Z06 - 1, Z4 - 0

[keepittrill]

Originally Posted by redhot

I have had all sorts of cars specially trucks try to race me. Guess being in a red roadster has its drawbacks...LoL .

Ahhhh, I forgot to mention the trucks. They are TERRIBLE! And yeah, yours would definitely stand out even more being red! I guess living in redneck state has its drawbacks as well! :P

[williakz]

Originally Posted by redhot

...I am not interested in spending $1k over a tune while in warranty...

I've heard this same sentiment over and over. I don't get it. Could you explain to me what being in or out of factory warranty (4 yrs, 50k miles) has to do with ECU tuning programs?

As I understand things, ESS has provision for saving/restoring the factory ECU program, so there should be no issue with scheduled (or even unscheduled) dealer service of your car. So why would you forgo such a major improvement in performance for such a long period of time? I'm assuming cost alone is not an issue as it is less than $20/month over the warranty period? Can you elucidate your thinking for me here? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I still hurt for you and your spanking. Good thing no one but you and the Vette driver knows who won! Oh, wait, you went and told the whole world about your humiliation. I may just have some more questions for you...

[redhot]

Originally Posted by williakz

I've heard this same sentiment over and over. I don't get it. Could you explain to me what being in or out of factory warranty (4 yrs, 50k miles) has to do with ECU tuning programs?

As I understand things, ESS has provision for saving/restoring the factory ECU program, so there should be no issue with scheduled (or even unscheduled) dealer service of your car. So why would you forgo such a major improvement in performance for such a long period of time? I'm assuming cost alone is not an issue as it is less than $20/month over the warranty period? Can you elucidate your thinking for me here? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I still hurt for you and your spanking. Good thing no one but you and the Vette driver knows who won! Oh, wait, you went and told the whole world about your humiliation. I may just have some more questions for you...

Lets just say that I have never had good luck with dealers and getting them to fix an issue, hence for me it is all about mitigating my risk of being on the wrong end of a litigation if one were to arise. If BMW had introduced a factory tune add on, I would jump on it. Until then, will have to wait till I don't have justify my driving habits to my dealer. I have had enough of the problems with roof noise and HVAC and adding the engine / drivetrain to misery is not on my list.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by redhot

...for me it is all about mitigating my risk of being on the wrong end of a litigation if one were to arise.

...will have to wait till I don't have justify my driving habits to my dealer.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be obtuse here, but I STILL don't understand. Are you saying that you have an expectation of legal action against your dealer/BMW, either directly or through Lemon Law provisions? And that this possibility forestalls use of any ECU tuning programs? I thought ESS tunes were wholly reversible in the sense that the original factory ECU program can be reinstalled with a minimum of time and effort. Surely the dealer would be unaware of any tuning program once it had been removed. Are you concerned that, in the event of legal proceedings, you may be deposed and questioned on this matter? Whatever the case, I sympathize with your situation; it must be terrible to have one's freedom to enjoy a beautiful car so constrained by the possible actions of others. Good luck.

[GooDy151]

Originally Posted by Yeggman

I hope you have a lot of time to prove it. If your license plate really says
V8 2WEAK you must spend a lot of time getting schooled by a bunch of different American cars. No wonder you don't like them.

My GC8 run 10sec on 4cylinders which is only half of those V8.
And GC8 actually set up to run road corse on tomei trany and final drive not drag.

My 997 runs mid11 on drag strip on hoosier and doesn't really set up for drag.

Those 2cars can be driven from my house to safeway buying food and grocery easy. also can clock sub2 around thunderhill raceway.

I know that those v8 at drag strip are seriously fast but those v8 guys who hang out do street racing and stuff around where I live are gay and got dust all day long by import.

not only that....
It's seem hard to find low11 or 10 sec car on H pattern V8 driver.
They all go transbrake and automatic shit.

Haven't got smoke by v8 on street yet so I don't know why would I have hard time

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by williakz

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be obtuse here, but I STILL don't understand. Are you saying that you have an expectation of legal action against your dealer/BMW, either directly or through Lemon Law provisions? And that this possibility forestalls use of any ECU tuning programs? I thought ESS tunes were wholly reversible in the sense that the original factory ECU program can be reinstalled with a minimum of time and effort. Surely the dealer would be unaware of any tuning program once it had been removed. Are you concerned that, in the event of legal proceedings, you may be deposed and questioned on this matter? Whatever the case, I sympathize with your situation; it must be terrible to have one's freedom to enjoy a beautiful car so constrained by the possible actions of others. Good luck.

My understanding is that any changes you make are recorded in the ECU and simply "reversing the tune" doesn't delete the history. BMW only sanctions Dinan tunes, so they could have a case if any other aftermarket tune is used. I could be wrong on this - does anyone have any experience with an engine or drivetrain component failing in a tuned car? What was BMW's response?

[nicknaz]

What I've read is that if your car is modded and you have a drivetrain failure then you pay to fix it. Also, other posters have shared that there are ways to detect a tune such as paint marks on Ecu pins or recording the turbine speed of the turbo to check if it is being used at higher than stock boost levels.

I personally wouldn't modify unless I was ready to fully pay for the worst case (engine or gearbox failure). One 335 guy had oil starvation from high g turns at track and another has his meth kit fail and hydrolock the motor. There is always some random thing that can come up!

ashborn, the c7 isn't out yet (the knowledge of the upgraded new model is part of why I didn't go vette this time)

Also, I think you misunderstood me. "I can't wait" because its exciting to have something better to step up to, not that I am unhappy with my current car.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

...
does anyone have any experience with an engine or drivetrain component failing in a tuned car? What was BMW's response?

