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      08-18-2012, 09:53 PM   #1
Z435_2010
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What am I not getting?

Ok, my first post here, so hi everyone.

I've had my Z4 35i with m suspension, 19" 286 and DCT for almost 2 yrs now.
Have had a lot of fun, trouble free, ran a couple auto crosses.

But then, as many probably know, at around the 2-3 year mark the car fatigue sets in, you feel like trying something new. I've been reading and watching amazing reviews of the new 2013 Boxster (981), and it looks cool too, so I decided to give it a go.

The dealership here had one (but not the S) with PDK for 64k. So I took it for a spin. And here's the deal: liked it, no doubt, but was not thrilled. Granted it was not an S, but still I expected more. Now, maybe it's down to the driving style, but to me the Z feels purer somehow.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Last edited by Z435_2010; 08-22-2012 at 03:30 PM.. Reason: for brevity and typos
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      08-18-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
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After getting used to twin turbos even s will not satisfy you. No doubt boxters are great handling cars but the push is not there....
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      08-18-2012, 10:08 PM   #3
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Yeah, the high performance old-style just wasn't there. I though it was because of the base trim, no PASM and whatnot.
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      08-19-2012, 05:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
Ok, my first post here, so hi everyone.

The dealership here had one (but not the S) with PDK for 64k. So I took it for a spin. And here's the deal: liked it, no doubt, but was not thrilled. Granted it was not an S, but still I expected more. Now, maybe it's down to the driving style, but to me the Z feels purer somehow. But maybe it's just me.
IMHO, Porsche for the most part fits into the "less is more" side of the sports car world. That has been it's major drawback for many people because "less" can mean less weight but also less creature comforts such as sound deadening, less comfort, etc.

I'd be interested in what you expected from the Porsche, especially when you say the "Z feels purer".
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      08-19-2012, 06:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
IMHO, Porsche for the most part fits into the "less is more" side of the sports car world. That has been it's major drawback for many people because "less" can mean less weight but also less creature comforts such as sound deadening, less comfort, etc.
Definitely getting that; I actually like the minimalistic setup of my Z, it doesn't really have a lot of comfort options, or upgraded leather etc. If anything, the Boxster felt like the more expensive and sophisticated of the two in terms of interior (leather) and quality.

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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
I'd be interested in what you expected from the Porsche, especially when you say the "Z feels purer".
The best way I can put it is that the Boxster felt very precise, but "dead" on feel, very machinelike. With the Z I can sometimes feel how it squeaks under loads, it pushes and slides a bit, it fights back sometimes. It's a bit like it has a life of its own which comes out when you try to boss it around. The Boxster didn't give me that. Again, it's probably my driving style, or the fact that the Boxster is so much better than the Z, that it needs to be pushed farther to come alive. FWIW..
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      08-19-2012, 07:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
Definitely getting that; I actually like the minimalistic setup of my Z, it doesn't really have a lot of comfort options, or upgraded leather etc. If anything, the Boxster felt like the more expensive and sophisticated of the two in terms of interior (leather) and quality.



The best way I can put it is that the Boxster felt very precise, but "dead" on feel, very machinelike. With the Z I can sometimes feel how it squeaks under loads, it pushes and slides a bit, it fights back sometimes. It's a bit like it has a life of its own which comes out when you try to boss it around. The Boxster didn't give me that. Again, it's probably my driving style, or the fact that the Boxster is so much better than the Z, that it needs to be pushed farther to come alive. FWIW..
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
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      08-19-2012, 07:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
...or the fact that the Boxster is so much better than the Z, that it needs to be pushed farther to come alive....
Ha, ok.
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      08-19-2012, 11:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
Ok, my first post here, so hi everyone.

I've had my Z4 35i with m suspension, 19" 286 and DCT for almost 2 yrs now.
Have had a lot of fun, trouble free, ran a couple auto crosses and Mines road (those in the Bay area know what I'm talking about).

But then, as many probably know, at around the 2-3 year mark the car fatigue sets in, you feel like trying something new. I've been reading and watching amazing reviews of the new 2013 Boxster (981), and it lookscool to, so I decided to give it a go.

