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      01-11-2011, 09:21 PM   #23
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I find it hard to believe that the X5 will have a 4 cyl engine.
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      01-11-2011, 09:58 PM   #24
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      01-11-2011, 10:17 PM   #25
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Right.

I'll remember that the next time I see an Ultimate Drive Machine commercial.

You can't blame Audi for whatever they make. They only brag about "Truth in Engineering". It might be the slowest little pipsqueak car in the world, but it's truthfully engineered with no pretense about being the "Ultimate".
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      01-11-2011, 10:37 PM   #26
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Plz. jus don't tk my I6 N/A Engine away, and I will b happy.
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      01-11-2011, 11:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
Right.

I'll remember that the next time I see an Ultimate Drive Machine commercial.

You can't blame Audi for whatever they make. They only brag about "Truth in Engineering". It might be the slowest little pipsqueak car in the world, but it's truthfully engineered with no pretense about being the "Ultimate".
I found this quite funny.
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      01-11-2011, 11:20 PM   #28
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This tangent into Audi is quite appropriate because the BMW's turbo 4 will be closer in competition w/ the TT/TTS.
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      01-11-2011, 11:57 PM   #29
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I think this is good news. Obviously BMW is expanding it's competition in the market, needless to mention the 2 other brands they are after, Audi & MB...
On the other hand, I believe this will play good on the co2 emission, with an additional power compare to today's 320 4 cylinders and turtle like acceleration ??!!!
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      01-12-2011, 12:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
I found this quite funny.
Glad to be of service!
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      01-12-2011, 12:59 AM   #31
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Exclamation

I like the change as long as they don't touch the 35i and add 2 more engines to the Z fleet. a 4 cylinders turbo engine is gonna be more powerful than the 6 being used in the 23i, that's for sure ,and the 7 speeds DCT is gonna make it into the 28i which is good news.
I think I'm gonna press the pause button on my order and wait a month or 2
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      01-12-2011, 02:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Good move. More modding potential.

Those na 6-cylinders are basically stuck at factory hp numbers. Not much can be done to gain large amounts of hp, without spending a lot of money.
Exactly. I don't know why some of you are bashing the new engine. With a tune, this will smoke the na 6 any day of the week.
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      01-12-2011, 08:49 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
I find it hard to believe the X5 will get a turbo 4 because the X5 has a Turbo I6 as it's base engine.
Yes, although we must remember that, before the recent LCI, the X5 did offer the same naturally aspirated N52 that the Z4 30i has today. So it is possible that BMW will reintroduce a sub-300hp gasoline model once this new 4 cyl turbo engine family arrives. However, even if they do I highly doubt such a model will be offered in the US.

Quote:
However, replacing all NA I6 engines with a turbo 4 seems very likely.
I think, with this Z4 news, that has gone from "highly likely" to basically being a forgone conclusion at this point.

The big question that remains is the timing of all of this. Which model will be the first to get the new turbo 4? F20 1 series? Z4? X1? F30 3 series? X3? Or will it be intro'd in many models at the same time?

And for that matter what will be the last naturally aspirated BMW to roll off the assembly line, and when? My guess is that the last one will be either a 528i or M3, at least for US consumption. I kind of hope it is an M3 - it would be particularly symbolic and a fitting (though saddening) end to the era of the naturally aspirated BMW.
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      01-12-2011, 11:58 AM   #34
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I'm growing tired of the better efficiency claim of turbo engines. Real world numbers are not showing this to be the case. The NA I-6 from BMW gets over 30MPG highway in many models, no worse than Audi's 2.0T. Ford's SHO with V8 power and V6 efficicnecy is getting 16-17mpg in long term tests. All the while the turbo engines are produced at a higher initial cost and a higher replacement costs to the owner. Plus BMW hasn't proved that they can reliably build a turbo yet. I think turbos are being forced into the market with the hybrids and other "green" models. I'm all for more efficient and powerful engines but I'd like the numbers to actually reflect the claims.
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      01-12-2011, 12:03 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gods_kitchen View Post
Exactly. I don't know why some of you are bashing the new engine. With a tune, this will smoke the na 6 any day of the week.
I'm not sure what you mean by "smoke" but there are positives and negatives to both types of engines.

For example, my old 135 with the JB3 was much faster in a straight line than my dad's 07 M Coupe....but it could not hold a candle to the way the ///M felt, sounded, handled, etc...and the engine in the ///M is NA....

The 23i engine has been configured for more or less BHP, depending on what BMW has wanted to accomplish...if I recall correctly, it is capable of more grunt....

