Ok... They lost me last episode...

How is it that the one Latino guy is alive in that town after Ed Harris killed him?

And no one here agrees with me on Delores "hot girl next door" look?

Or the fact she is very Jodie Foster like in her tone and acting?

Originally Posted by shockin330i

That's what makes me think they are on different timelines....
And yes, she looks amazing..

The whole two timeline theory relies heavily on the history of the US and if historically accurate may line up or may not.

I explained this earlier (but will kind of update here after thinking more about it) and went back but the theory is that MiB is William 34 years later. Which would make sense being that when William and Logan got off the train, they encountered a Union solider and not the Sheriff. That would place the timeline somewhere ~1861-1685 if we're talking the Civil War. 34 years later would place the park in the correct time frame of the modern "wild west" roughly 1890 though. Dolores is mentioning the Confederatos not being able to give up or accept the defeat. Being that they are still wearing confederate gray uniforms, we can assume it's pretty true to the time frame of post 1865.

Only problem is that MiB, William and Logan have been discussed in the control room with a tech and Stubbs. Also, obviously William has been building some sort of relationship with Dolores. How long does this continue or is there a tipping point? Yet, he rapes her in the first episode and then appears as a flashback when Dolores kills the attacker.

Lawrence was killed roughly 36-48hrs before William and Logan met Alonso so there's also a possibility that livestock scooped him up and changed his Story to fit the "Wyatt" story line. He could definitely be a clone and that Pariah is Arnold's version of the park and Sweetwater is Ford's version (or could be backwards). In what would be the old version of Lawrence, he just seems to be a petty criminal with a family. Unless he turned his life around it possibly wouldnt make any sense.


On the flip side:
The to possibly confirm the two timeline theory... When William and Logan come into the park, there is an older version of the WW logo, the "lobby" is fully function and nice. Not to mention Angela is looking GOOD . lol

Back to episode one, when we see Stubbs go down with Bernard to the lower level to what may appear to the "lobby" where the train pulls in, it is a mess and wrecked.

But as mentioned, Stubbs and the control tech already discussed all 3 of them in the park. This could've been just poor oversight on the script or completely non related. What we do know is that the discussion was very quick and limited to just a quip of a comment.

Another that may contribute to the two timeline period is Wyatt. Ford's reprogramming of Teddy to go back years to the Wyatt storyline does line it up accurately to when Alonso mentions him in Pariah.

I think the Wyatt story is the make or break on everything. It'll line both timelines up if they are indeed separate.

Then there a couple things that dont add up too much:
Maeve's flashbacks to her family and child show the Indians scalping people and coming after her. She then see's the MiB enter the door.. this quite doesnt add up. If she's having flashbacks of the MiB and the time period is correct, there's no possible way that William could be the MiB. Indian wars that raged on for years however for the specific time period the Black Hawk war of 1865-1872 raged on west of the Mississippi. We also hear guest talk about how if you cross the river, shit gets real.

In both timelines the characters know about the Maze. Dolores see's Lawrence's daughter at the time drawing it in the sand but is this before Alonso/Lawrence meets them after he settles down?

Then there is Sizemore's busted story that Ford killed. Did he just implement it anyway? He said that guests will fight their way through some savages and whatever... Teddy is allegedly grabbed by them. Did he take something from the prior playbook years ago or are the Indians in the story just rouge?

What we do know is that absolutely every single detail in this show ties into something bigger. Everything from the bird to the guns used in the time period.

The possibilities are endless but I think as we go further into the show we'll find out if they are indeed showing two time periods.

One thing to keep a listen for are historical references to things specific to the time period is in. Such as current presidents, inventions, clothing, weapons, etc... It would be a god damn shame if HBO didnt consult a historian to at least get the time periods correct.

[patrocle]

Hmm i did not know about this movie, will have to have a look! I love westerns.

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by patrocle

Hmm i did not know about this movie, will have to have a look! I love westerns.

This HBO's current flagship show and based of the 1973 movie, which is also good (but not quite a full western)! You should check out both

[patrocle]

Originally Posted by EALm4

This HBO's current flagship show and based of the 1973 movie, which is also good (but not quite a full western)! You should check out both

I will! Thank you.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by EALm4

The whole two timeline theory relies heavily on the history of the US and if historically accurate may line up or may not.

