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      09-28-2010, 11:00 AM   #23
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We have had the improvements on the car for about 5,000 miles and not one lick of trouble until last Sunday. Then it appears the HPFP is not cooperating.
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      09-28-2010, 02:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by VintageBMW View Post
DEALER JUST CALLED: it appears they are refusing to even diagnose the problem because it has a FMIC installed. Actually it is not the dealer yet, it seems to be an instruction from BMWNA. This may get very interesting soon.

Maybe it is pay back for them crashing my wife's car in port and not telling us, and then me forcing them to swap us for an undamaged Z4? Well, I will hope for the best. As I told my dealer, "just diagnose the problem and then we will discuss who pays for the repair." They, said "no." Good times.
I hate that mentality. Especially when it likely involves a known defective part. I had a knock down drag out fight with a Ford dealer regarding my Lightning launching spark plugs out of the heads. I ended up winning but it ended up costing me more to "win" than if I would have bought new heads and fixed it myself.
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      09-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #25
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Years ago a friend of mine who was a VP at a major brokerage firm gave me some advice avter dealing with a warranty issue on his new vehicle. He said "don't p*ss around with locals, go as far up the ladder as you can get and call them .... at home. Senior mgmt don't like being bothered with "small" problems so they the tend to get after the underlings to take care of them in a hurry.
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      09-28-2010, 03:54 PM   #26
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SOME PROGRESS: the problem has now been diagnosed, and YES, it is the HPFP. Now, they are running it up the BMWNA flagpole to see if it is a warranted item due to my modifications. Before going crazy and disparaging BMW, I will withhold judgment and hope the correct outcome is achieved. After all, I knew when these mods were made that it might cause some trouble.

They sent me the BMW Technical Bulletin on performance modifications for the N54. I will try to scan it and post as it is interesting reading. In short, it says that if your power modifications break the car, it is no longer warranted. The discussion is in the context of driveline components and particularly the turbos and transmission. BMW is concerned about the higher turbo temps with boosting power (and shredding the tranny). IRONICALLY, it is the FMIC on our car that keeps the turbos cool and avoids the higher operating temperatures that come with any tune and the resulting power increase.
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      09-28-2010, 04:02 PM   #27
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I'd like to read that for sure, being that I have Dinan Stage II in my Z4 and it has full warranty AND was sold and installed at the BMW dealership, by the BMW techs.
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      09-28-2010, 04:29 PM   #28
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I've never heard of anyone having warranty issues with a Dinan mod. Even if the Dinan mod causes the failure, Dinan fully backs the original waranty.
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Originally Posted by mcbeee View Post
I'd like to read that for sure, being that I have Dinan Stage II in my Z4 and it has full warranty AND was sold and installed at the BMW dealership, by the BMW techs.
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      09-28-2010, 06:13 PM   #29
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I'm not worried about the Dinan, I'm more interested in what BMW has to say re the boost etc from other "competitors". I have 27000kms on it with over 17000kms on Stage II with nothing but praise for it...

I bought the Dinan because it was a total package of reprogramming rather than just a turbo boost AND it was warrantied.
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      09-28-2010, 06:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by VintageBMW View Post
SOME PROGRESS: the problem has now been diagnosed, and YES, it is the HPFP. Now, they are running it up the BMWNA flagpole to see if it is a warranted item due to my modifications. Before going crazy and disparaging BMW, I will withhold judgment and hope the correct outcome is achieved. After all, I knew when these mods were made that it might cause some trouble.

They sent me the BMW Technical Bulletin on performance modifications for the N54. I will try to scan it and post as it is interesting reading. In short, it says that if your power modifications break the car, it is no longer warranted. The discussion is in the context of driveline components and particularly the turbos and transmission. BMW is concerned about the higher turbo temps with boosting power (and shredding the tranny). IRONICALLY, it is the FMIC on our car that keeps the turbos cool and avoids the higher operating temperatures that come with any tune and the resulting power increase.
They may look at your FMIC as an increase in boost. A cooler denser air charge produces more power.
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      09-28-2010, 09:21 PM   #31
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No, don't be fooled by dealer talk. The HPFP failures have NOTHING to do with ANY mods you make to your cars. Forum members have experienced HPFP failures anywhere from 1200 miles to 20000 miles with or without mods.
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      09-29-2010, 08:06 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
No, don't be fooled by dealer talk. The HPFP failures have NOTHING to do with ANY mods you make to your cars. Forum members have experienced HPFP failures anywhere from 1200 miles to 20000 miles with or without mods.
Do not worry, I am not fooled by the dealer or BMWNA on this issue. The question is, do they think I am a fool?
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      09-29-2010, 10:00 AM   #33
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Good point! Let's hope they do the right thing.
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      09-29-2010, 12:13 PM   #34
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It is this very forum that allows hundreds of Z4 owners to communicate and share/compare the experiences we have with the dealers.