Just something to think about...
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      01-12-2011, 12:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrdbym View Post
I'm growing tired of the better efficiency claim of turbo engines. Real world numbers are not showing this to be the case. The NA I-6 from BMW gets over 30MPG highway in many models, no worse than Audi's 2.0T. Ford's SHO with V8 power and V6 efficicnecy is getting 16-17mpg in long term tests. All the while the turbo engines are produced at a higher initial cost and a higher replacement costs to the owner. Plus BMW hasn't proved that they can reliably build a turbo yet. I think turbos are being forced into the market with the hybrids and other "green" models. I'm all for more efficient and powerful engines but I'd like the numbers to actually reflect the claims.
"Real world" numbers can and do show that smaller displacement turbocharged engines are capable of better fuel mileage even though HP/TQ numbers may be similar and or greater for the turbocharged engines. I'll give you an example using my car ('08 128i automatic) compared to a family members '07 VW GTI 2.0T automatic. My car makes 230 HP and 200 lb-ft. The GTI makes 260 HP and 303 lb-ft (aftermarket ECU tune being the only modification to the car). The weight of both cars are not too far off from each other. On my daily commute (70 miles roundtrip, about 50/50 mix of highway and suburban backroads) I average about 22-23 mpg at best in my car. Swapping the GTI for the same commute as I often do, I average 25-26 mpg. That's with a number of "spirited" acceleration runs both on local roads and the highway for both cars. RWD vs. FWD dynamics aside, the GTI will walk all over my 128i with the HP and TQ that the GTI is putting out, all the while averaging about 2-3 mpg better fuel economy. It's no coincidence that I chose to mention VW's 2.0T in this post because, with only an aftermarket ECU tune, it makes about 5 HP more than the NA I-6 in the base Z4 and yet it also has about 80 lb-ft more TQ, all while achieving noticeably better fuel economy.

There's a reason I'm driving a BMW and not a VW or Audi. However, and as much as I am addicted to BMW's I-6 engines, my car would be oh so sweet with VW's 2.0T under the hood and an aftermarket ECU tune!!
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      01-12-2011, 01:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gods_kitchen View Post
Exactly. I don't know why some of you are bashing the new engine. With a tune, this will smoke the na 6 any day of the week.
Its not all about speed. A 4cyl will never be as smooth or sound as good as a 6cyl.
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      01-12-2011, 01:49 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLITZ View Post
Its not all about speed. A 4cyl will never be as smooth or sound as good as a 6cyl.
+1

Now that I've driven a 6 cyl, the 4 seems too whiny, rough and underpowered.
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      01-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLITZ View Post
Its not all about speed. A 4cyl will never be as smooth or sound as good as a 6cyl.
+1

I will take a slightly slower car with no tuning potential to have a smooth and good sounding N/A I6. It will be a sad day when you can no longer buy a N/A I6.
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      01-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLITZ View Post
Its not all about speed. A 4cyl will never be as smooth or sound as good as a 6cyl.
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      01-12-2011, 02:21 PM   #41
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235 hp out of a turbo 4 banger sounds OK to me, remember VW only gets 200 hp out of their motor. The rating is better than the NA 6, and the engine will likely weigh a lot less. In the smaller cars, where there will probably be only 3 and 4 pot motors the engine bay can be 8 or 10 inches shorter allowing more interior space in a car of the same size. In these models additional weight savings are possible as the engine mounts and associated platform elements do not have to be as heavy as they would have been with an I6.

Bottom line is we are going to have to wait and see how these cars drive. I hope these new EPA fuel economy standards are not going to be like 1968 when pollution controls appeared in the US. Horsepower and fuel economy numbers fell like a rock overnight and did not recover for a long time.

Who wants to take the bus just so the Maldives does not go under water?
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      01-12-2011, 02:51 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLITZ View Post
Its not all about speed. A 4cyl will never be as smooth or sound as good as a 6cyl.
+1

But the N54 with double turbo easily can be remapped too to add another 60HP and 100Nm torque.

So why people say the engine can't be tuned properly?
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      01-12-2011, 04:10 PM   #43
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A 4 cyl turbo it s much efficient than a 6 cyl aspirated. I'll give u an example: in Europe VW & Audi sale much more cars with petrol engines (TSI/TFSI) than BMW. Here, the averrage people don t need cars with more than 200 hp, so 4 cyl and around 175 hp are enough for some good performances and also a good fuel economy. Also the taxes are much better (lower) for this kind of engines!
I'm sure that these kind of engines don t present so much interest to the North American market, but for Europe this will be a good move for BMW
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      01-12-2011, 08:20 PM   #44
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well, I drove a Mini Cooper S with 181 hp two weeks ago and thought it was dreadfully slow - I guess I am use to my wife's Z4 hotrod; however, I had a Saab 9-5 with a 235 hp 4 and it was strong. I do know that the inline 6 NA is my favorite BMW motor of all time and it will be a huge brand mistake to ditch that motor in the lineup as a whole
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