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      01-20-2010, 03:06 PM   #1
cap_freez
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Z4 35is manual 6 ?

hey guys,

Does anyone know if the new Z4 35is will be offered with a 6 speed manual?
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      01-20-2010, 03:14 PM   #2
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No manual available...
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      01-20-2010, 05:21 PM   #3
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That's sad. They say the manual gear box cannot handle the torque of 35is. I am wondering is it true or not? Perhaps BMW guys want to cut the production cost and force us to accept DCT.
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      01-20-2010, 05:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otago View Post
That's sad. They say the manual gear box cannot handle the torque of 35is. I am wondering is it true or not? Perhaps BMW guys want to cut the production cost and force us to accept DCT.
its only 35 horsepower more so that doesnt make sense. Its that they all are moving away from standard shifts. I have had tons of standards over the years, and now have this double clutch transmission. I sure dont feel forced. Its brilliant, and fast.
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      01-21-2010, 01:48 AM   #5
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They also state that the torque is to blame why no manual is available.

With the overboost, it puts 25% more torque to the rear wheels ...
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      01-23-2010, 02:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2000jan View Post
They also state that the torque is to blame why no manual is available.

With the overboost, it puts 25% more torque to the rear wheels ...
Yet the new 335is has a manual. Hmmm....
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      01-23-2010, 03:04 AM   #7
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but if you want a slower Z4, you can buy the s35i or s30i ...
;-)

Get the DCT en enjoy the ride (or buy the manual S35i and JB3)
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      02-13-2010, 03:32 PM   #8
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but it doesn't even have the paddles, only the crummy buttons you find on the auto boxes. does anyone know if at least it shifts left and right instead of push pull?
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      02-13-2010, 04:25 PM   #9
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no - the DCT does have great paddles. it seems this manual v. DCT discussion crops up often on this site. yes, manuals are fun, but they are much slower and less fuel efficient than the DCT; plus, for me the paddles are really fun as they work brilliantly. I also have had many manuals over the years and now that I have experienced the DCT and PDK, I will never look back. for me, it would be like lamenting the change from hand cranking the engine to start the motor to electric starters . . . nothing personal, it is just that sometimes technology and advancement are good - especially in this case
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      02-13-2010, 05:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrboy View Post
but it doesn't even have the paddles, only the crummy buttons you find on the auto boxes. does anyone know if at least it shifts left and right instead of push pull?
what's with all these noob questions?? that info is readily available on BMW's website...
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      02-13-2010, 06:07 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by VintageBMW View Post
no - the DCT does have great paddles. it seems this manual v. DCT discussion crops up often on this site. yes, manuals are fun, but they are much slower and less fuel efficient than the DCT; plus, for me the paddles are really fun as they work brilliantly. I also have had many manuals over the years and now that I have experienced the DCT and PDK, I will never look back. for me, it would be like lamenting the change from hand cranking the engine to start the motor to electric starters . . . nothing personal, it is just that sometimes technology and advancement are good - especially in this case
That is exactly how I feel. I have had a ton of standard cars over the years and loved them. I always felt that they made the car feel like more of a sportscar. Not anymore. I think the dct is brilliant. Its like having three different transmissions depending on your mood. I can see why Ferrari has dropped standard transmissions in favor of these. It has to rank as one of my favorite features of the z4. If you havent tried it out and felt the three different modes, you owe it to give it a try.
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      02-14-2010, 12:50 AM   #12
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I totally agree with Alan, the DCT is amazing. My friends can't believe how fast it shifts...and still keeps the power on while doing it. I'll be heading to the track next month and I can't wait
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      02-14-2010, 12:59 AM   #13
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Tried DCT and didn't like. Will not abandon manual as long as it's available (which may not be that long by the looks of things)
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      02-14-2010, 06:17 AM   #14
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What i want is a Z435is with kerosene lanterns in place of the HID headlights. Band brakes on the drums fore and aft. Steel wheels. Mufflers made of rolled mild steel. Mohair bench seats, non-adjustable. Flat windshields, non-safety glass. Carburetor. Maps in the glove box. Hand-crank windows. Belted tires with inner-tubes. Oh, and must have a canvas top, one-ply, and that must leak. Etc. Etc.

In other words, DCT-deniers, let's go all the way on our nostalgia trip back through automotive history.

Have driven my Z4s35i with DCT exclusively in manual mode since arrival October '09. Drove my '07 E93 335i Step same way for 30 months. Use both paddles and that stick thingee on the center console, whichever is best for driving situation of the moment. Having had many many MT cars in the past, will say that BMW's DCT is a brilliant technology lightyears ahead of any MT. It gets your head out of the car and into driving.

But three buts....

But....you will need a bit of patience in the beginning to get tuned to its rhythm and get your timing right (just like an MT).

But....you need to understand power curves and shift points and know what gear you want to be in (just like an MT). Which is to say that if you are a crappy driver with an MT, you won't be much better with DCT.

But....if you are a true Luddite, none of the above will matter to you.
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      02-14-2010, 06:42 AM   #15
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i think most of us who are nostalgic about the 6 speed really mean to say that we truly appreciate the driver/car melding that comes with a manual. You are in control! Now with the DCT it would appear that this is also the case. you tell the car when to shift and you are engaged in its performance. I am a die-hard manual fan and most likely will not abandon them until forced, but options like the DCT are within my realm of acceptable possibilities. i think i will miss the clutch most of all....
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      02-14-2010, 07:02 AM   #16
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They could always get an Amish carriage.