I explained this earlier (but will kind of update here after thinking more about it) and went back but the theory is that MiB is William 34 years later. Which would make sense being that when William and Logan got off the train, they encountered a Union solider and not the Sheriff. That would place the timeline somewhere ~1861-1685 if we're talking the Civil War. 34 years later would place the park in the correct time frame of the modern "wild west" roughly 1890 though. Dolores is mentioning the Confederatos not being able to give up or accept the defeat. Being that they are still wearing confederate gray uniforms, we can assume it's pretty true to the time frame of post 1865.

Only problem is that MiB, William and Logan have been discussed in the control room with a tech and Stubbs. Also, obviously William has been building some sort of relationship with Dolores. How long does this continue or is there a tipping point? Yet, he rapes her in the first episode and then appears as a flashback when Dolores kills the attacker.

Lawrence was killed roughly 36-48hrs before William and Logan met Alonso so there's also a possibility that livestock scooped him up and changed his Story to fit the "Wyatt" story line. He could definitely be a clone and that Pariah is Arnold's version of the park and Sweetwater is Ford's version (or could be backwards). In what would be the old version of Lawrence, he just seems to be a petty criminal with a family. Unless he turned his life around it possibly wouldnt make any sense.


On the flip side:
The to possibly confirm the two timeline theory... When William and Logan come into the park, there is an older version of the WW logo, the "lobby" is fully function and nice. Not to mention Angela is looking GOOD . lol

Back to episode one, when we see Stubbs go down with Bernard to the lower level to what may appear to the "lobby" where the train pulls in, it is a mess and wrecked.

But as mentioned, Stubbs and the control tech already discussed all 3 of them in the park. This could've been just poor oversight on the script or completely non related. What we do know is that the discussion was very quick and limited to just a quip of a comment.

Another that may contribute to the two timeline period is Wyatt. Ford's reprogramming of Teddy to go back years to the Wyatt storyline does line it up accurately to when Alonso mentions him in Pariah.

I think the Wyatt story is the make or break on everything. It'll line both timelines up if they are indeed separate.

Then there a couple things that dont add up too much:
Maeve's flashbacks to her family and child show the Indians scalping people and coming after her. She then see's the MiB enter the door.. this quite doesnt add up. If she's having flashbacks of the MiB and the time period is correct, there's no possible way that William could be the MiB. Indian wars that raged on for years however for the specific time period the Black Hawk war of 1865-1872 raged on west of the Mississippi. We also hear guest talk about how if you cross the river, shit gets real.

In both timelines the characters know about the Maze. Dolores see's Lawrence's daughter at the time drawing it in the sand but is this before Alonso/Lawrence meets them after he settles down?

Then there is Sizemore's busted story that Ford killed. Did he just implement it anyway? He said that guests will fight their way through some savages and whatever... Teddy is allegedly grabbed by them. Did he take something from the prior playbook years ago or are the Indians in the story just rouge?

What we do know is that absolutely every single detail in this show ties into something bigger. Everything from the bird to the guns used in the time period.

The possibilities are endless but I think as we go further into the show we'll find out if they are indeed showing two time periods.

One thing to keep a listen for are historical references to things specific to the time period is in. Such as current presidents, inventions, clothing, weapons, etc... It would be a god damn shame if HBO didnt consult a historian to at least get the time periods correct.

MIND = BLOWN!



Explain the Hopkins entering the 'grid'... Was he basically letting Harris know that he/Hopkins knows WTF he's/Harris is up to?

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

MIND = BLOWN!



Explain the Hopkins entering the 'grid'... Was he basically letting Harris know that he/Hopkins knows WTF he's/Harris is up to?

The Maze? Kind of hard to say. But it seems to be Ford is aware of what MiB is trying to do and is kind of letting him do his thing because maybe he's confident that the MiB will never find what he's looking for but based on their conversation a few things were pointed out:

MiB - stated that the place needed a "real villain hence my humble contribution". Ford said back to him that he lacked the imagination needed to conceive of someone like him. William's personality makes him the kind of guy who avoids confrontation and doesnt seem to be a character that would be a villain. Things could change though.

