Z4 vs M3

[persian54]

I took my Z4 35i out to the track over the weekend.


I have to note that...although the Z4 is a better DD than the M...it's a POS at the track compared to the M.

Yes, in a straight line, the stock Z4 is faster than a stock e93 M3 (from the few drags I've done), and with a tune it's faster than a stock e90-93 M3, and even a slightly modded one.

But that's about it...no LSD, crappy runflats, crappy power curve, no high end power.

And although I love the N54, I reallllly hated it yesterday; really Unpredictable compared to the S65 (given that it's a FI car vs a NA car, that's completely understandable and expected, but nonetheless it didn't drive as smoothly as I'm used to).

I'm also not a fan of the gearing... 2nd is a crappy gear that made the car too unpredictable, if i hit the wrong rpm it would shoot up and I would need to make sure I didn't go off since I would end up going sideways (I turned the traction off at times), and not enough power in 3rd...

But what really bugged me the most is that the car kept cutting power (yes I know this is cause of the heat, but it's still an annoyance).

Mid session I would basically be flooring it (in 2nd or 3rd) and the car would have no power at all. Felt slower than a N52.
I would need to pull off the track and have the car cool down before I could go back again. I even did the "run your heater" method to help push the heat out of the engine bay, didn't really help at all.

I had a lot of fun though, which is the key :P

But I will never again say that a N54 equipped car (Z4 335i 135) is anything like a M. I don't care how fast it is in a drag or on the street.
It is not a track car at alllllll.
I do miss my 335i at times (though that one was heavily modded and most likely wouldn't get heat stroked like my stock Z4. But you do need to note the Z4 is like 500-600 lbs lighter..).
We recently got a new 2011 Z4 to replace this 09 that I'm returning in mid August....and I love the way it drives, but I don't think I'll track it.

At least not until it gets much cooler, and probably on a small track like Horse Thief Mile.


I just wanted to share my experiences and make a small rant and comparison :P

[Dr Stig 2]

Originally Posted by persian54

But I will never again say that a N54 equipped car (Z4 335i 135) is anything like a M. I don't care how fast it is in a drag or on the street.
It is not a track car at alllllll.

In Australia we have a saying...

No sh*t sherlock.

I would have to say though that if you track the convertible M3 (e93) then you would come to a very similar conclusion. It's not a track car that can keep up with the e93 coupe of sedan either. (it weights too much and has a bit too much body flex)

The good news is - BMW make two cars. An M3 that can be fun on the street but is awesome on the track, AND the N54 powered Z4s which are great fun everyday, and can be fun on the track too, as long as you dont try to be Sebastian Vettel and leave everyone in your wake.

When buying I compared the Z4 and e93 M3 convertible.

I chose the Z4.
For similar performance in every day driving, better looks, better economy, better interior, and $45K AUD more in my pocket. ($50K US)
No regrets here.

(And for my next track day, I have hired an M3 and will be trashing the Sh*t out of it at Phillip Island in September.
Mind you , when I go bush bashing, I hire a Toyota Landcruiser - horses for courses - literally)

[jdogg2000]

Thanks for your comparison. Interesting enough, I also have experience with the E93 M3 (my current lease) and I'm waiting for my z4 35i to come in. I also live in Woodland Hills, lol. No plans to track my z4 so I'm looking forward to the extra torque for my daily drive .

[persian54]

Originally Posted by Dr Stig 2

In Australia we have a saying...

No sh*t sherlock.

I would have to say though that if you track the convertible M3 (e93) then you would come to a very similar conclusion. It's not a track car that can keep up with the e93 coupe of sedan either. (it weights too much and has a bit too much body flex)

When buying I compared the Z4 and e93 M3 convertible.

I chose the Z4.
For similar performance in every day driving, better looks, better economy, better interior, and $45K AUD more in my pocket. ($50K US)
No regrets here.

(And for my next track day, I have hired an M3 and will be trashing the Sh*t out of it at Phillip Island in September.
Mind you , when I go bush bashing, I hire a Toyota Landcruiser - horses for courses - literally)

Actually I track my e93 M3 regularly lol


I've had 5 (or was it 6?) track days in my e93 M3 since February :P

2 days planned in August. 1 in sept, 2 in Nov.

My times are similar to that of a couple of people in e90s or e92s

I drove my friend's e90 around the track and i noticed it was better balanced.
But not enough for me to give up the convertible feature I use several times a week :P

Also, if you go to e90post, you'll see a lot of people saying a 335 is better than m3 in that it h as 400whp with a little money $ in mods and etc.
I used to be very active on e90post when i Had my 335

In regards in price, the e93 lease is about $200 more per month, and considering the car costs 20k more...not that bad for the m3 :P

[Jay Zone]

I own both and drive my Z around town far and away more often.

Its just more fun. Unless your a full-time speed freak.


JZ

[persian54]

I love the Z4, don't get me wrong

I was just disappointment with it's performance at the track.

I was able to drive slower and get smoother lines though :P

So when I go back with my m3, I should get better and better

[ridin135]

The next m3 should have the best of both worlds, really looking forward to get one.