Me? I prefer the DCT.
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      02-14-2010, 07:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitaryE89 View Post
i think most of us who are nostalgic about the 6 speed really mean to say that we truly appreciate the driver/car melding that comes with a manual. You are in control! Now with the DCT it would appear that this is also the case. you tell the car when to shift and you are engaged in its performance. I am a die-hard manual fan and most likely will not abandon them until forced, but options like the DCT are within my realm of acceptable possibilities. i think i will miss the clutch most of all....
Drove M3s (DCT), M5s, and M6s (both with SMG) for two days in BMW's M-school at Spartanburg in December. The difference in shift speed between the s l o w SMG and the lightning-fast DCT was startling ... and the SMG is at least as fast as the very best MT. So add speed to the list of DCT advantages.

Your comments capture well the virtue of DCT: same control as MT, but better execution.
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      02-14-2010, 09:49 AM   #18
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Thumbs down A Comment in support of MT

Re: DCT versus MT

Everyone will have their own opinion about which is best, but no one has mentioned anything about maintenance or longevity.

I dont buy cars to just get rid of them in a few years.. I enjoy maintaining them and making them "mine."

My most trusted advisor on all things mechanical re BMW's is the one and only Mike Miller (tech advisor for Bimmer Mag and author of the Old School BMW Maintenance Schedule)

To quote him (I hope he doesnt mind) regarding ANY auto trans Mike said this: "I have seen maintained automatics last 200,000 miles. I have also seen un-maintained automatics last 200,000 miles, although both are very rare. There's just no predicting with these transmissions. When you choose to buy an automatic transmission, you also buy into the vagaries of the darn things, which is one reason technicians hate them. Whether to maintain a modern BMW automatic is up to you. I am washing my hands of automatic transmissions – I don’t like them, I don’t buy them, and I don’t mess around with them under the car. At the end of the day, for long-term durability, order the car with a manual gearbox."

With BMW's "lifetime fill" for Trannys and Diffs - I am too wary of these variables that have no logical explanation. I do not want to buy a car and "hope" that I got one with a good transmission. Only to find out I have one that dies the day after the warranty expires. I would rather know that if I maintain my vehicle it will last..

Just my 2 cents.. I love my 6MT.. CLL
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      02-14-2010, 09:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky View Post
But....if you are a true Luddite, none of the above will matter to you.


Why this need to start badmouthing those who prefer to drive a manual? Some of us simply prefer to have more control over the car even if it means we'll end up with a slower and less comfortable ride. It has absolutely nothing to do with luddism. I love new technology, but I also love the kick I get from a perfectly executed heel-and-toe downshift, or the ability to precisely control the amount of wheelspin when accelerating from the lights. (Or hell even rocking the car with the clutch and gas pedals when I'm stuck in snow, which lucklily hardly ever happens.)

However, I do not get a kick from taking a hammer to cars with DCT, which is something true Luddites would do.
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      02-14-2010, 09:54 AM   #20
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One thing the DCT has over manual is left foot braking is a no-brainer. Who needs heel-toe anymore? I trained myself to left foot brake years ago and the stopping reaction is so much quicker. MTs have that clutch-thingy in the way

I do agree that a MT is fun and is still better than a poorly designed SMG.
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      02-14-2010, 10:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LofgrenCL View Post
Re: DCT versus MT

Everyone will have their own opinion about which is best, but no one has mentioned anything about maintenance or longevity.

I dont buy cars to just get rid of them in a few years.. I enjoy maintaining them and making them "mine."

My most trusted advisor on all things mechanical re BMW's is the one and only Mike Miller (tech advisor for Bimmer Mag and author of the Old School BMW Maintenance Schedule)

To quote him (I hope he doesnt mind) regarding ANY auto trans Mike said this: "I have seen maintained automatics last 200,000 miles. I have also seen un-maintained automatics last 200,000 miles, although both are very rare. There's just no predicting with these transmissions. When you choose to buy an automatic transmission, you also buy into the vagaries of the darn things, which is one reason technicians hate them. Whether to maintain a modern BMW automatic is up to you. I am washing my hands of automatic transmissions – I don’t like them, I don’t buy them, and I don’t mess around with them under the car. At the end of the day, for long-term durability, order the car with a manual gearbox."

With BMW's "lifetime fill" for Trannys and Diffs - I am too wary of these variables that have no logical explanation. I do not want to buy a car and "hope" that I got one with a good transmission. Only to find out I have one that dies the day after the warranty expires. I would rather know that if I maintain my vehicle it will last..

Just my 2 cents.. I love my 6MT.. CLL
A few comments on this:

1. The DCT is not an automatic. It is a computer controlled dual clutch manual transmission. Its function, maintenance, and longevity are more like a manual.

2. What about clutch life/maintenance in a manual? The E39 M5 clutch life was notoriously short unless you took ABSOLUTE care 100% of the time in your shifts. 50k miles was good. That means 4 repairs in the same 200k. Replacing the clutch in them was not an easy job either. It's even more time consuming in newer models. Which is the one unknown of the DCT. Namely, what is the clutch life and maintenance of the clutches going to be.

3. The guy's opinion, regardless of how technically knowledgeable he is, is an opinion on the mysteries/difficulties of internal maintenance on automatics, not any opinion on which is the better transmission for the task at hand. It just so happens that the DCT is excellent for around town, spirited driving, and track use. It may not give the satisfaction of the perfect heel/toe shift but its plenty fun in its own way.
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      02-14-2010, 11:13 AM   #22
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i think all in all, this is one of those "agree to disagree" things. we can lament over our personal preferences all day and the virtues of both (and both do have competing superior points) but at the end of the day its preference...
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