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      10-16-2014, 11:49 AM   #1
paris1
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Question Shopping for CPO E89 and need advice!

So the wife and I are looking to replace her aging NC Mazda Miata with a CPO E89 and are just beginning our search. I have been researching the various years and trim levels to death, but would like to get some input from forum members before we go out test driving this weekend.

Specifically, are there certain years, drivetrains, equipment options to avoid? Conversely, are there specific models and options that are "must-haves", bearing in mind that this will be a DD for a 62 year old woman (so the over-boosted six in the 35is is a non-starter!).

What can I expect in negotiating for a CPO car from a dealer? I've bargained plenty for new cars over the years and pretty much know all the tricks, but I've never done a CPO deal before. It seems to me that the CPO concept is a way for the dealer to add value and profit $$ to the transaction and my job is to thread the needle between those two propositions. Example: my wife has identified a car at a local dealership that is listed for $40k. When I run it through KBB (which seems to be the best source of pricing information on CPO models) it appears that the actual market value of the car is maybe 10% lower than that. Has this been the experience of others here who have gone the CPO route. Any and all advice on these matters would be appreciated!
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      10-16-2014, 08:19 PM   #2
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welcome!

First off, E89 is a low volume seller and there is a great lease program on the 2015 right now. Another member posted something like $380/mo lease for a 28i with some good options. I know you wanted CPO and I am not sure if you are just fundamentally adverse to leasing but I wanted to make sure you were aware of these great lease deals

For your original question, if you wife is just looking for styling then I think the 3.0i 6MT model is a great one since it will avoid the possible fuel injector and fuel pump issues of the 35i and 35is

(I am personally biased, and think the N54 + DCT combo is amazing and should at least be test driven before you make your final decision)

Lastly, I would really negotiate hard. The E89 is under appreciated and any example you find on the lot likely has sat for a long time. (My car sat for 6 months so I was able to get a below invoice deal, for example...)
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      10-16-2014, 10:50 PM   #3
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So yes, I am fundamentally opposed to leasing (unless you can write it off for business). We tend to keep our cars for 8 years or so (she's had 2 Miatas over the past 17 years) and the purpose of this exercise is to avoid as much of the steep depreciation curve that BMWs suffer over the first three years as possible.
So tell me about the injector and fuel pump issues on the blown sixes. I've seen hints of this on other posts, but nothing comprehensive in the way of explanation. Why the 6MT and not the 6AT. I know the 7 spd DCT is better (as is the 8AT on the 2.8i), but is the older slushbox that bad? Thanks for your response.
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      10-17-2014, 12:52 PM   #4
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If you get a 2012 or later car, the issue with the high pressure fuel pump is over. If it's pre-2012, you can find out from the service history if the pump was changed. Also, BMW extended the warranty on this part to 10 years, 120K miles for 2009-2011 I believe. Also, be wary of 19" style 296 wheels. The older ones are crack-prone. They were redesigned to address this problem. Otherwise, they are well-made cars IMO, regardless of the complaints you may read here. Problems tend to get magnified on the forums.
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      10-17-2014, 01:30 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
If you get a 2012 or later car, the issue with the high pressure fuel pump is over. If it's pre-2012, you can find out from the service history if the pump was changed. Also, BMW extended the warranty on this part to 10 years, 120K miles for 2009-2011 I believe. Also, be wary of 19" style 296 wheels. The older ones are crack-prone. They were redesigned to address this problem. Otherwise, they are well-made cars IMO, regardless of the complaints you may read here. Problems tend to get magnified on the forums.
Thanks again for your input. The same thing happens on Miata forums, which elsewhere in the universe, are known to be virtually bulletproof! BTW: Back in the 70s I worked for an independent auto parts importer and my two programs were BMW and Mercedes. One of the more noticeable differences between these two back then was that BMW kept putting the same poorly designed parts in their cars year after year, model after model (ie: water pumps, window regulators, mufflers, even engine components like cylinder heads!). Mercedes, on the other hand, was really on top of component failures and, once discovered, they would redesign the part and "campaign" earlier cars that had been delivered with the failure-prone components. It would appear that BMW is doing a better job in that are these days. The only one I ever owned was a 2005 (heavily-smogged) 2002 which was an absolute DOG!