[ZheHbKa]

M3 is hands down a better track car but Z4 is cool city cruiser

[Rac10000]

Maybe the 35is would have been a little better for the track ... the extra cooling might have helped the heat problem (I haven't heard of any heat complaints about the 1M yet, which shares the same version of the tuned N54) ... the lack of a LSD is a whole other problem though.

[skier219]

I am somewhat surprised you had to take the car to the track to realize this! Based on the street performance of the Z4, I think it should be obvious it's not a track car. Let's face it, though the Z4 is a beautiful car, it's more along the lines of a creampuff cruiser than a true hardcore sports car. Among other things, the steering and handling are just a little bit too vague for proper track use (may be due to the RFT for all I know).

I did take my previous cars (two S2000s, an STi, and a WRX) to the track. I'd say the track performance was a fair extrapolation of the street performance in terms of power, handling, and steering accuracy. What you won't notice on the street are things like tire wear, brake fade, and heat soak. Those can always be eye openers on a track day.

[persian54]

Well I did track my friends Z4 (non M e85) and it didn't get as much heat stroke :P

that is cause NA> FI lol

I tracked my Z4 in Nov last year, but it was pouring rain (and extremely cold) so I didn't notice the engine's lack of performance. Though the lack of LSD was there

I mixed 6 gallons of 100 and 6 gallons of 91; I wonder how much worse it would have been had I ran straight 91?

[SANguru]

Originally Posted by Rac10000

Maybe the 35is would have been a little better for the track ... the extra cooling might have helped the heat problem (I haven't heard of any heat complaints about the 1M yet, which shares the same version of the tuned N54) ... the lack of a LSD is a whole other problem though.

Quaife makes an LSD for the E89

http://www.birdsauto.com/quaife/mode...MW&s=Z4%20(E89)

[persian54]

Originally Posted by SANguru

Quaife makes an LSD for the E89

http://www.birdsauto.com/quaife/mode...MW&s=Z4%20(E89)

I think he was referring stock vs stock (at least that's what I'm comparing)

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

... so let us see it is a) fuel, b) temperature, c) the track .... and oh yes the driver most important the driver ...

Now I've driven a few also in my life time ... e28, e29, e46, e85, e89 then I test drove only the e93 and then made up my mind to get back into the now e92 MT the the car I now drive.

I have to conclude that the Z4's are (were in my case) wonderful cars and so was the e93 ... then if I would go to the track (and I don't) I would take the e46 or the e92 for the coupe is the only real track car of the bunch.

The ///M3 is fine tuned by a BMW Engineer (Test Driver) as you can see for yourself in this short video -----> Right here

I don't say "bunch" lightly since all of them are wonderful marvels of engineering and a lot of skill, knowhow and engineering has gone into building each and everyone of these cars ...

my 2 cents ... enjoy driving whatever you do drive

[bmwmick]

Originally Posted by persian54

Well I did track my friends Z4 (non M e85) and it didn't get as much heat stroke :P

Were you using the MaxCool feature of the JB4 or was it simply the brakes overheating? I'm surprised you can take a rental to the track and it doesn't void some agreement with BMW/NA.



Mick

[persian54]

Originally Posted by bmwmick

Were you using the MaxCool feature of the JB4 or was it simply the brakes overheating? I'm surprised you can take a rental to the track and it doesn't void some agreement with BMW/NA.



Mick

There was no JB4, car is stock.

What you mean take a rental to the track?

Whether you buy a car cash, finance a car, or lease a car, it's the same agreements.

You're allowed to drive your car on a track as long as you're not in competitive racing. However, if something breaks on the track (say you HPFP goes bad or something), then they generally do not cover it.

However, how can they prove it happened on the track?
And also, it is who you know. How do all the modded guys get warranty work done on their cars?

My friends who have supercharged M3s go to the dealer for warranty work all the time
When I had my heavily modified 335i, I had no issues with the dealer at all

[persian54]

Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter

... so let us see it is a) fuel, b) temperature, c) the track .... and oh yes the driver most important the driver ...

I'm pretty sure if you gave the N54/Z4 to an instructor he'd have more issues lol (as he'd be much faster than me)

[persian54]

Originally Posted by bmwmick

Were you using the MaxCool feature of the JB4 or was it simply the brakes overheating? I'm surprised you can take a rental to the track and it doesn't void some agreement with BMW/NA.



Mick

Regarding brakes, I only felt fade twice

I wasn't going as fast as I would have wanted to so I didn't need to be as hard on the brakes

[bmwmick]

Originally Posted by persian54

There was no JB4, car is stock.

What you mean take a rental to the track?

Whether you buy a car cash, finance a car, or lease a car, it's the same agreements.

It may all be the same to the track operators but you must have some VERY understanding dealerships.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by bmwmick

It may all be the same to the track operators but you must have some VERY understanding dealerships.

Actually, IIRC, it's in the Manual regarding tracking

But yes, I do have a couple very understanding dealerships

Service is a business.
if they denied all the cars they would be out of business

[bmwmick]

Originally Posted by persian54

Actually, IIRC, it's in the Manual regarding tracking

The only 'tracks' they mention are audio tracks.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by bmwmick

The only 'tracks' they mention are audio tracks.

I know the Z4 manual will be different than the M3

I'll look over the Z4 one again. Haven't look at it since sometime last year