The dealer is ignorant if they think that in this day and age they can deny warranty work in a situation where we ALL know another dealer honored it, because the info is posted on THIS forum.

Do they really think us Z4 owners don't all talk to each other?

In the past I've had to remind dealerships of the magic of the Internet,and what an advantage it is for us car owners.
The days of dealers making up their own answers and assuming the car owner won't know any better, are long over. The dealers sometimes need to be reminded of that.
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      09-29-2010, 12:27 PM   #35
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It is this very forum that allows hundreds of Z4 owners to communicate and share/compare the experiences we have with the dealers.

The dealer is ignorant if they think that in this day and age they can deny warranty work in a situation where we ALL know another dealer honored it, because the info is posted on THIS forum.

Do they really think us Z4 owners don't all talk to each other?

In the past I've had to remind dealerships of the magic of the Internet,and what an advantage it is for us car owners.
The days of dealers making up their own answers and assuming the car owner won't know any better, are long over. The dealers sometimes need to be reminded of that.
Blue I agree 100%. However the main problem with dealers is they are independantly owned and have the right to refuse service as they see fit. Voiding a warranty is a whole different issue. Why a dealer would automatically refuse to diagnose without even seeing the car is a mystery to me. Not wanting to deal with non-factory parts is likely the culprit. With factory parts if they happen to damage a part during repair it is very easy for them to replace. Aftermarket parts they are at the mercy of the part manufacturer and could lose a substantial amount of money should a part be damaged.
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      09-29-2010, 01:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver-Bolt View Post
Not wanting to deal with non-factory parts is likely the culprit. With factory parts if they happen to damage a part during repair it is very easy for them to replace. Aftermarket parts they are at the mercy of the part manufacturer and could lose a substantial amount of money should a part be damaged.
I would have DEFINITELY purchased a factory "power kit" and "exhaust" but they are NOT offered by BMW for the e89 (ridiculous considering the new iS version and the power kit for the 335!!! This is something I have complained about loudly and often but to no avail; so, BMW forced me to look elsewhere and now may try to punish me for it. Make no mistake, this is not just a local dealer issue as it is now sitting on BMWNA's desk to make the call.

Frankly, at this point I am thinking I should have just bought my wife an M3 coupe, thrown the Akropovic titanium exhaust on it and been done with it, but I am a happily married man so I purchased what she wanted - a Z4. It is a great car but jeeze . . .
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      09-29-2010, 06:31 PM   #37
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Whilst I feel for Vintage, this is a good warning to everyone:

REMOVE ALL MODS BEFORE going into the dealer for a service etc. Having read the other N54 forums, BMWNA are really nitpicking over mods to the N54-engined cars. Especially over the HPFP issue. I read a while ago a poster dismissing the HPFP issue as minor these days, but it really doesnt seem that minor and BMW are looking for anything as a scapegoat if you have the problem - ie: any power-enhancing mods! Don't give them an excuse.

Also purchasing a BT tool if you have a JB3 etc to clear related codes is a good idea too. You don't want BMW to use these codes to invalidate any warranty on future engine-related issues you may have.

And Silverbullet is correct, the FMIC will basically allow more power output due to better cooling and better flow than the stock IC.

HPFP failures have happened on many stock cars, so *we* know it's not your mods...but BMWNA...

Goodluck Vintage anyway with your case.
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      09-29-2010, 08:11 PM   #38
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When the Ford Lightning came out (99-04) Ford actually had moles on the two major Lightning forums. Every lightning made had a build number assigned and many users added that number to their online signature. In that signature was also a list of mods done to their trucks. It did not take Ford long to put 2 & 2 together and void warranties when known modded trucks went in for service. Many fought but very few won that battle.

Don't be surprised if BMWNA has people visiting forums looking for clues. Any reason to not pay a warranty claim is a good one to them. With my STi Subaru USA was actually good. As long as you stayed wit the stock turbo they rarely blinked an eye.
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      09-29-2010, 08:51 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver-Bolt View Post
Don't be surprised if BMWNA has people visiting forums looking for clues.
We know for a fact that a BMWNA rep frequents these boards as he has offered to provide assistance.