Immediately after that MiB says "Now Wyatt... that's something new..is he just another stooge....or have you finally made a worth adversary?"



MiB then continues to ramble on about how the place almost went under but not quite, thanks to him. He also states "Maybe he left something behind". Who knows that that is about. :

After watching some scenes in CC - I've been mistaken about Lawrence and his criminal name is "El Lazo" not "Alonso" my mistake


Now the scene in the rail car with Lawrence, Dolores and William and it alludes to something going on as well.

Here we can see William and Lawrence sitting down in what appears to be the front of the rail car.


Now Dolores is standing over the coffin:


Now when we flip the camera to this point of view to where the front of the rail car would be in the background of the camera shot... William and Lawrence are no longer there.... this is when she says "I'm coming". Maybe it's just her zoned out and a shot of her thinking


You can tell this by looking at the background when Dolores and William first get into the rail car. There appears to be some basket of fruit on the left and bag on the right.



so wtf is going on?!

I'd also keep an eye out for the MiB's knife. Something tells me it has some sort of significance to his character and may have been given to him in the past.

I'd also consider that the dual timeline is correct but that that Logan is the actual MiB and not William. Both are business men, Logan is obviously very high up in the company and has good knowledge of the park and its workings. William's personality is to be the good guy. I wouldnt dismiss that Logan's company could also have the charity that was mentioned in the previous episode by another guest. He also talks business with William here and there about the park hemorrhaging money and how his company is considering buying them out (The MiB did "save" the park). Logan seems to be bored with the park, admits that he hasnt seen all of it and wants to explore something new for a challenge and for business reasons. It could've also turned into an obsession for him. Similar to what the MiB is up to. It may be a far fetched thought but who knows...


Still wayyyy to much going on and maybe too early to tell. Hell, all the above may be even completely wrong. We might even have to wait till the last episode to even get a solid understanding of wtf is the real purpose of the maze and the timeline. This show is set for 5 seasons so there's still plenty to tell.

[TXSTYLE]

I meant the MAZE. Great show without question!

[PoorLurker]

Regarding the multiple timeline - what if William is the MiB?

They are portraying his character as one who is reluctant to really live this type of altered life. Maybe he grows into character of the MiB and has fallen in love with Delores. This is why he has saved her in the past episodes so much.

This may lead to the idea that the end of the maze is the key to get Delores out of the loop and get her to come outside the game to live with William.


Remember that the MiB said that the real world no one has purpose. What is the purpose he wants in the outside world is Delores.

[EALm4]

Originally Posted by PoorLurker

Regarding the multiple timeline - what if William is the MiB?

They are portraying his character as one who is reluctant to really live this type of altered life. Maybe he grows into character of the MiB and has fallen in love with Delores. This is why he has saved her in the past episodes so much.

This may lead to the idea that the end of the maze is the key to get Delores out of the loop and get her to come outside the game to live with William.


Remember that the MiB said that the real world no one has purpose. What is the purpose he wants in the outside world is Delores.

Possibly. Read some of my theories.... I do think there is a multiple timeline but there's just a lot of things that dont add up right now.

Personally, I think the show will keep everyone guessing all the details till the last episode with a bitching cliffhanger, classic HBO style. lol

[ashtaron14]

SPOILER ALERT!!!












My reaction to Bernard finding out that he was a host, was actually similar to him saving "What me a host? But my son..."

"That's enough Bernard"

This place is damn F'ed up

[Vortexginge]

Loved the original Movie, great concept and i remember it left me with a kind of haunting feeling!
Would like to see the series....and i will when i finally get my finger out and watch the rest of game of thrones

[EALm4]

The thought of him being a host crossed my mind for maybe .0000000000000001 seconds. Even when him and Teresa were at the "house" and she said something about the door and he was like "what door" I didnt even think anything of it. I mean come on it was dark and he was looking at something else.