Good questions! I'll be interested in the responses.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Asbjorn

Anyway, why not work harder to get the car you actually want instead of waiting?

I definitely am. Takes a while ( for me anyway) to achieve a USD 1.5mm car (which is what I actuallywant).

In the meantime I'm happily playing at the 3 series / z4 level.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

What I've read is that if your car is modded and you have a drivetrain failure then you pay to fix it. Also, other posters have shared that there are ways to detect a tune such as paint marks on Ecu pins or recording the turbine speed of the turbo to check if it is being used at higher than stock boost levels.

Whoa there, hoss! Big difference between "modding" by cracking the ECU cabinet and pulling cables versus temporarily plugging in an underdash ODBII device and flashing an ECU tuning map. First, the "pin detection" problem goes away as there are any number of ODBII devices legitimately employed by car owners (even Flo flogs one for Progressive). Second, the ESS tunes I referenced do not, to my knowledge and per ESS claims, overboost the turbos (beyond factory limits) or risk damage to drivetrain components in any way. Finally, the original ECU program map can readily be re-installed in the car with no indication to a BMW dealer that the vehicle was tuned.

Additionally, I would caution against use of the term "modded" when referring to flashed ECU tuning maps as it generally refers to mechanical modification or replacement of intake, exhaust, suspension and/or major vehicle components.

[jparnes1]

"Hoss". I love it! I haven't heard that since I lived in Virginia.

[williakz]

Originally Posted by jparnes1

"Hoss". I love it! I haven't heard that since I lived in Virginia.

That's where I learned it!

[jparnes1]

Originally Posted by williakz

That's where I learned it!

I know some other southern expressions, but I'd get kicked off this forum!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by williakz

Second, the ESS tunes I referenced do not, to my knowledge and per ESS claims, overboost the turbos (beyond factory limits) or risk damage to drivetrain components in any way. Finally, the original ECU program map can readily be re-installed in the car with no indication to a BMW dealer that the vehicle was tuned.

Additionally, I would caution against use of the term "modded" when referring to flashed ECU tuning maps as it generally refers to mechanical modification or replacement of intake, exhaust, suspension and/or major vehicle components.

Number of flashes is counted. Manufacturer can figure it out. Just depends if it is worth their time. I suspect if gearbox or engine replacement is at stake they will look.

you are saying +60 to 100hp via aftermarket ecu reflash isn't modding because nothing mechanical has been changed. Lol. Hope you don't need any power train work done under warranty.

Higher torque and more heat contributes to things breaking. It is very naive to thing you are getting "free hp" without drawbacks.

Btw I personally think that "not overboosted" is deceptive IMHO. Peak boost might be at oem max but if boost target at given rpm is higher than stock that is "over boost"

[williakz]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Number of flashes is counted. Manufacturer can figure it out.

Good info. Thanks.

you are saying +60 to 100hp via aftermarket ecu reflash isn't modding because nothing mechanical has been changed.

I am trying to distinguish between "tuning" (flash reprogramming of ECU parameters) and "modding" (making hardware changes to vehicle). Somewhat similar to the difference between "coding" (changing computer system parameters) and whatever they call it when people swap out radios, seats, replace trim, and add body aerodynamics ("building"?).

Higher torque and more heat contributes to things breaking. It is very naive to think you are getting "free hp" without drawbacks. Btw I personally think that "not overboosted" is deceptive IMHO. Peak boost might be at oem max but if boost target at given rpm is higher than stock that is "over boost"

My interest is in getting ESS or similiar to produce a tuning map that EXACTLY matches the one found in the 35is for application to the 35i. User gets 35is performance for the price of a 35i saving approx. $5,000, and your concerns about drawbacks, overboost, etc. go away since, for all intents and purposes, the tuned car IS "stock."

I do agree that while Stage 1/Stage 2 tunes claim to "do no harm," the reality of engineering compromises is impossible to avoid. That said, there is no evidence I have seen that demonstrates an ESS Stage 1 tune applied to the N54 engine has any deleterious effects. In fact, I have seen many comments (certainly not evidence, but ...) that "boost" levels in the stock 35is are somewhat harsher and more abrupt than those provided in the Stage 1 tune.

[nicknaz]

I hear what you are saying, and I've seen the threads that suggest the N54 and N54T share the same parts and that the 35is and 35i are ECU programming differences

Despite all that "info" we're all still speculating based on realoem.com part numbers.

As far as I know there is no insider who has come out and said "yes the N54 and N54T are truly mechanically the same thing" so to chip the car or not goes down to your risk tolerance and your need for the warranty to pay for things that break

Good example is the 19" "style 296" wheel where forum members have posted pictures of physically different wheel that is thicker near the inside lip but the realoem part number has not changed.

EDIT: +100hp really does sound good though eh....

[mbetoni]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I hear what you are saying, and I've seen the threads that suggest the N54 and N54T share the same parts and that the 35is and 35i are ECU programming differences

I'm confused by this. My understanding is that there is one engine - the N54. It's DI Twin-Turbo inline 6 found in the 35i and 35is across model ranges (until the N55 replaced it in some models). Now, there are variants (as shown on that Wikipedia page I linked to) for different HP outputs, with the 35is getting the higher HP version. Incidentally, this is also the engine in the 1M Coupe, in yet another variation.

What I wonder is why the LCI didn't include the switch to the N55 (with Valvetronic) for the 35 and 35is. For the E85's LCI, engines were upgraded to the newer versions (N52 in my 3.0si vs M54 in my pre-facelift 3.0i).

EDIT: Answered my own question. BMW felt the N54 "suited" this car best.