The dealership here had one (but not the S) with PDK for 64k. So I took it for a spin. And here's the deal: liked it, no doubt, but was not thrilled. Granted it was not an S, but still I expected more. Now, maybe it's down to the driving style, but to me the Z feels purer somehow. But maybe it's just me.

What do you guys think, anyone had a similar experience?
My similarities are only that I wanted to check out the new 981 Boxster and that got the figurative wheels turning for me...

It's been 2 years since taking delivery on my 35is, and while I've loved the car, there were a couple things that were the catalyst to make a change.
1) I never found myself loving the DCT. There is no doubt it is an amazing piece of engineering, the shifts are lightning fast, and the ability in full manual mode to hold it in a gear without it upshifting were pluses, but I found that there was a bit of a lag when in normal driving - rolling stops, or lower speed turns under light acceleration. I had the dealership check it out, and re-install the mapping, but it never really went away.
2) Along with #1, I was feeling a bit "disconnected" not driving a manual transmission. Between several motorcycles, and previously owning an M3 (and other sports cars with manual trans) there is something to be said for the interactivity that comes with a manual transmission. Now I don't blame that on the car - after all it was my choice to go with the 35is in order to get a few more horsepower and all the "M" stuff - and the 35is only came with the DCT.
3) The run-flat tires. I knew that the 19" 35 series tires would be firm, but as discussed many times here, the run-flats just ruined what little ride there was. I knew I'd be changing these out when they worn more, but with only 11,000 miles, it seemed wasteful to replace them.
4) Porsche re-designs the Boxster. Now everyone is going to have their opinion, but I feel they have finally made the Boxster a car that I could own. While I absolutely love the look of the Z4, and think it is a far better looking (not to mention more attention-getting) than the Boxster, the Porsche does (to me) feel better when driving it. It's 500 pounds lighter than the Z4, and it feels like it.

So the Zed4 was pre-traded a few days ago and the 2013 Porsche Boxster S with a 6 speed manual transmission was ordered. The build date is Sept 20th and will have it early Nov (which is perfect weather here in AZ)
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      08-19-2012, 11:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Breeze View Post
My similarities are only that I wanted to check out the new 981 Boxster and that got the figurative wheels turning for me...
...
So the Zed4 was pre-traded a few days ago and the 2013 Porsche Boxster S with a 6 speed manual transmission was ordered.
Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. Looks like I might have to check the S out, because the base is definitely not something I would consider replacing my Zigger with...
BTW, what does "pre-trade" mean? Never heard of that before. Does the dealer evaluate the car now and then uses some discounting formula for the time of the actual trade? Or did you just trade the car in and are going to use some of your other (2nd?) car until your BoxsterS comes in?
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      08-19-2012, 11:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
The best way I can put it is that the Boxster felt very precise, but "dead" on feel, very machinelike.
Not speaking from personal experience, but have read in car magazines (Top Gear, etc.) that Porsches in general tend to handle so perfectly that they lack character in that area.
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      08-19-2012, 11:43 PM   #11
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I had not heard of a "pre-trade" either, basically traded the car in now (thus saving 3 months of payments and insurance) getting a higher value on the Z4 - and drive my other car until the BoxsterS comes in.
This will be my first Porsche, after having the Z4, an SLK55 AMG, and an M3 before, so it has some decent cars to compete with.
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      08-19-2012, 11:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juhap View Post
Not speaking from personal experience, but have read in car magazines (Top Gear, etc.) that Porsches in general tend to handle so perfectly that they lack character in that area.
Thanks, I wonder if they refer to something like what I felt..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Breeze View Post
I had not heard of a "pre-trade" either, basically traded the car in now (thus saving 3 months of payments and insurance) getting a higher value on the Z4 - and drive my other car until the BoxsterS comes in.
I see, so it's just like making a prepayment.
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      08-20-2012, 07:17 AM   #13
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If you want to add a new lease of life into your 35i then go with the ESS tune, it changes the experience from great to WOW.

Michelin Pilot SS and Eibachs also transform the handling.

For a few thousand dollars you get a transformed car.