Here's an example.
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...51&postcount=7

I always thought it was pretty cool that BMW was willing to have a resource chime in and provide some level of assistance. However, there's no reason to assume he doesn't make note of other conversations as well regarding mods.
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      09-30-2010, 08:33 AM   #40
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Three things:

1. I accept complete responsibility for any "damage" caused by my wife's mods to the e89 and I will sign an affidavit stating so, BUT the HPFP was not damaged by these mods so fix it dangit! I mean seriously, are they now going to balk on the HPFP because of the power mods? I guess the answer at this time is "maybe" - that is really pathetic. Buy an iS and do not touch it for goodness sake, not even to install an exhaust system.

2. If BMW rejects the warranty on a known defect with the defectively designed HPFP, I will not go away; then "lawyer Vintage" comes out.

3. If 2 above occurs, I will sell the e89 at a loss immediately, buy my wife a Porsche 911S, and then start haunting this forum to bash BMWs at every opportunity even though I am a BMW lifer - that will change if BMW continues down this myopic path. I am thinking 911S Copue or Cabriolet, PDK, Sport PASM, Sport Exhaust (from Porsche), Bose upgrade, Ventilated and Heated Seats, etc. What color combination?
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      09-30-2010, 08:58 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by teagueAMX View Post
The engine should not "crank" for more than a few seconds even if has sat unused for a while. Electronic fuel injection systems are fully pressurized, not like the old carburetor systems that needed a little extra gas if unused for a while: this is particularly true of direct injection systems. Hence the designation - HPFP.
Does the low pressure in tank fuel pump not pressurize the fuel system including the high pressure fuel pump the moment we press the start? or is the fuel system always pressurized?

If it is always pressurized, what if there is a system leak (let us say around the LPFP in the tank) would that not give a system alarm?
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      09-30-2010, 09:14 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
Does the low pressure in tank fuel pump not pressurize the fuel system including the high pressure fuel pump the moment we press the start? or is the fuel system always pressurized?

If it is always pressurized, what if there is a system leak (let us say around the LPFP in the tank) would that not give a system alarm?
Q 1
Yes, the LPFP pressurizes the line leading up to the HPFP. The LPFP, of course, is an electric pump. As soon at the ignition system is energized "hot" the LPFP starts and pressurizes the line. As soon as the line reaches a certain pressure (around 40 - 50 psi min) it will trip a pressure relay that completes the ignition circuit and the car can start assuming everything else is in order.

A HPFP adds one more layer - it has to build up and maintain a set pressure as well. This is where the long crank times come in - it appears the computer will allow the engine to crank even though there is insufficient pressure at either the LPFP or HPFP levels.

Q 2
Can't tell you for absolute certainty, but I believe a problem in the area would trigger a ECU code and "Check Engine" warning light.

.
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      09-30-2010, 09:22 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageBMW View Post
Three things:

1. I accept complete responsibility for any "damage" caused by my wife's mods to the e89 and I will sign an affidavit stating so, BUT the HPFP was not damaged by these mods so fix it dangit! I mean seriously, are they now going to balk on the HPFP because of the power mods? I guess the answer at this time is "maybe" - that is really pathetic. Buy an iS and do not touch it for goodness sake, not even to install an exhaust system.

2. If BMW rejects the warranty on a known defect with the defectively designed HPFP, I will not go away; then "lawyer Vintage" comes out.

3. If 2 above occurs, I will sell the e89 at a loss immediately, buy my wife a Porsche 911S, and then start haunting this forum to bash BMWs at every opportunity even though I am a BMW lifer - that will change if BMW continues down this myopic path. I am thinking 911S Copue or Cabriolet, PDK, Sport PASM, Sport Exhaust (from Porsche), Bose upgrade, Ventilated and Heated Seats, etc. What color combination?
Let's hope BMW comes to its senses on this issue.
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      09-30-2010, 09:41 AM   #44
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Devils advocate: Although a great number of forum members love modding their vehicles I have always thought to myself that it is not a good idea to mod anything until after the warranty expires. Bearing this in mind I do have Dinan in my new car, specifically because it has warranty and was installed and sold to me by BMW. I dismissed all other power mods because of this advantage, otherwise I would have waited until the end date to do anything.
The cars are designed by the "company" and the "company" warranties that specific design.....
EG:If I take an electrical junction box that has been inspected and certified for use in a Hazardous location such as a hydrocarbon gas rich environment and drill and tap an access hole in that same box, I now have an uncertified box. I can either get the box recertified or I can accept the LIABILITY for any failures, damage or asset losses that may occur in or around that box. I'm sorry to say it but that's just the way it is.

I wish you the best of luck with this issue .
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