Last edited by paris1; 10-17-2014 at 01:39 PM..
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      10-17-2014, 05:50 PM   #6
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for the 6AT vs 6MT on the 30i, I personally thought the shifts felt slow and rough. I would rather have the 6MT in a 30i

OP, my 2012 has had HPFP and injectors changed at 16k miles, and has had several unplanned dealer visits for the roof and headlights (in fact, I am at the dealer as I type since part of the luggage partition broke off in my hand). Possible I got a lemon, but don't care much since it is a lease and the car is awesome when it there are no issues.
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      10-21-2014, 09:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
If you get a 2012 or later car, the issue with the high pressure fuel pump is over. If it's pre-2012, you can find out from the service history if the pump was changed. Also, BMW extended the warranty on this part to 10 years, 120K miles for 2009-2011 I believe. Also, be wary of 19" style 296 wheels. The older ones are crack-prone. They were redesigned to address this problem. Otherwise, they are well-made cars IMO, regardless of the complaints you may read here. Problems tend to get magnified on the forums.
How would one know which ones are bad? I'm looking at a 2011 with that wheel.
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      10-21-2014, 10:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris1 View Post
How would one know which ones are bad? I'm looking at a 2011 with that wheel.
The newer ones have a beefier section. You'll have to search this forum for pix to compare.
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      10-21-2014, 01:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparnes1 View Post
The newer ones have a beefier section. You'll have to search this forum for pix to compare.
Yes, but what does "newer" mean exactly? It would appear, from what I've read here and elsewhere, that the redesign came around 2012, so the 2011 we looked at probably had the older design. The takeaway I'm getting from all this is that any 19" wheel on the E89 is problematic, the 296 is just the worst of the lot. Too bad, it's a very sexy rim!
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      10-21-2014, 03:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris1 View Post
Yes, but what does "newer" mean exactly? It would appear, from what I've read here and elsewhere, that the redesign came around 2012, so the 2011 we looked at probably had the older design. The takeaway I'm getting from all this is that any 19" wheel on the E89 is problematic, the 296 is just the worst of the lot. Too bad, it's a very sexy rim!
I would stay away from 19's, in my opinion, particularly if the roads in your area are in poor shape. These rims can get damaged more easily and ride quality can suffer (especially if your riding on RFTs).
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      10-21-2014, 07:01 PM   #11
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Must have for me were cold weather package, navigation, and parking assist. I use all three all.the time. I also live my dct.

You don't need the 19's as mentioned before. I would suggest getting another set of NON runflat tires after you purchase. These will be a more comfortable ride.

Best of luck!
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      10-21-2014, 08:05 PM   #12
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Get any z4 in the world except one with wheel style 296.

I just saved you thousands. I have been through 4 of them. Enjoy!
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      10-22-2014, 08:38 AM   #13
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If the rims are the only thing stopping you from your "perfect" car, remember these cars are low volume, you can always upgrade rims...

Lot's of good options out there in the $1000-1800 range

Take the car in for an inspection, have them pull each rim and look at the inner areas - plenty of pictures of what to look for - do a search on "296 cracks"
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      10-22-2014, 10:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurcher View Post
If the rims are the only thing stopping you from your "perfect" car, remember these cars are low volume, you can always upgrade rims...

Lot's of good options out there in the $1000-1800 range

Take the car in for an inspection, have them pull each rim and look at the inner areas - plenty of pictures of what to look for - do a search on "296 cracks"
Actually, I've done a lot of reading lately on the 296 and 19s in general and am ruling them out entirely. I just replaced the 45 series tires on the Miata last weekend and one of the rims was bent from hitting one of the many potholes my wife encounters on her mountain commute. This is not the first time this has happened, so to go from 45 series to 30 series tires (on the rear) of a Z4 with 19" wheels of any type would not be too smart. We like the 293s (which are far more common) and will even consider the base 17" rims with 45 series rubber, although they're not nearly as attractive.
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      10-22-2014, 03:40 PM   #15
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Is this the wheel in question?
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      10-22-2014, 05:36 PM   #16
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      10-22-2014, 06:21 PM   #17
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No! That's the 293. This is 296:
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      10-23-2014, 05:59 AM   #18
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So just to refrain, they are soft and damage easily or there is a defect in the materials?
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      10-23-2014, 09:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
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So just to refrain, they are soft and damage easily or there is a defect in the materials?
It appears to be a design problem that was at least partially remedied around 2012 with a redesign of the rim. In a broader sense though, any time you run a 19" wheel with 30 (on the rear) and 35 series (on the front) tires, it's a recipe for disaster in real world driving conditions.
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      10-23-2014, 10:06 AM   #20
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I think if the tire pressure is maintained the risk is minimize. There is also a newer revision of the 296 wheel with more material in the wheel rim. This shouldn't be a deal breaker. Wheels are so easy to change.
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      10-23-2014, 10:25 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I think if the tire pressure is maintained the risk is minimize. There is also a newer revision of the 296 wheel with more material in the wheel rim. This shouldn't be a deal breaker. Wheels are so easy to change.
What are these like $500 a pop?!
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      10-23-2014, 12:36 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris1 View Post
It appears to be a design problem that was at least partially remedied around 2012 with a redesign of the rim. In a broader sense though, any time you run a 19" wheel with 30 (on the rear) and 35 series (on the front) tires, it's a recipe for disaster in real world driving conditions.
Tell me about it, the wife's new Caddy has 35 series on it and she took out two wheels last winter with ease.
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