I really like the style of the new Boxster S, I just don't think it's worth the price once it's been optioned up to a reasonable spec, maybe as an AUC in a few years time.
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      08-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Z4-35i View Post
If you want to add a new lease of life into your 35i then go with the ESS tune, it changes the experience from great to WOW.

Michelin Pilot SS and Eibachs also transform the handling.

For a few thousand dollars you get a transformed car.
I actually started thinking about upgrades yesterday, following the lukewarm drive in the Boxster. I have some questions, and would appreciate if you could share your experience on those:
1) Do you recommend ESS stage 1 or 2? I only have 91 grade gas readily available where I live.
2) Does ESS cause misfire issues?
3) Are the Eibachs compatible with the adjustable M suspension?

Thanks in advance.
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      08-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-35i View Post
If you want to add a new lease of life into your 35i then go with the ESS tune, it changes the experience from great to WOW.

Michelin Pilot SS and Eibachs also transform the handling.

For a few thousand dollars you get a transformed car.

I really like the style of the new Boxster S, I just don't think it's worth the price once it's been optioned up to a reasonable spec, maybe as an AUC in a few years time.
This is exactly what I'm doing as I was almost ready to sell the Z4. My coilovers finally came in from Germany. I'm ditching the Run Flats for Michelin PSS and having the KW v3 coilovers installed this Wednesday. For cosmetic looks, I had the roof recently vinyl wrap with gloss black to create a two tone effect. Just trying to keep mine fresh. I've had the Dinan Stage 2 software and Eisenmann Race Exhaust for 2 years now and I could never go back to stock.

The only con I see about the new suspension would be the drop. I feel the Z4 is already low. That means I have to learn how to drive a lowered car going up and down driveways and humps...

If I end up liking the handling after the coilover installation, then my finally mods for next year would be an upgraded FMIC and possibly the new LED headlights coming out for LCI (if it even fits).
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      08-20-2012, 01:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
I actually started thinking about upgrades yesterday, following the lukewarm drive in the Boxster. I have some questions, and would appreciate if you could share your experience on those:
1) Do you recommend ESS stage 1 or 2? I only have 91 grade gas readily available where I live.
2) Does ESS cause misfire issues?
3) Are the Eibachs compatible with the adjustable M suspension?

Thanks in advance.
I've not had any issues to date with the ESS upgrade. I've been running stage 2 since I got the upgrade, I've not even tried stage 1 yet, I may put this on for winter when the roads aren't as forgiving. I've been running on what is classed as super unleaded in the UK which has a published rating of 99RON. I know the US system is slightly different in terms of ratings though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_V-Power

I believe the Eibachs are compatible with the M suspension, but our 35i only had the standard suspension, as we purchased it as an AUC. The ride with Michelin PSS and the Eibachs is actual better than the standard setup with the RFTs.

I would have liked to have the flexibility of the KW3s, but a local tuning firm was doing a deal for the Eibachs at the equivalent of $500 fitted with four wheel laser alignment.

I may look at the KW3s next year if funds allow, to fine tune the suspension to our UK roads.

Not had any issues so far with the front clearance, but we have the standard rather than the M Sport front bumper, so I'm not sure if that makes any difference?
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      08-20-2012, 03:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-35i View Post
I've not had any issues to date with the ESS upgrade. I've been running stage 2 since I got the upgrade, I've not even tried stage 1 yet, I may put this on for winter when the roads aren't as forgiving. I've been running on what is classed as super unleaded in the UK which has a published rating of 99RON. I know the US system is slightly different in terms of ratings though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_V-Power

I believe the Eibachs are compatible with the M suspension, but our 35i only had the standard suspension, as we purchased it as an AUC. The ride with Michelin PSS and the Eibachs is actual better than the standard setup with the RFTs.

I would have liked to have the flexibility of the KW3s, but a local tuning firm was doing a deal for the Eibachs at the equivalent of $500 fitted with four wheel laser alignment.

I may look at the KW3s next year if funds allow, to fine tune the suspension to our UK roads.