Based on the conversations Ford has had with Teresa, I absolutely think he's printing the host replacement of her in his lab. If she went completely missing and the board director, Hale, didnt notice, that'd be a damn shame and hole in the plot.

Which brings me to - if Ford does print a host Teresa, that would mean he's pretty much done that to the other people of her position that rotate out. I think the only way he's getting away with some of this stuff is that people in Teresa's position are able to go back up and convince the board that what Ford is doing is fine and safe, then to turn a blind eye to it. If that is the case, then Ford has been releasing these hosts into the real world for years.

I want to know what happened to Elise. I read there is some speculation that Bernard could've killed her but I highly doubt that is possible unless hours went by after her last phone call with him and he teleported over there. My guess is Stubbs grabbed her but even that is iffy.

All I know is that Dolores and William's story has me like ZZZZZZZZZZzzzZzzz now.

This is definitely going to be a show with some sort of crazy cliff hanger at the end.

[shockin330i]

Originally Posted by EALm4

The thought of him being a host crossed my mind for maybe .0000000000000001 seconds. Even when him and Teresa were at the "house" and she said something about the door and he was like "what door" I didnt even think anything of it. I mean come on it was dark and he was looking at something else.

Based on the conversations Ford has had with Teresa, I absolutely think he's printing the host replacement of her in his lab. If she went completely missing and the board director, Hale, didnt notice, that'd be a damn shame and hole in the plot.

Which brings me to - if Ford does print a host Teresa, that would mean he's pretty much done that to the other people of her position that rotate out. I think the only way he's getting away with some of this stuff is that people in Teresa's position are able to go back up and convince the board that what Ford is doing is fine and safe, then to turn a blind eye to it. If that is the case, then Ford has been releasing these hosts into the real world for years.

I want to know what happened to Elise. I read there is some speculation that Bernard could've killed her but I highly doubt that is possible unless hours went by after her last phone call with him and he teleported over there. My guess is Stubbs grabbed her but even that is iffy.

All I know is that Dolores and William's story has me like ZZZZZZZZZZzzzZzzz now.

This is definitely going to be a show with some sort of crazy cliff hanger at the end.

That thought crossed my mind too. It's either Teresa or Elise that he's printing out.

[EALm4]

Also in Ep 6, did anyone notice the "host" in the background when Bernard went down to the old terminal?



Homage to the old Gunslinger?

[wrickem]

EALm4

I have to say that I enjoy reading your writeups and theories here more than I ever enjoyed watching the show.

Even though I've pretty much given up on the show, I look forward to and enjoy your posts about it. HBO should pay you a nice salary

[PoorLurker]

Originally Posted by EALm4

The thought of him being a host crossed my mind for maybe .0000000000000001 seconds. Even when him and Teresa were at the "house" and she said something about the door and he was like "what door" I didnt even think anything of it. I mean come on it was dark and he was looking at something else.

Based on the conversations Ford has had with Teresa, I absolutely think he's printing the host replacement of her in his lab. If she went completely missing and the board director, Hale, didnt notice, that'd be a damn shame and hole in the plot.

Which brings me to - if Ford does print a host Teresa, that would mean he's pretty much done that to the other people of her position that rotate out. I think the only way he's getting away with some of this stuff is that people in Teresa's position are able to go back up and convince the board that what Ford is doing is fine and safe, then to turn a blind eye to it. If that is the case, then Ford has been releasing these hosts into the real world for years.

I want to know what happened to Elise. I read there is some speculation that Bernard could've killed her but I highly doubt that is possible unless hours went by after her last phone call with him and he teleported over there. My guess is Stubbs grabbed her but even that is iffy.

All I know is that Dolores and William's story has me like ZZZZZZZZZZzzzZzzz now.

This is definitely going to be a show with some sort of crazy cliff hanger at the end.

Right when he said, "what door?" I knew it. My wife didn't get it until he replied to Theresa with the idea about how the photos mean nothing to him just as all the other hosts have replied.

I think they are making Theresa. Remember when Bernard was so fascinated with all of her reveries? He focused a lot on her during one of their conversations.

Pretty interesting show! I can't wait until next episode!

[EALm4]

Angela