Not had any issues so far with the front clearance, but we have the standard rather than the M Sport front bumper, so I'm not sure if that makes any difference?
Thanks for sharing this. Stage 2 is definitely something I would be interested in, as Stage 1 doesn't appear to me as being worth the hassle and potential problems/warranty issues.
I understand your car has the DCT, so can I take it that the ESS tune causes no problems with shifts?
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      08-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z435_2010 View Post
I actually started thinking about upgrades yesterday, following the lukewarm drive in the Boxster. I have some questions, and would appreciate if you could share your experience on those:
1) Do you recommend ESS stage 1 or 2? I only have 91 grade gas readily available where I live.

Thanks in advance.
Any of these stations in your area for high octane?

http://www.davebarton.com/Unleaded_R...ral_and_NorCal

I have a 100 octane pump 1 mile away. ($9/gal)
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      08-20-2012, 04:38 PM   #19
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No issues with the DCT to date. The low speed changes both up and down are actually a lot smoother now and the low speed lag we previously had when accelerating in low speed traffic or at junctions is fixed with the ESS upgrade.
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      08-20-2012, 04:38 PM   #20
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I love Porsches but here is my reality:

The Z is better almost everywhere you will actually be driving except the track - even then it will be a ton of fun (trust me);

The Boxster is awesome when truly pushed, especially on a track, but it will be less fun (no turbos, feeling like less useable power) almost everywhere unless you load out an S (PDK, PASM+, chrono, etc.) and then you are looking at $75k+ with still less torque than the Z.

Plus, I still think the Z is better looking at every angle except maybe a tie at the rear.

So, I have hit the point in my life (in my early 40s) where I buy things for what I actually do instead of what I dream of doing some day (i.e. "track days" maybe once every few years). I have even stopped reading car reviews by jack-legs that only ever measure a cars performance with a gps, lasers, and driving them at the limits on media track days. If this were a daily or regular driver choice - get the Z; if you want this as a spare car that you push out in remote mountain roads or on the track regularly, get the Porsche Boxster S.

A friendly suggestion, before you sell the Z, and there is nothing wrong with that, consider shodding it with the new Michelin PSS as it will reinvigorate your love for the car.

And, I will go drive the new Boxster and 911 this week. Maybe I should stay away from the 911 because that new 7MT is sucking me in - a stripper 911 would be fine.
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      08-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4-35i View Post
No issues with the DCT to date. The low speed changes both up and down are actually a lot smoother now and the low speed lag we previously had when accelerating in low speed traffic or at junctions is fixed with the ESS upgrade.
Thanks! Great information. I am getting closer to pulling the trigger on the ESS upgrade..

Quote:
Originally Posted by z4z4z4 View Post
Any of these stations in your area for high octane?
http://www.davebarton.com/Unleaded_R...ral_and_NorCal
Redwood City is the closest one (about 40 miles away).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage View Post
I love Porsches but here is my reality:

The Z is better almost everywhere you will actually be driving except the track - even then it will be a ton of fun (trust me);

The Boxster is awesome when truly pushed, especially on a track, but it will be less fun (no turbos, feeling like less useable power) almost everywhere unless you load out an S (PDK, PASM+, chrono, etc.) and then you are looking at $75k+ with still less torque than the Z.

Plus, I still think the Z is better looking at every angle except maybe a tie at the rear.

..

A friendly suggestion, before you sell the Z, and there is nothing wrong with that, consider shodding it with the new Michelin PSS as it will reinvigorate your love for the car.
I am pretty sure this is exactly what I will be doing: keeping the Z and doing a couple of upgrades. I still love it! Just wanted to see what the Boxster euphoria was all about.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Last edited by Z435_2010; 08-20-2012 at 06:51 PM..
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      08-21-2012, 11:17 AM   #22
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Have had the 35is for 2 years now. No way I would trade this for a Boxster based on the driving I do. I imagine as others have said, boxster really only wins out pushed hard on the track. I drove the Z at sebring and it was more than enough fun. I switched out the terrible RFTs for Conti Extreme DWS tires in bigger sizes which helps a bunch. My lease is up in May 2013, probably keep this car, although next gen M3/4 might be too tempting.
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